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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:37 am

I am mire excited about ZZ coming back than I am of us getting all these WC players out there

He'll get rid of Bale for us. We'll never lose like we did vs Ajax no matter how shite we've been in the season

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:40 pm

So, Zidane is the solution then? He's what we've been missing this season?

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Post by The Madrid One on Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:58 pm

I'll leave my two cents about our situation.

The field i work in requires me to lead people and get results (which gives me perspective), and clearly; Lopetegui, Solari, and the board have failed to create the proper work environment.

You see how much the media likes to sensationalize things just because Marcelo and Isco get benched? If that kind of walking over eggshells is happening behind close doors as well then that's a symptom that the ecosystem the board has established is a fucking joke. But most of us already knew that.

Shit like the Instagram post by Marcelo's wife, and Isco and Bale's public frustration, is unacceptable and juvenile. Hope they all leave, they've "jumped the shark."

Zidane should stay away unless they give him the power he needs. We can only hope Perez' continued stupidity catches up to him french revolution style.

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Post by Thimmy on Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:22 pm

I don't believe bringing back Zidane would amount to any substantial upturn in form, without actually fixing some of our personell issues first. Then again, I'd love to read the banter when the naïve hopefulness of him returning to make all problems go away, instead results in him becoming scapegoat #3. I do wish it was that simple, though.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:18 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:I am mire excited about ZZ coming back  than I am of us getting all these WC players out there

He'll get rid of Bale for us. We'll never lose like we did vs Ajax no matter how shite we've been in the season

Totally opposite for me. I love Zidane, but he was smart enough to know he wasn't going to be able to motivate the current crop of players. He saw the writing on the wall. Him coming back would put us almost the same situation as this current season (lack of motivation, lack of new ideas, and need for new blood) if he is not given the power to reinforce.  

This could be an opportunity for him to rebuild the squad in his image, and to me that is the most exciting prospect. It's clear now that Perez and the new stadium were the reason for lack of spending, and not necessarily Zidane being stubborn with player selection. If ZZ comes back he will only come back with assurances to change the squad.

Jokes aside about the french revolution post I made earlier- it would be really fascinating to see a Zidane coached team with the possibility of something like this (Note- this is pure fantasy/ speculation):

First Team:
Courtois
Carvajal Varane Ramos Mendy
Ndombele/Casemiro
Aouar Kroos
Isco
New ST(Jovic?) Hazard

Second team:
Navas
Odri Militao Nacho Regui
Ndombele/Casemiro
Ceballos Fede
Asensio Benzema Vinicius

What names would you imagine being brought in if ZZ comes back with massive buying power? What ever he does (if this even happens), I would like him to have the squad he needs in order to rotate like the heavy rotation we saw in his first season.
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Post by Doc on Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:24 pm

Mendy and Ndombele would really be great signings and @farfan won't feel too bad seeing his Lyon boys at Madrid. Also, those two names I just wrote are pretty much realistic signings and I would like as well. Hazard is gonna happen, can't dodge that one. Excellent winger so I won't mind. But forward position is a real situation that I'm not sure if we'll solve easily.

A whole lot of Madrid fans want them some Mbappe and Neymar without realising they are at PSG and that is a prison of gold. No way we can get either of them (to which, I would love if we do). Then there is Jovic, Werner and their ilk. Forwards that you could tell would be great but you have doubts if they'll be great here. Then there is Icardi and Kane, one belongs to the world of stupidity and the other belongs to the world of Levy. Do you wanna negotiate to a complete dodo bird or do you we negotiate with the devil?

We also need a new CB as poor Vallejo just not shaking off those injuries. Poor fella. And quiet as it's being kept, Carvajal has been bad and has been bad for a while. I think either give Odri a proper run out/straight up sold or the club invests in a new RB. Yes, I'm saying Dani should be replaced, I don't think he is gonna get any better.

All this is obviously just talk if Zidane (or whomever) does not get to rebuild the squad as, contrary to what Nick keeps saying, the squad does need rebuilding. At least to what the manager needs.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:14 pm

Just to add my 2 cents. First off, I agree Zidane is best choice at this point, but only if he wants and is given much more control of rebuilding.

I like Deez’s proposed lineup with a couple of exceptions, I think Llorente has shown enough to be given a fair opportunity. Secondly, I think it more likely Ericksen to replace Modric, plus I have some doubts about Kroos remaining.
Next, I doubt if Navas will remain. And lastly, I agree with Doc re biggest need to a new 9, plus I assume Benzema will be gone as well.

Edit: we also have to assume that Rodrygo will factor in next year’s team at some point. Maybe he will be the 25th players to start. I assume Lucas will be #23 and practice portero # 24
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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:02 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:@futbol bill, check the wires again, he said Zidane did not accept right away and said he would answer in June as well.


Nick, I know you like to belittle every piece of news I post, but this time I think you got your facts wrong!

I saw the Calderon interview and he said Zidane was offered and he rejected it. The line about wait until June was not in that interview! So maybe you should be the one to recheck your wires again!

Besides Calderon isn’t to be believed on anything he says. He has no credibility and just says things to stir shit up for Perez.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Vandeez the problem with the squad you posted is that you will rely too much on the CF to score goals for you, that will be a disaster imo. Hazard is not a goalscorer, Isco is not a goalscorer. Sometimes players with big shots is what you need.

I would go 4231 with Hazard at number 10. Something like

Courtois
Carbajal Varane Ramos Mendy/Sandro
Ndombele Rabiot/Kante
NicolasPepe Hazard Vinicius
Jovic/Icardi

You need goals left right and center or at least players who can score goals everywhere in attack. Also counting on Vini to get a lot better.



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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:57 pm

I agree, we would need more goals in that lineup, I was just speculating on players I could see Zidane going for. Jovic would be much more likely imo than an Icardi type player if Zidane is building the squad.

Even then, I think ST is the most difficult position to speculate on for a Zidane team. I know how he likes to set up his defense and midfield- attack he has kinda struggled, and now without Ronaldo it would be even more of a mystery. The only certainty would be Hazard who Zidane has been a huge fan of.

Maybe an attack of Nicolas Pepe - Jovic - Hazard would work with Vinicius being first off the bench and rotating with Pepe. I could see that actually. Might not be enough, but is certainly more cohesive on paper than our attack this season.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:41 am

i dont want Vinicius to go on the bench, he is too good, and he as proven too much to sit down now imo. If anything, i feel like he will benefit from not being the only player who can create in 1v1. that's why i proposed a 4231, if you sign Hazard, both need to play.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:36 am

Honestly haven't seen any of Hazard in the middle in a 4-2-3-1 so I can't really speak to his effectiveness there, but I know he is very effective on the wing. I think time will have to tell if 4-2-3-1 could work for that personnel set up with Zidane in charge because there are just too many question marks for me. Does Zidane want to play that formation? He has almost exclusively played a 4-3-3 or a Zidiamond if my memory is correct. And is Hazard as effective in the middle? Because I just don't know, he seems to rely on the width of the field, but then again he has all the tools to play centrally, I just haven't seen him there.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:52 am

433 is the heritage of Carlo, and the players we had in the squad fit that model very well.

If i remember well, Zidane's was running a 4231 with Castilla, that was his go to formation. I think he is adaptable at the end of the day.

Hazard mainly played down the middle under Benitez

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Post by Nishankly on Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:34 am

Kepa would be a good choice
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Post by farfan on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:11 pm

What do you think of Ismaila Sarr @Nick? I know most of you are not exactly enthusiastic about signing another " kid ", but he's starting to look like the type of player that Madrid will regret not buying 2 or 3 years from now.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:39 pm

I think he needs a LOOOOT more to be a player that we regret not signing.

As i think a 4231 will naturally happen if we sign Hazard, Jadon Sancho is another player that could be interesting to sign. He is actually a right winger and i know you guys have complained not having one. His end product is good, specially assisting, but he is not a great scorer yet (not sure he will ever be, not that profile imo).

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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:47 pm

Lol, Nick becoming the new Monchi!
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:53 pm

I imagine Jadon Sancho will be going back to England on the first chance he gets. He's definitely going to be expensive, regardless of where he might go.

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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:01 pm

@Nick, I admire your posts in only you can find credibe news, seems like only you can rationalize Flo’s transfer policies and now you seem in command of not only what will be the coach, the configuration and the players we will likely acquire! That quite a “load” you have taken on.

I would like to point out though, that there will be a limit to how many, and more importantly at what cost, new players will come in.

You have to first recognize who will be salvaged and who will go.

I say going will be Bale, Modric, Vallejo and Marcelo. Possible others are Isco, Benzema, Navas (on his own accord). Then you also have to consider Brahim and Rodrygo. So beginning with starters, assuming Vinicius and Bale are in current, you only have 4 positions (2 forwards, a CM and LB). I recognize bench can be changed and in some cases the bench strength can challenge for a starter position, but my point is at maximum, we are looking a 4 new starters, if the price can average 100K per player.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:06 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I imagine Jadon Sancho will be going back to England on the first chance he gets. He's definitely going to be expensive, regardless of where he might go.
For someone who actually left first chance he got, i think he is wired a bit differently. He seems to be concerned with playing time and...money Laughing

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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:11 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:I imagine Jadon Sancho will be going back to England on the first chance he gets. He's definitely going to be expensive, regardless of where he might go.
For someone who actually left first chance he got, i think he is wired a bit differently. He seems to be concerned with playing time and...money Laughing


That could work in our favor hmm I imagine he'll be quite expensive, though. Like Bill pointed out, we're getting Rodrygo, so hopefully we can save those expenses.


Last edited by Thimmy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:11 pm

@Bill, i am making a reasonable assumption, that if you want Vinicius to continue developing, but plan to also sign an attacking midfielder like Hazard + the drop in quality of players like Modric, Kroos and Casemiro, a formation change with new personnel is incoming.

If you factor in that Mourinho might be the coach, the 4231 becomes even more likely. We are struggling with scoring and vertical plays, i really dont see why we should try to preserve the vestiges of the pas 6 years with a 3 man midfield. They are done, change things up.

Reasonable assumption is that they will try to make the minimum amount of change possibles, but this team hit rock bottom this season, a harder reset with more changes might be needed

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:12 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Thimmy wrote:I imagine Jadon Sancho will be going back to England on the first chance he gets. He's definitely going to be expensive, regardless of where he might go.
For someone who actually left first chance he got, i think he is wired a bit differently. He seems to be concerned with playing time and...money Laughing


That could work in our favor hmm I imagine he'll be quite expensive, though.
yes of course, more than 100 millions, they sold Dembele for quite a bit so if there are multiple clubs interested there will be a bidding war for him. I would not want us to pay that though, not for a player lacking end product in goals

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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:42 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:@Bill, i am making a reasonable assumption, that if you want Vinicius to continue developing, but plan to also sign an attacking midfielder like Hazard + the drop in quality of players like Modric, Kroos and Casemiro, a formation change with new personnel is incoming.

If you factor in that Mourinho might be the coach, the 4231 becomes even more likely. We are struggling with scoring and vertical plays, i really dont see why we should try to preserve the vestiges of the pas 6 years with a 3 man midfield. They are done, change things up.

Reasonable assumption is that they will try to make the minimum amount of change possibles, but this team hit rock bottom this season, a harder reset with more changes might be needed


Ok, I’ll accept that. To follow on then, I do assume Modric is gone, Casemiro and / or Llorente are limited and Kroos has been disappointing at times plus he has defensive weaknesses. Are there 2 decent BtoB midfielders out there? I feel all three of the backup midfielders have shown enough to stay, but not sure if any are ready to be starters. I think they are all capable of challenging, but i feel we have to have at least one new CB. My question then is it possible to find talent to allow us to play two CB and then perhaps 2 AMs, Hazard being one!

My issue with your previous posts is you didn’t like Deez’s suggestion, saying we needed goal scorers and that Hazard nor Isco weren’t. Then you say Vinicius has to play yet he isn’t (yet) a goal scorer, leaving us in the same desperate need of a proven CF goal scorer!

Bottom line to me is, although we can definitely improve this team for next season, the rebuilding will not be accomplished in just one summer. What I want to a true transitional plan that will take 2 to 3 years to complete. We therefore need a coach that is a big part of thst plan and will be here for the duration and not held to unreasonable expectations!
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:05 pm

If you move to a 2 man midfield, sell Kroos asap. he is too mediocre defensively and struggles too much on the ball (dribbling, turning, ball retention) to be relevant. He was an absolute nightmare for Germany in that kind of set up last summer.

Rabiot is a free agent, sign him up. Ndombele is also available for a deal. Van de Beek from Ajax is also a great B2b no one talks about, he was amazing against us, tore our midfield apart with his runs (Vandeez should confirm this). That's 3 you can sign.

by definition, i would argue a 4231 with pacy wingers would yield you more vertically and scoring opportunity than  playing a diamond midfield with 1 natural striker, which is a very horizontal formation build around control of play. So my suggestion is to build a team where wingers on both side become key. I also think featuring Vinicius is important because in 3-4 months he earned it.

What sucks for him in madrid today is that all plays go through his side, and he has no opportunities to be an off the ball threat to improve his goalscoring. I think if you have other creators in the middle as a n10 and on the right side of the team, you give him those opportunities to finish chances as opposed to having to run with the ball from midfield, and then try to figure out how to beat 3 players to shoot on goal, that's extremely difficult.

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Post by titosantill on Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:39 pm

it all depends on personnel and who we get, i like the 4 2 3 1 because in theory it allows for creativity in the final third, with an attacking mid....in theory that is, whereas the  4 3 3, a similar variant, but once again in theory means more ball distribution/possession recycling. but in reality if you have the right 3 or one of the members of the midfield 3 that can actually penetrate in the final third then that can work. depends on who we get and that person's skillset

i do agree with mrnick that if you're going the 4 2 3 1 route, kroos is in trouble, because from a defensive standpoint the other midfielder, who will most likely be a dm is overworked, having kroos, who hardly runs and an attacking midfielder is a risky option

but we'll see what happens and who we get, imo any formation can work depending on who we get, from an attacking standpoint, we are all over the place, whoever we sign or whatever formation used must address the striker situation, more creativity from the flanks, and in the final third, we are lacking in those 3 areas

and i'm glad mrnick has finally seen the light about this squad being spent. florentino too; a shame we had to lose in the manner we did for flo to realize that. but its a learning experience, at least, i take it we wouldn't do this again......and if flo really believes in the policy he preached at the start of the season , he shouldn't fire  solari nor even bring in new players, he should leave the squad as is.....if he really believed in that speech he gave
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