The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Firenze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:06 pm

I've never been so sure that a player is ill suited to the PL before..I REALLY hope it's Madrid for Dybala this summer. Really. I think he stays though. Don't want to drop stupid money on him.

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:07 pm

@Firenze wrote:I've never been so sure that a player is ill suited to the PL before..I REALLY hope it's Madrid for Dybala this summer. Really. I think he stays though.


He really is, only City would fit him for quite obvious reasons

I think he's gone
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by S on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:18 pm

There's a big tactical problem with Dybala

He is a forward who should be playing closer to goal instead he's being used as an AM. Now one of those reasons maybe due to our midfield being complete crap technically which forces players like Dybala to drop deep and get the ball out of tight corners. I don't know if Allegri is consciously using him as a TQ because of the poor state of our midfield but you're going to continue getting games like today if he plays deeper.

Also he has a #9 ahead of him who is neither good in the air nor is adept at being a target man. Which is why his understanding with Mandzukic was/is 10 times better than it is with Higuain for example. Higuain has a better understanding with Berna and Costa than Dybala.

So a big decision needs to be made this summer. One of Dybala/Higuain should be sold for the betterment of the team. I assume selling Dybala would be easier although my heart says to keep him and sacrifice Higuain instead.
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Unique on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:21 pm

@Firenze wrote:I've never been so sure that a player is ill suited to the PL before..I REALLY hope it's Madrid for Dybala this summer. Really. I think he stays though. Don't want to drop stupid money on him.
yeah tbh i dont want liverpool to spend big on this guy. the way klopp plays we have to have players with work rate and 99 stamina. we should buy jorginho ceballos and lamar

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by S on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm

@Firenze wrote:I've never been so sure that a player is ill suited to the PL before..I REALLY hope it's Madrid for Dybala this summer. Really. I think he stays though. Don't want to drop stupid money on him.


Maybe the other side of Madrid, not Real.

Diego Costa would be the perfect partner for Dybala tbh

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm

@S wrote:There's a big tactical problem with Dybala

He is a forward who should be playing closer to goal instead he's being used as an AM. Now one of those reasons maybe due to our midfield being complete crap technically which forces players like Dybala to drop deep and get the ball out of tight corners. I don't know if Allegri is consciously using him as a TQ because of the poor state of our midfield but you're going to continue getting games like today if he plays deeper.

Also he has a #9 ahead of him who is neither good in the air nor is adept at being a target man. Which is why his understanding with Mandzukic was/is 10 times better than it is with Higuain for example. Higuain has a better understanding with Berna and Costa than Dybala.

So a big decision needs to be made this summer. One of Dybala/Higuain should be sold for the betterment of the team. I assume selling Dybala would be easier although my heart says to keep him and sacrifice Higuain instead.


I think there are some shades of truth to this but too much of an emphasis on the difference between Dybala as a trequartista and Dybala as a second striker, the difference is marginal at best. Many times he's even given a free role and he didn't have a problem in either of his first two seasons.

My problem with Dybala is his lack of effort and poor attitude, I'm not sure if he developed some sort of massive ego over the summer but he's really changed in my opinion.

I can't fault him for all of our problems:
-Douglas Costa was not that effective today, despite his assist
-Alex Sandro, despite his goal was one of the worst players on the field
-Lichtsteiner was useless on both sides of the ball
-Higuain did nothing
-Our midfield created zero opportunities and made no positive movements towards Crotone's goal

Then we have the defence that couldn't stop an elderly in a wheelchair pushing a beach ball with a stick

All 11 players were pathetic
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Firenze on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:32 pm

sell Griez, buy Dybala, very possible.

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:35 pm

@Firenze wrote:sell Griez, buy Dybala, very possible.


If he would want to join us, I find Atletico actually a proper team for him. Good player though

I see Martial and/or Cavani very possible

Our attack actually isn't situated all that badly though, even without Dybala. Douglas, Bernardeschi, Cuadrado, all dynamic players. Higuain, Mandzukic with obvious quality and then even a player like Pjaca who depending on his fitness could make an impact

We sorely need a proper midfield though. Even Mandragora, our player on loan who brother @rincon rates very highly, played for Crotone today destroyed us
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Unique on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:35 pm

@Luca wrote:
@S wrote:There's a big tactical problem with Dybala

He is a forward who should be playing closer to goal instead he's being used as an AM. Now one of those reasons maybe due to our midfield being complete crap technically which forces players like Dybala to drop deep and get the ball out of tight corners. I don't know if Allegri is consciously using him as a TQ because of the poor state of our midfield but you're going to continue getting games like today if he plays deeper.

Also he has a #9 ahead of him who is neither good in the air nor is adept at being a target man. Which is why his understanding with Mandzukic was/is 10 times better than it is with Higuain for example. Higuain has a better understanding with Berna and Costa than Dybala.

So a big decision needs to be made this summer. One of Dybala/Higuain should be sold for the betterment of the team. I assume selling Dybala would be easier although my heart says to keep him and sacrifice  Higuain instead.


I think there are some shades of truth to this but too much of an emphasis on the difference between Dybala as a trequartista and Dybala as a second striker, the difference is marginal at best. Many times he's even given a free role and he didn't have a problem in either of his first two seasons.

My problem with Dybala is his lack of effort and poor attitude, I'm not sure if he developed some sort of massive ego over the summer but he's really changed in my opinion.

I can't fault him for all of our problems:
-Douglas Costa was not that effective today, despite his assist
-Alex Sandro, despite his goal was one of the worst players on the field
-Lichtsteiner was useless on both sides of the ball
-Higuain did nothing
-Our midfield created zero opportunities and made no positive movements towards Crotone's goal

Then we have the defence that couldn't stop an elderly in a wheelchair pushing a beach ball with a stick

All 11 players were pathetic
could be the pen for madrid has knocked the shit out of them. might be some of them just need a change of club.

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Warrior on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:39 pm

We beat Samp 4 days ago
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:42 pm

I think too much rotation hurt us tonight. Midfield was the stuff of nightmares and our defence was unorganized

Without our individual talents in attack shining (Douglas, Higuain, Dybala), this was seemingly a tougher match than it should've been

That's as level-headed of a response as I can manage. Napoli on Sunday and then away to Inter next week, WATTBA
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:46 pm

The difference between how Dybala plays and an 'SS' are negligible. A TQ just means a player that plays in the trequarti, the 3/4th. Basically between the lines in a 4-4-2 or in the 3 of a 4-2-3-1. From there to a second striker is just a matter of player characteristics. If its Higuain next to Mandzukic then you will see Higuain playing closer to the forward line. If its Dybala then he will be more mobile, because that's his strength as a SS/TQ.

The tactical problem we have is not that fine difference. The problem is if the rest of the team (and modern football) is suited to a trequartista. It's why there are so few 10s anymore. They just exist in the 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 while the rest of Serie A plays with 3 or more midfielders.

That said, I hope the only reason to throw Dybala under the bus like you guys are doing here is because of this tactical mismatch. Because it can't be for lack of quality. Dybala has carried us in too many games in this scudetto race. Without him we would have been in big problems whenever Higuain wasn't on form. That Lazio game turned the whole tide of the race and it was won only because of Dybala. Not too mentioned the fact that 1 week ago we won with his hattrick.


Last edited by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Unique on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:48 pm

@Luca wrote:I think too much rotation hurt us tonight. Midfield was the stuff of nightmares and our defence was unorganized

Without our individual talents in attack shining (Douglas, Higuain, Dybala), this was seemingly a tougher match than it should've been

That's as level-headed of a response as I can manage. Napoli on Sunday and then away to Inter next week, WATTBA
lets hope napoli win that so we can see at least one good title race in europe this season.

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:51 pm

It's been a good race regardless. Let's hope they don't win

The crazy thing is Napoli dropping points with Sassuolo and Milan and beating Chievo in the 90th minute. If they won one of Sassuolo/Milan... whew

@rincon wrote:The difference between how Dybala plays and an 'SS' are negligible. A TQ just means a player that plays in the trequarti, the 3/4th. Basically between the lines in a 4-4-2 or in the 3 of a 4-2-3-1. From there to a second striker is just a matter of player characteristics. If its Higuain next to Mandzukic then you will see Higuain playing closer to the forward line. If its Dybala then he will be more mobile, because that's his strength as a SS/TQ.

The tactical problem we have is not that fine difference. The problem is if the rest of the team (and modern football) is suited to a trequartista. It's why there are so few 10s anymore. They just exist in the 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 while the rest of Serie A plays with 3 or more midfielders.

That said, I hope the only reason to throw Dybala under the bus like you guys are doing here is because of this tactical mismatch. Because it can't be for lack of quality. Dybala has carried us in too many games in this scudetto race. Without him we would have been in big problems whenever Higuain wasn't on form. That Lazio game turned the whole tide of the race and it was won only because of Dybala. Not too mentioned the fact that 1 week ago we won with his hattrick.


Great post as always. I don't mean to be the person always against Dybala. He just frustrates me immensely and I do hold him to a higher standard than many of our other players. Although, tonight, everyone equally sucked
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by juvealbanian on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:54 pm

Been saying it for ages...Dybala is not a trequartista but a striker.Period.

A trequartista is mighty Del Piero or Totti with class and vision for the final ball.Dybala is a worldclass only at finishing and going through players in small distances.His physical condition lately is making things even worse for him.Playing deeper than he should makes him isolated,forces him to run more and waste energy.We need a proper AM or atleast adapt a new formation.
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by McLewis on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:00 pm

In other news....it appears we haven't forgotten how to win in the league after all.


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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:00 pm

@juvealbanian wrote:Been saying it for ages...Dybala is not a trequartista but a striker.Period.

A trequartista is mighty Del Piero or Totti with class and vision for the final ball.Dybala is a worldclass only at finishing and going through players in small distances.His physical condition lately is making things even worse for him.Playing deeper than he should makes him isolated,forces him to run more and waste energy.We need a proper AM or atleast adapt a new formation.


Would you play him as CF then? we can't have two players pinned forward. Even when we have Higuain-Mandzukic, Higuain ends up dropping back. Dybala as #9 would be the only choice in this case. I think we have the wrong coach for that.
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:07 pm

Anyway, in times like these after a league game we didn't even lose I have to say what the kommander says to us every match we play him. Calma.

For all this talk of us sucking we are well on track to beat our league record under Max. We haven't lost since november and we will have a higher point tally than we've had in any recent season (or maybe ever?) except (probably) for Conte's last. The only reason we aren't running away with the title is because Napoli are also doing something extraordinary. This to put things about this team into perspective.
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Unique on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:10 pm

@McLewis wrote:In other news....it appears we haven't forgotten how to win in the league after all.

i just know you are saving up the good stuff for us. Smile

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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:17 pm

@rincon wrote:
@juvealbanian wrote:Been saying it for ages...Dybala is not a trequartista but a striker.Period.

A trequartista is mighty Del Piero or Totti with class and vision for the final ball.Dybala is a worldclass only at finishing and going through players in small distances.His physical condition lately is making things even worse for him.Playing deeper than he should makes him isolated,forces him to run more and waste energy.We need a proper AM or atleast adapt a new formation.


Would you play him as CF then? we can't have two players pinned forward. Even when we have Higuain-Mandzukic, Higuain ends up dropping back. Dybala as #9 would be the only choice in this case. I think we have the wrong coach for that.


Allegri said earlier in the season that Dybala doesn't have the characteristics to play as a #9 at a top team

As a false 9 or in a Napoli system I could see him doing well enough, I guess it depends on the team's goals. I can't imagine a team winning on multiple fronts with Dybala as their false 9

Onto the next match though, we sucked tonight and I can live with that if we beat Napoli on Sunday
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Robespierre on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:19 pm

Fiorenrina bottle job is just something of horrible.
CL race is done for us
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:20 pm

@Luca wrote:
@rincon wrote:
@juvealbanian wrote:Been saying it for ages...Dybala is not a trequartista but a striker.Period.

A trequartista is mighty Del Piero or Totti with class and vision for the final ball.Dybala is a worldclass only at finishing and going through players in small distances.His physical condition lately is making things even worse for him.Playing deeper than he should makes him isolated,forces him to run more and waste energy.We need a proper AM or atleast adapt a new formation.


Would you play him as CF then? we can't have two players pinned forward. Even when we have Higuain-Mandzukic, Higuain ends up dropping back. Dybala as #9 would be the only choice in this case. I think we have the wrong coach for that.


Allegri said earlier in the season that Dybala doesn't have the characteristics to play as a #9 at a top team

As a false 9 or in a Napoli system I could see him doing well enough, I guess it depends on the team's goals. I can't imagine a team winning on multiple fronts with Dybala as their false 9

Onto the next match though, we sucked tonight and I can live with that if we beat Napoli on Sunday


Indeed. That's why I said we have the wrong coach for that. To find Dybala as a false 9 in Juve then we need to look at Spalletti or Sarri. To Allegri Dybala is not a #9, and if he is not a #9 then he must drop back and contribute with the rest. This is only role we will see centrally for Dybala for now at least.
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:21 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Fiorenrina bottle job is just something of horrible.
CL race is done for us


Wtf happened in that match Laughing

Didn't watch it of course
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Robespierre on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:21 pm

@Luca wrote:It's been a good race regardless. Let's hope they don't win

The crazy thing is Napoli dropping points with Sassuolo and Milan and beating Chievo in the 90th minute. If they won one of Sassuolo/Milan... whew

@rincon wrote:The difference between how Dybala plays and an 'SS' are negligible. A TQ just means a player that plays in the trequarti, the 3/4th. Basically between the lines in a 4-4-2 or in the 3 of a 4-2-3-1. From there to a second striker is just a matter of player characteristics. If its Higuain next to Mandzukic then you will see Higuain playing closer to the forward line. If its Dybala then he will be more mobile, because that's his strength as a SS/TQ.

The tactical problem we have is not that fine difference. The problem is if the rest of the team (and modern football) is suited to a trequartista. It's why there are so few 10s anymore. They just exist in the 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 while the rest of Serie A plays with 3 or more midfielders.

That said, I hope the only reason to throw Dybala under the bus like you guys are doing here is because of this tactical mismatch. Because it can't be for lack of quality. Dybala has carried us in too many games in this scudetto race. Without him we would have been in big problems whenever Higuain wasn't on form. That Lazio game turned the whole tide of the race and it was won only because of Dybala. Not too mentioned the fact that 1 week ago we won with his hattrick.


Great post as always. I don't mean to be the person always against Dybala. He just frustrates me immensely and I do hold him to a higher standard than many of our other players. Although, tonight, everyone equally sucked


Quite sure you would have won today if Napoli had won against Milan
Underrated the match for that + 6 imo
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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by Luca on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:25 pm

^^ It's true. On the plus side, we did get to rest Pjanic, Khedira, Chiellini and this was Bernardeschi's first game back to fitness (all of the 4 minutes he played but it's nice to see him available)


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Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

Post by rincon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Against Napoli I expect us to go old school.

Buffon; Asamoah, Chiellini, Benatia, Licht; Mandzukic, Pjanic, Khedira, Costa; Dybala, Higuain
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