The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Freeza on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:23 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:Yea I don't know why Zaza does this.

No need really.


Because he's a no talent hack who only gets to stay in the league being a cheat.


Look at all these incidents Laughing

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/806im3/a_few_of_zazas_past_incidents_you_decide/?st=JE36ME40&sh=9f31913e

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by CBarca on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:32 pm

Rondo is a dick and acts like it on the floor too, but he's never really been a dirty player

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:46 pm

Down 17 in Milwaukee, dominated Giannis in every statistical department other than assists without his 2nd best player and still wins.

I never want to hear Giannis is better than AD again.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by CBarca on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:05 pm

At most I can give you they're at a similar level right now with Giannis having a higher ceiling.

It's just the truth. If you look at their stats right now they're almost identical between the two, with the rebounding edge going to Davis (as expected) and the assists edge going to Giannis (as expected). Meanwhile, Giannis is younger, came in much more raw and is improving every single year at a faster rate than Davis. He also plays a more flexible position for the Bucks where he should be able to do a lot more in terms of playmaking than Davis will ever be able to.

"Dominated Giannis"

27-13-1 vs 20-4-6 are really not that different of stat lines when you take into account that Davis had to take 8 more shots to get his 7 more points and played more minutes. They equaled in steals while Davis had a pair of blocks.

Honestly, I'm surprised Davis didn't do more in this game. You do realize he was going against two of the weakest centers in the league right? Jokic literally feasted on Bucks centers, getting a triple double in like 14 minutes or something and putting up 36.

This is all taking your claims that one game literally decides absolutely everything about these two players when it doesn't. Especially considering Bucks just went to OT and won a couple days ago in Toronto before having to come back and play in another OT game.

We gonna talk about how Jrue is the best player in the league now too? Dude just put up 36-9-6 and you're out here talking about how great AD is. Show some respect lmao

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:07 pm

I don't see a case for him defensively either.

The only case he has is ball handling and passing, there's nothing else where he's better.

He maybe one day but right now I really don't see it. Everytime someone says it I just get the feeling it's a case of the hot new young star.

Saw people doing the same with Towns this season and AD has had more 40 games this month than he has in his career.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 pm

They are not on a similar level lol.

AD is better defensively, he's a better finisher around the rim, he's better at creating his own shot, he's better in the post, he has a better shot all over the floor including 37% from 3 this year, better rim protector and I could go on.

Only areas Giannis has him beat is playmaking and ball handling but Nikola Jokic beats him there too so I suppose he's better too.

As for tonight, we came back from down 17 in your house and he was better than Giannis in pretty much every department.

It's just a stupid argument with no validity.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Also the OT excuse is dumb AF considering we just came from our own OT game and at least you were at home.

Plus nobody has played as many OT games as us, hell we've played enough OT games to translate into an extra full game lmao.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by CBarca on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:22 pm

Imagine calling Giannis a "hot new young star"

Decided to start dominating last year, is second in scoring this year and had the greatest in game dunk of the last 5 years a couple weeks ago. All of this while he's still developing a jumper (reliable midrange now) and has been underneath Jason Kidd and an interim coach. While missing his second best player for about two years, also.

Honest to god I see why Freeza has fits talking to you. The haterade is strong.

I like Davis, he's one of my favorite players. It's not a slight to say that him and Giannis are pretty much even at the moment. Stop taking it like one. You're incredibly dense.

Stop using singular, anecdotal evidence like it means anything. It's so *bleep* easy, look at the stats. Look at the advanced stats. They're very similar for AD and Giannis. You're wrong. They are absolutely on a very similar level and that's not a slight on AD, and I'm pretty sure almost all NBA watchers would agree with this. If you want to debate who has a higher ceiling (it's Giannis lmao) go ahead but I'm not really interested in talking to someone who can't keep the conversation grounded. It's like talking to Freeza about the lakers

You don't have to denigrate Giannis to up AD. I don't know why you think that. Going off making 3 posts in a row because of some perceived slight

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Luca on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:25 pm

I actually find it unreal the disrespect AD gets, he puts up some of the most dominant stat lines the league has ever seen

With that being said, Giannis improves season after season, and has more athleticism. Their averages, this season, are quite similar but I think Anthony Davis has a more polished offensive game

Either way, they're 1A and 1B for PFs for me in this league
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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:42 pm

I don't hate him at all, he's just being placed on a pedestal he hasn't earned yet.

Same thing happened with Towns, I gave the reasons why he's not on AD's level and I feel like other than defensively none of them are even close to debatable.

Hating would be blindly trolling without giving reasons why, in fact you are the one who is doing that calling me offensive things for no real reason.

While I never said anything personal and just gave legitimate reasons for my argument.

Instead of telling me why I'm wrong because you say so how about judging each players skillset like I did and tell me why exactly I'm wrong that AD is ahead in a lot more categories of play in basketball than Giannis is.

I'll admit I used this game as an example tbh but it's something I have felt for a long time.

Also tell me why he has a higher ceiling please I'm really intrigued, because he has better ball handling and playmaking skills?

Because that's nowhere near enough, that's like saying Simmons has a higher ceiling than Embiid because he has better playmaking and passing skills.

It's a very short sighted view point tbh, oh and BTW the whole Giannis is improving at a faster rate is incredibly incorrect.

Davis was performing at a level in his 2nd or 3rd season which is among the highest for individual seasons ever which has been forgotten because our team has mainly sucked and bad market.


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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by CBarca on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:48 am

How has he not earned his pedestal among the best PF's in the league (not really a true PF like Davis, can really play PF, SF or PG)?

Towns shouldn't be in this discussion. Towns is different from Davis and different from Giannis. Anyone who said Towns was as good as AD is an idiot, I've always felt that. Giannis is a completely different story. Towns has never had Giannis's defense, athleticism, or numbers.

And nah it is hating, because you're not using your brain. What is the argument?

The argument is that AD and Giannis are at a similar level. I said they are, why? Look at the *bleep* stats, look at the advanced stats, look at how the teams are doing (same record). They're effectively the same besides, like I said, the obvious differences (more boards for Davis, more assists for Giannis). This is the best way to objectively look at their seasons and how each of them are doing.

It's your job to convince me that those stats must be painting a highly distorted picture because as it stands the objective, quantifiable measures indicate that they're playing at a similar level right now. The burden of proof is on you to illustrate why those statistics must be off.


Here are the stats side by side.

To your credit, you seem to have gone for the arguments about their base skills. This would be ok if Giannis and AD played the same position, but they don't, and they both occupy much different areas on their teams. As such, they're going to have different skillsets that you could argue either way.

AD is better at rim protection? No shit, that's more of his thing than Giannis. Giannis is also a better perimeter defender (no shit). Giannis is better at playmaking? Of course he is, he runs point from time to time and is a primary ball handler on the team (especially when Bucks are running dangerously low on guards like right now). Giannis is better at driving, Davis has a better pull up. For every point you come up with, I bet I could have a counter point. This is why this is a flawed argument.

AND even if Anthony Davis was a player who, judging a player by a list of skillsets, came out on top, that doesn't factor in how good at each skillset that person is. For example, for the University of Wisconsin, Ethan Happ is a player who cannot make a jumpshot. He can't score outside the paint. However, he's still recognized as one of the best players in the Big Ten and indeed the nation because his footwork and finishing inside is immaculate. He's a magician inside the paint. Objectively many, many worse centers have a more well rounded, better skillset than Ethan Happ, but he's so good inside the paint that it doesn't really matter.

They're different players with different positions on their teams. They both do different things. That's why it's dumb to compare a player like Steph with a player like Bradley Beal in an argument about their skillsets. However, we could still probably make a decent argument about who is better based on their statistics. It woudln't tell the full story, but it's the best argument we have, and you can easily tell that Steph is a better player than Beal based on those statistics.

The argument you want to engage in is flawed. Your contention is outrageous and ridiculous from the outset. Don't claim that I'm the one who isn't engaging in a proper discussion because I already have, I just want to engage in discussion that is coherent. Not some back and forth about "skillsets" like that means anything at all

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:54 am

I mean I mentioned every possible skillset imagineable for a basketball player Laughing

AD undoubtedly comes out on top in the large majority of them, the only ones he doesn't is playmaking and overall ball handling.

I said this already and you promptly ignored it but he's a better finisher around the rim, he's better at creating his own shot, he's got a better shot all over the floor be it the 3 pt line, mid range and he's better out of the post.

But all of this meaningless anyway apparently...

Defensively I think he's better but it's one I'm willing to accept it's one which is debatable although I personally think both are overrated here.

Also stats for most of the season are misleading tbh, what we have to realise is AD has been sharing with Cousins all season.

If Giannis played with someone like that his numbers wouldn't be as high either, just to prove the point AD is averaging like 40 and 10 since Cousins went down lol.

That isn't sustainable of course but it makes the point that comparing stats isn't fair when debating two players in two very different situations.

Where as debating their skills sets are and quite frankly I don't see how anyone could see Giannis has the edge in the large majority of situations.

Also when I say he hasn't earned it yet I mean he hasn't earned being considered better than AD for all the reasons I've mentioned.

But none of it matters apparently, none of it matters that AD is better in every offensive part of the game except playmaking and ball handling and defensively it's debatable.

You realise how stupid that sounds? also laughable you accuse me of not engaging in proper discussion when before that post I was the only one actually giving legitimate reasons for my argument where as you were resorting to calling me names (which I still haven't resorted to) and claimed Giannis was better or comparable without giving any reasons why.

But I'm the one who wasn't giving legitimate discussion, that's rich...


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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by CBarca on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:21 am

Because I don't think your means of discussion are proper.

You think the basis of my argument is not sound, I don't think yours is. We can leave it there. I would rather judge on statistics, you would rather on skillsets, which doesn't make sense for players who are completely different. Again, I invoke imagery of a discussion of Steph Curry vs Bradley Beal's skillsets. It's useless.

I sent some stats that show that they're really close (actually I've been giving AD a lot more credit than Giannis on boards which is objectively not really true, they're similar and so are their rebounding rates). Here are some more advanced stats that say roughly the same thing (Giannis edges AD in these overall but very close).

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

This isn't football. I'd be more willing to throw statistics out the window and talk about skillsets and what players offer a team on the eye test in football. Basketball has a lot more statistics and a lot more relevant statistics. You can paint a picture.

Every picture you can paint shows that Giannis and AD are performing at very high, very similar levels right now. If you want to ignore all of that objective, quantifiable evidence, that's your choice.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Freeza on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:03 am

The Giannis disrespect lol.
I’d pick him over AD in a heartbeat tbh.
Better passer, perimeter defender, more athletic and has more potential. Mole showing real disrespect.

They’re both incredible talents, and acting like there’s much difference at the current point seems weird. Only reason I’d take Giannis is because he’s still doing the same level while being more raw and having more athleticism. AD looks too doughy.

Can’t wait to see Brandon Ingram and another long armed Star join this discussion. Maybe Mo Bamba.

Also don’t disrespect Towns. If he fixes his defense he’s up there. His offense is ridiculous despite him looking like a cripple when running.

He’s also by far the best clutch scorer in the league. He’s shooting 32 for 49 (65%) in clutch situations this year. It’s god damn incredible. Impossible to stop him.

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:20 pm

If anything i'd argue you are disrespecting AD tbh, years performing at this level compared to not even one season.

Also the things you named that he's better at...

one is highly debatable and the other is conjecture, potential means *bleep* all. People spoke about AD in his 2nd and 3rd season and said he'd surpass Durant and Lebron within 2 years.

Guess what it didn't happen. Also CB i don't get what isn't proper about it? i'm discussing superior skills, yes their numbers are similar ( for reasons i've already explained) but their impact across various different aspects of the game quite frankly isn't. It maybe one day but right now it's not.

It's quite a laughable standpoint tbh, because if Giannis was superior shooter from all distances, superior at creating his own offence, superior at finishing around the rim, superior at protecting the rim i guarantee you wouldn't consider it pointless or improper.

Both of you are flat out ignoring all the things AD does better and mentioning the 2 or 3 things Giannis is better at.

Every single single response you mention 3 or 4 at MOST things Giannis is better at while i'm mentioning 7 or 8 things lol.

Yet i'm suppose to believe he's better because his numbers are similar, oh btw i don't agree he's a better perimeter defender either.

Giannis was regularly being beaten off the dribble by Jrue and Rondo last night and i bet if i bothered i could show better examples in other games, AD consistently defends BOTH guys in the pick and roll at a high rate only reason he doesn't get more credit is because Jrue aside our perimeter D is absolutely *bleep* terrible.

As i said in a previous post though, i think both guys are overrated defenders. People assume they are great because they are super athletic, but it's really not the case.

It's what i like to call the MVP Derrick Rose syndrome, people assume they are great defenders because they are super athletic but it's really not the case.

Also just prove the original point that this is the case of people loving to crown the new young player before he's king.

Giannis best season before this year was last year when he averaged 22 points a game, something Davis is AVERAGING for his career and done it 4 times over.

Whether you like it or not you are absolutely hyping up the new young star as the stats prove.

Oh and BTW AD has only had one more season in the NBA than Giannis and performed at a top 10 player in the league level for like 4 seasons now.

Yet i'm supposed to believe Giannis has earned this pedastal you guys are placing him on after 6 months...

Right....

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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Luca on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:22 pm

justice for mole
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Re: The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Anyway on to more positive things, if we beat Phoenix tonight we go up to the 5th seed :bow:

Which no doubt means Booker is going to score 82 points hmm



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