Re: Where do you rank Benzema in all time Real Madrid

by Mr Nick09 Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:18 pm

futbol wrote:Since when is playing alongside Kommander a hindrance? It's a priviledge where you should do better.

I think we forget how prime Kommander was the original Dracula, vampirizing every thing on the pitch. It was good and bad and even he adjusted his style a lot for us to start winning with him.

But there are no excuses for Benzema, he just has a subdued personality and that reflects on the pitch. He went from being an ambitious youngster who wanted to win the golden ball to a Cat.

He also needs to thank people like Perez and Zidane who have lobbied for him in Madrid big time. in turn they have created the concept of the complete striker to protect him

by sportsczy Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:44 pm

Benzema came to Madrid when he was 22 Bill. Made his pro debut with Lyon at the age of 18. He was only a regular for his last 2 years at Lyon... where he scored 54 goals. I don't think anyone can argue he was monstrous at Lyon. He was carrying them and they had a darn good team.

In any case, I think you have it backwards Nick. We all know that almost every WC CF would have clashed with CR on the pitch in a big way... they protected Benzema because he was the perfect sidekick to CR and was happy to do it. More about CR than Benz.

by titosantill Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:10 pm

wait, no ivan "bam bam" zamorano on that list? that in itself is ridiculous, he was a beast for us. host of one and dones shouldn't be on the list, and neither should players who haven't been seen, cos the best way to go is the eye test. anyone over 35 should agree that bam bam deserves some credit surely

by futbol_bill Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:24 pm

Oh, I forgot about him Tito. Yes I definitely agree with you.

The list wasn’t a list or ranking. It was just me going thru my memory banks listing anyone I could remember ignoring those who hardly played. I actually put out a request to no avail of anyone else, who was a starter, that I had missed.

My point of the list was that Benzema does not belong on that list at all, despite the fact that he has been a starter for almost 10 years. I would place Van Gol and Mijotovic and maybe even Suker in that list despite the fact that they played a much shorter time at club. I go as far as to say the only other starter at club that I would put Benzema ahead of would be Anelka.

by titosantill Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:41 pm

i'm not to sure where i'd rank mijatovic, i'll discuss my rankings later, just got back from Suriname with the wife, so getting settled back, was just reading through all the threads, didn't have anytime to post while was away

by Mr Nick09 Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:05 pm

https://youtu.be/ggtoJQW2XJs

by Doc Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:59 pm

Nick, while I appreciate you showing us (me) a compilation of Benzema doing non-scoring things, not sure how that fits into the whole "where Benzema rank in an all time Real Madrid".

by titosantill Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:27 pm

maybe its cos some writer on marca had an article saying benzema is not a 9 and nicknaming him karim laudrup (which he clearly isn't); i don't have time to go into detail about how many times karim fans have changed the goal post for him since we signed him. anelka cassano owen saviola callejon chicharito soldado morata are not included,

from a pool of r9, nistelrooy, raul, zamorano, benzema, morientes, higuain, suker. i'd pick the first 4 names i mentioned before benzema. i'd take benzema over morientes though. suker had too many off the field activities going for him, i think he was a better cf, and i was a big fan, but i'd think i'd put him and karim level

by futbol_bill Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:40 pm

Tito, you seem to be ignoring the following or is it just because they are before your time?
Di Stefano
Puskas
Santillana
Butragueño
Sanchez

by titosantill Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:02 pm

there's no debate about those, i've always maintained di stefano as the club's greatest player ever. puskas too is up there, at butragueno's prime in the mid to late 80s i was watching more serie a as we didn't get liga tv coverage. nobody's debating those names you mentioned; i'm not going to put benz ahead of santillana for petes sake lol but for me its difficult to rank someone i've not seen since i primarily use the eye test-

and even that in itself is very difficult cos i didn't rank the players i mentioned, i just picked 4 names from a list of 7 i'd take over benzema. i didn't say first second third , which i plan on doing at some point

by Mr Nick09 Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:30 pm

I posted it to balance out the rhetoric on the forum which was leaning on the anti Benzema side. In another thread I talked about his qualities as a player and what made him succeed in Madrid overall, and while I made my opinion clear about where he stands all time, I also wanted to show the complete CF in motion

by Doc Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:44 pm

I always lose a semblance of sanity whenever I see this complete CF line with regards to Benzema. Sigh. I know it's some of you guys personal thoughts but i really cannot assign my mind to think of Benzema that way.

As for All time list, he'll be remembered but it won't be a fond one like El Buitre, Sanchez, Santillana, Zamorano, etc. However, his numbers are legit so he'll get the remembrance part.

by Adit Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:24 pm

Nonsense.

A complete CF is some one who can dribble, head, score, create and pass.

A limited player like Benzema is anything but complete.

Shit hanging on stick scenario at it's finest.

by Turok_TTZ Sun May 27, 2018 2:50 am

What the hell is this thread?

this is all you need to know about Benzema's place is our glorious hist-...

edit: damn twitter embedded failure. ill fix in a moment.

final edit: fixed. this is all you need ti know about Benzema's place in our history.

Born to make history @realmadrid @adidasfootball #HereToCreate #createdwithadidas pic.twitter.com/eDXkBScK6g
— Karim Benzema (@Benzema) May 26, 2018

that there is jazz hands at work.

by sportsczy Sun May 27, 2018 2:58 am

You can never excuse the horrible effort in La Liga... but, the return leg against Bayern and the CL Final...

Like always with this damn dude... it's just as frustrating to rank him than it is to watch him.

One thing is beyond a doubt: Most frustrating player I have ever seen and nobody's even close.

by Turok_TTZ Sun May 27, 2018 3:02 am

sportsczy wrote:You can never excuse the horrible effort in La Liga... but, the return leg against Bayern and the CL Final...

Like always with this damn dude... it's just as frustrating to rank him than it is to watch him.

One thing is beyond a doubt: Most frustrating player I have ever seen and nobody's even close.

2-3 bad seasons out of 10? u just gonna ignore the 7-8 good years he has faithfully served us? I will not.

by Doc Sun May 27, 2018 3:04 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:i have been meaning to give my 5 cents about benzema for the past day or so.

first off, some of the names in that list are ridiculous: Owen, Cassano, Mayoral, Adebayor... is this a joke?

Benzema's trophy case with Madrid is way heavier than most of the strikers in that list. Winning 3 CLs obviously put him in a special category. But what is different with most of our CFs, they were often within the top 3 players of the team, leading us with goals, charisma, and performances in big games.

I dont think Benzema has proven to be a team leader in his time in Madrid. he has often had strong seasons, without ever looking like the absolute best. Contrary to the CFs you listed there as well, Benzema is playing in a role where he decided to subjugate himself to Cristiano entirely, so much so that he does not even score anymore. This is something everyone is having a difficult time with, but he, his coach, and his teammates have embraced the fact that CR is the scorer and everyone around him is there to help CR score. Actually, i think while people understand it, they refuse to accept it because it's such a foreign interpretation of the traditional n9 that no one wants to put up with it.

Benzema's success in madrid is so tied to that of Ronaldo that i dont think he deserves to be listed on any all time great or best anything Madrid. He justt did not play up to that level for long enough

I still agree with this honestly. Would add though that history would be kind to Benzema as his stats at the club is pretty good.

by sportsczy Sun May 27, 2018 3:14 am

Turok_TTZ wrote:
sportsczy wrote:You can never excuse the horrible effort in La Liga... but, the return leg against Bayern and the CL Final...

Like always with this damn dude... it's just as frustrating to rank him than it is to watch him.

One thing is beyond a doubt: Most frustrating player I have ever seen and nobody's even close.

2-3 bad seasons out of 10? u just gonna ignore the 7-8 good years he has faithfully served us? I will not.

It's not just that dude.... these last 2 seasons, which are his overall worst other than his first one... are the only two where he's made a mark in a massive knockout games late in CL. In his best seasons, he would be fantastic all the way up until March and then fade away.

In all his years at Real Madrid, he never put a complete season together I daresay. Stats look great because he went long stretched where he was brilliant. But somehow, he wouldn't finish things off.

THAT SAID, I think we're also having a hard time keeping perspective when you have Ronaldo performing next him. Any striker would fade in comparison.

So I don't know. I'm confused tbh.

by Turok_TTZ Sun May 27, 2018 2:50 pm

im not having a hard time. my perspective never changed.
u just wanted benz to step up to become the main man rather than being CR7's Robin in this dynamic duo. CR7 is rightfully the main man and Benz sacrificed his original game to let CR7 focus on scoring goals.

Benz may not be the best in comparison to cfs who were the primary goalscorer. but i reckon he is one of the best support strikers we've ever had. Batman always needs a robin. and yesterday, Robin had his moment in the spotlight. cant ask for more.

by titosantill Sun May 27, 2018 3:38 pm

i'm sorry but 5 goals is too low for even robin. he can be robin to the next cf we sign and be a back up, i've got no problem with that. but 5 goals (and 2 from penalties) , those are center back type numbers...was happy about the semi finals and finals, but that's not enough to justify the return. he can stay, but not as a starter. since he doesn't mind being robin he can be a valuable back up

by Turok_TTZ Sun May 27, 2018 4:00 pm

this is alltime, not this season tito. do u know what thread u are in?

Despite his heroics, yesterday. it will not change his fate. the bare minimum to be considered elite is 20+ in all comps. benz has failed to meet the minimum. I dont mind him staying. i also dont mind him going.

we still must seek out his long-term replacement. Maybe the world cup will give us our answer...

by titosantill Sun May 27, 2018 4:26 pm

he is not all time neither. all his seasons at madrid bar one have been riddled with inconsistencies. all time greats are not debatable- i.e. we don't have arguments every year about whether an all time great should be sold or stay. we've had that with benzema almost throughout his entire career here .

he's been too polarizing to fit that mould; its one thing for a few sections here and there to whistle a player which can happen especially when the team isn't doing well. but this has been his entire career at madrid bar one season.....mind you, morientes scored in a ucl final. there are better CFs that didn't. he's been pampered way too much to fit that bill, and i'm not being unfair to him, if we are being truthful to ourselves we know this. he's been our most pampered cf ever.

by Varnagel Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:56 pm

Easily one of the absolute best players to ever represent for RM.

- Scored 201 goals in 425 games for Real Madrid in all comps.
- Only 7 goal away from becoming 6th highest top scorer in RM history.
- Has better goal ratio than likes of Raul, Santillana etc.
- Scored 47 UCL-goals in 88 games.
- Made over 100 assists for the club.
- Won 16 titles (4 UCL-titles, 2 LaLiga titles).