Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

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Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Doc on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:19 pm

Old bitter man Tito wrote:this topic deserves its own thread so as not to take away from the game. benzema has also been at the club for more than a decade and won back to back ucl's. its all subjective, people have their own yardstick of measurement and some, like myself are more strict than others in certain areas and light in other areas.
Due to our low Madrid membership, this discussion would not be jam packed with info but we are also the best Madrid fans on the net so it balances itself out. Also, allowing Hans to contribute as he obviously is a Madrid fan on GL.

Right, straight to the point, Guti ain't no legend for me. Like at all. Never quite get how any Madrid fan who saw him play week in week out could think that. Raul is a legend, Hierro, Sanchis, Butragueno, Hugo Sanchez, Zidane (duh), etc. could be very much considered legends. But Guti? Really?

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:24 pm

He's a legend in my book.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by guest7 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:33 pm

I think Tito responded to my post regarding Marcelo being a legend or not in that quote.

Considering he said "Benzema has ALSO won back to back CLs and spent a decade". That was after me pointing out Marcelo has been at the club a decade and won back to back CLs.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Thimmy on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:34 pm

His achievements for the club may not be legendary, but at the same time, I think he's synonymous with Real Madrid. I don't remember how long he stayed at Besiktas, but he spent the vast majority of his career at his boyhood club, and despite his frustratingly low work-rate and diva- like, indifferent nature, I like to remember him for his genuinely exceptional vision, passing ability, and ironically - his leadership ability when he came on as a sub and our morale was low. He's Spanish and he obviously cares about the club a lot. We all have different definitions of what a club legend is, but for what it's worth, I think his allegiance towards Real Madrid is substantially stronger than that of Cristiano Ronaldo, for instance.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:43 pm

@Thimmy wrote:His achievements for the club may not be legendary, but at the same time, I think he's synonymous with Real Madrid. I don't remember how long he stayed at Besiktas, but he spent the vast majority of his career at his boyhood club, and despite his frustratingly low work-rate and diva- like, indifferent nature, I like to remember him for his genuinely exceptional vision, passing ability, and ironically - his leadership ability when he came on as a sub and our morale was low. He's Spanish and he obviously cares about the club a lot. We all have different definitions of what a club legend is, but for what it's worth, I think his allegiance towards Real Madrid is substantially stronger than that of Cristiano Ronaldo, for instance.


Yeah. Being a club legend is more than the football side of things. It's about embodying the club's mentality at making a connection wit the fans on some kind of level.

Guti is the biggest cult hero figure I've seen in a Madrid shirt. He could've left at so many points to get real starting time, but he stayed out of love. His whole weird personality is part of the legend also. His lacksidaisical nature, lazyness but also his all time talent as a passer are all part of the unique experience.

Guti embodied Real Madrid better than most players in our history. He'd die for the club. Ramos is kind of the same way, despite me not liking his game at all, you can't deny his passion for the club.

The same way I don't think Ronaldo will ever be our biggest legend, despite what huge parts of reddit and r/soccer thinks. Ronaldo's attitude is to fight for himself, and it seems he never fully bought into the club, despite him being one of our greatest players ever.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Doc on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:53 pm

@guest7 wrote:I think Tito responded to my post regarding Marcelo being a legend or not in that quote.

The part where he mentioned it deserves a thread is what is this about. It definitely deserves a thread and this is one. Guti being a legend (he is not) was the inspiration but any player is up for discussion including current guys.

I would give Guti being a cult icon, he is but legendary, nah. Nothing about his career was legendary and it definitely had more frustration than cheers. But make no mistake, I do like Guti, he was a joy to watch when he felt like it was time to play for that contract extension.


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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:15 pm

I'd have a much bigger problem with Guti if we had his childhood hero as a manager and he kept playing him every single game even though he'd been shit for 18 months straight over more talented players.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Doc on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Speaking of which, is Benzema a legend?

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by guest7 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:25 pm

@Doc wrote:Speaking of which, is Benzema a legend?


I'd suggest to anyone who claims such a thing to go and kill themselves. Seriously
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Simple answer to question is a definite NO. You can’t spend the majority of your career on bench and be considered a club great. He is looked up to for being one of the rare Academy players to make it, but to call him legend, you might as well include anyone who was on team for multiple seasons. Saying Guti is a legend is the same as saying Lucas should be considered a legend.

About the others mentioned in other thread, Benzema, you got to be kidding me! And re Marcelo, he is borderline IMO, but when considering his defensive flaws, his overall performance makes it a NO. As I said in another thread, his countryman, Roberto Carlos, was miles ahead of him and is definitely a club legend.

And Hala re Guti as coach, it’s a long stretch to suggest someone coaching a juevenile team is anywhere close to be ready to coach a first level team, let alone one of the top clubs in world.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:49 pm

Legend definition:
An extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field.

Guti is that hmm

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:58 pm

@Freeza wrote:Legend definition:
An extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field.

Guti is that hmm


Oh shit, with that definition, even Benzema, who certainly is notorious would make it. What a BS defintion!
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:02 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Freeza wrote:Legend definition:
An extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field.

Guti is that hmm


Oh shit, with that definition, even Benzema, who certainly is notorious would make it. What a BS defintion!


There's also this one:
A traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated.

By that definition Benzema being a good player is def a legend. It's regarded as historical fact, but who has really seen it or remember it?

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Your point to these BS defintions is ???????

The word "legend" in futbol is as overused as "world class" or in other sports "superstar".

Legend is a player who stood out above the rest for several years, making huge contributions to the club's success.

With your logic, the entire team including Nacho and Lucas are going to be considered legends. Re Guti, I repeat you can't be a bench player for the majority of your career and expect to be called a club legend.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Freeza on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:44 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Your point to these BS defintions is ???????

The word "legend" in futbol is as overused as "world class" or in other sports "superstar".

Legend is a player who stood out above the rest for several years, making huge contributions to the club's success.

With your logic, the entire team including Nacho and Lucas are going to be considered legends. Re Guti, I repeat you can't be a bench player for the majority of your career and expect to be called a club legend.


Are you really this dense you couldn't read that it was a joke?


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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Doc on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:32 pm

@Freeza wrote:Are you really this dense you couldn't read that it was a joke?

It usually does fly over his head quite a bit.

To answer my own question, Benzema's legacy is a good one at the club. Sure, the last 2-3 years have been underwhelming to dog shit but he has contributed quite a bit to the club but I really don't know if I can say it was legendary. I mean, kinda difficult to really say it out right like you would with Ronaldo or Iker.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:33 pm

coaching Real's U19 vs Bayern RIGHT AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

Available on YT.

Will lose though.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:06 pm

A good définition of club legend is " Can you tell the story of Real Madrid without talking about about Future"?

To that question I feel like the answer is yes, so he is not a club legend to me

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:31 pm

Not a legend for me, but not far off. He is a bit of a special player, he had creativity that was far ahead of his time. An extremely loyal servant to the club who could have easily started at other top clubs but was so attached to the club and culture that he stayed. He certainly deserves recognition, and considering what kind of coach he may turn out to be his RM story is not over.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by titosantill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:58 pm

depends on how one views things, for me, you don't have to have played 700 games to be considered such. longevity doesn't automatically equate legendary status. raul for instance i already thought of as a legend really early in his career. guti's still writing his story, but as a player, for me, its no. i care about the pitch not cult heroes. extremely talented, could do way more than he showed, much more talented than raul but didn't live up. eternal promise as calderon called him, fit him perfectly

if we're handing out legend status cos of what players say on the microphone we might as well bestow that upon arbeloa as well (i know some people here consider him legendary lmao). i can understand guest7's marcelo argument, and really youngsters wouldn't be wrong in considering him such....but guti? dude was only a starter for like 1 or 2 seasons. an extremely brilliant passer but for now, he is closer to eternal promise than legend......for now. and that's no disrespect to him, he wasn't a scrub
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by sportsczy on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:05 am

To equate this to my favorite NBA team the Lakers.

Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, etc. were legendary.

Scott, Cooper, Horry, Gasol, etc., although very good to even great in terms of Gasol, were not.

It's a team with that high of a standard. Legendary for the Lakers means legends of the game. I view Real Madrid the same way.

So no for Guti... and that's not an insult since the club is Real Madrid.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by sportsczy on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:08 am

I put Guti in the same category of player as Benzema... role players who were very useful and necessary to help the true legendary players, such as Ronaldo, Ramos and Bale, to shine.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by sportsczy on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:13 am

And Guti was REALLY like Benzema... both were insanely talented and should have been clearly regarded among the absolute elite in the world. Yet, one didn't give a shit about working hard and actually playing to his potential... while the other made up his own definition of the modern striker, which didn't involve focusing on scoring goals somehow.

Both frustrated me... and one continues to do so... immensely. Sources of a lot of anxiety.

At least with players like Callejon and Vasquez... you know they're limited so you can't be mad really. But with Benz and Guti, you felt that they cheated you often.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by Doc on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:54 pm

Yeah, Guti was incredibly frustrating. One of the finest footballers to ever come through the club and he only used to show up like once a month and when it was time to renew his contract. Had the same level of talent Xavi possessed but used most of his powers to chase lady boys.

Sigh, the hate and love I have for him is stupid.

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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:39 pm

I agree with sports on that assessment.
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Re: Is Guti a legend at Madrid?

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