Who should be the new CB we go after?

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Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:45 pm

It’s pretty obvious after the 2nd Juve leg, that Vallejo will go out on loan. I don’t agree with Sports that he solely is the blame for the poor game effort nor at fault for Juve goals, however it is painfully obvious that he is not ready yet. What he needs is game time, to develop his talent, gain confidence and hopefully shed the injury prone label. He won’t get that game time behind Ramos, Varane and Nacho, so it is best for him and club to go out on loan.

The question then is who do they get in return. Pepe would have been ideal, but they let him go, not only to bring in Vallejo, but also to take the pressure off of Varane and allow him to develop as a full time starter. So how has Varane done? He is no doubt a very good CB, but there have been moments this season that could have been better. Biggest exposure has been his lack of leadership. He seems to have a quiet personality and seems hesitant to comand the defense. (I can say the same thing about Navas). Certainly Varane does not exercise any command over the defense the way Ramos does or that Pepe did.

So with that in mind, do they go after an experienced 3rd or 4th CB or do they go after someone who can challenge Varane?
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:37 pm

Vallejo definitely wasn't solely to blame, the entire back line was a mess.

Vallejo should go out on lone but not because of the 1 bad performance, its because he has been incredibly injury prone.

For a 3rd or 4th string CB it doesn't really matter if he is a promising player (which Vallejo clearly is), it matters if he is dependable (which he clearly isn't).

I have no idea who we should go after tbh.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Thimmy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:05 am

I can't think of any young prodigies in the CB position that really stand out. The modern game just isn't as much about defending as it is about attacking.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:57 am

I don't think you want your 4th CB to be a youngster, it's not a smart choice. CBs reach maturity in the game between 26 and 30, just because by that time they have mileage and experience in their legs. They have seen situations over and over so they defend better, anticipate better, and they can be vocal leaders for the rest.

So a 18-22 year old CB with limited minutes is not going to shine and grow while spending time on the bench. Or at the very least it's rare that it works. Varane succeeded at this coming in Madrid so young because he was third CB pretty quickly. So he had ton of playing chances while Mourinho was icing Carvalho. Nacho's success and growth from 4th CB is quite rare.

So in my opinion the position is better suited for a veteran CB. I remember us being linked with Luiz this winter, that would be a good choice, and he can help out at DM since Zidane doesn't like Llorente. I read about Torino wanting to sign Glik, why not us?very good CB. That's the type of players you go for imo, 29-31 years old journeyman with European experience.

Young CB can be tried again, I mean it could work if you find a great talent for cheap but if you want another young guy why not stick to Vallejo? And by the way all the young CB who are "prodigies" are priced very high, you would really need to unearth some gem or gamble on a kid at low cost.

But when Ramos is suspended and Varane has another knee injury I would not want to see Nacho next to some young pup facing say Liverpool in CL quarter finals next season. Glik - Nacho looks a hell of a lot better imo

So sign a veteran CB like glik, send Vallejo get some time away on loan and we will review in 2 years. By then odds are we would have signed the next hot spanish u21 CB lol

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:46 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I don't think you want your 4th CB to be a youngster, it's not a smart choice. CBs reach maturity in the game between 26 and 30, just because by that time they have mileage and experience in their legs. They have seen situations over and over so they defend better, anticipate better, and they can be vocal leaders for the rest.

So a 18-22 year old CB with limited minutes is not going to shine and grow while spending time on the bench. Or at the very least it's rare that it works. Varane succeeded at this coming in Madrid so young because he was third CB pretty quickly. So he had ton of playing chances while Mourinho was icing Carvalho. Nacho's success and growth from 4th CB is quite rare.

So in my opinion the position is better suited for a veteran CB. I remember us being linked with Luiz this winter, that would be a good choice, and he can help out at DM since Zidane doesn't like Llorente. I read about Torino wanting to sign Glik, why not us?very good CB. That's the type of players you go for imo, 29-31 years old journeyman with European experience.

Young CB can be tried again, I mean it could work if you find a great talent for cheap but if you want another young guy why not stick to Vallejo? And by the way all the young CB who are "prodigies" are priced very high, you would really need to unearth some gem or gamble on a kid at low cost.

But when Ramos is suspended and Varane has another knee injury I would not want to see Nacho next to some young pup facing say Liverpool in CL quarter finals next season. Glik - Nacho looks a hell of a lot better imo

So sign a veteran CB like glik, send Vallejo get some time away on loan and we will review in 2 years. By then odds are we would have signed the next hot spanish u21 CB lol


I agree Nick. As I said in opening, Pepe would have been an ideal choice. The key is experienced. I wouldn’t give up on Vallejo though. He does seem to have the talent and if he can develop and get rid of this injury prone label, he could be an answer in a couple of years. I would like to think who we pick up could be a #3, i.e. good enough to put some internal pressure / challenge on Varane.

As to club going after another kid, I think they should have learn a bit from this year’s experience. They kind of got sucked in with Asensio’s development last year plus the success or relative success with Carvajal and Morata and even Lucas. But going with that many kids was a big mistake (hell even I am now admitting that). I do think that Theo, Vallejo and Ceballos are good talents and in the end may all make it with us, but there are only limited minutes available for them, which can’t be effective for them.

As to your comment earlier re Llorente, I feel he is gone, i.e. sale. He just hasn’t shown well, certainly not looked as he did at Alaves last year. And Zidane seems happy enough with Kroos or Kovacic playing in place of Casemiro when needed. Given Llorente is not a kid anymore, he’s 23, I suspect a sale and probably noone coming in. Which would mean it would be ideal if the new CB can also play as a DM.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:04 am

I personally don't think there is any need to put pressure on Varane, he is fantastic. He makes mistakes like every other CBs but he also puts on world class performances in late CL rounds. He is 24 he is fine, I don't understand this idea that he should be challenged

Nacho has also built a lot of equity so I don't think there is much need to pressure him out of his role. We have stability already there isn't much need to offset the roles of our defense.

If we were going that route then sign someone like Alderweireld, he is super elite but that would push Nacho down the pecking order and give you someone that can start any game. I don't think we are going that route. Its an argument I hear too, why not.

So you upset the whole order in defense or you just sign a veteran CB to help out. The way Zidane coaches he won't offset anything imo

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Thimmy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:28 am

I agree that we should ideally get a defender who's as close to his prime as possible, but there aren't many good defenders to choose from, and even less established ones who'd agree to come as a backup for our starters. Varane is a quality defender, but he's injury prone. We're lucky that he's stayed healthy this season.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Zees on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:28 am

Dream signing for me would be Azpilicueta, proven, Spanish and can play CB as well as RB. I wonder if he would be tempted to join assuming Chelsea doesn't make it to top 4? he seems to really enjoy being there and not sure if he would come here knowing he won't be a guaranteed starter.
@Thimmy wrote:I can't think of any young prodigies in the CB position that really stand out. The modern game just isn't as much about defending as it is about attacking.

De Ligt? he is linked to just about every top tier club. Škriniar from Inter is also another young and very promising CB.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:47 am

No top CB is going to come to Madrid to be 4th choice.  So it's literally going to have to be an over-the-hill CB or an unknown kid (maybe).  Problem is that, unless the talented CB kid is Spanish, he won't come to Madrid to be 4th choice either.

There aren't any choices imo.  Nobody has a 4th CB of the caliber you guys are talking about unless it's a cantera.

Saw the Juve game again... Marcelo was just as much to blame as Vallejo. Vallejo can't make those reads given his experience and Marcelo really put him in difficult situations. Vallejo couldn't handle it at all... but you can't expect him to. It had a domino effect. Varane and Carvajal had to almost play zonal behind them because Marcelo/Vallejo were all over the place. As a result, Carvajal couldn't get close to Mandzu soon enough to bother him and Varane also couldn't be aggressive at all and it made him a half step slower to react than he usually would.

The other big culprit was Casemiro. He didn't help at all. That was surprising. He would usually cover the open gaps but he didn't.

Defense is very a much a team concept. Only so much you can compensate for.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:53 am

So you guys want to  sign a young star at CB? Skriniar or de lift won't come to Madrid to play 4th CB, and they will cost above 40 millions, skriniar about 60 mil, I think inter already rejected an offer that high.

I thought people were happy with Nacho because right now he is 3rd in line.

Like I said, it all depends how you feel about Nacho, do you want to keep him at 3rd CB or no, that will tell you who you sign

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:59 am

I think most of us agree

- that Vallejo is not ready yet, has to get over the ‘injury prone’ issue and therefore has to go out on loan

- that we don’t want another kid, otherwise same situation next season.

- we want someone experienced.

We should bear in mind that unlike other positions, there is plenty of game action available for 4 CBs, particularly when you take into account likely injuries and suspensions.

Therefore I say go get the best available and let him fight it out with the 3 incumbents for playing time. No need to tell him, he will be #4, he will be what he earns!
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:17 am

People aren't stupid Bill. Nobody is going to beat out Varane and Ramos. Nacho is content at being #3, which is why there's no problem there.

4th CB could end up being someone like Ogbonna lol.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:25 am

Yeah you also have to keep in mind who the coach is, Zidane has 0 interest in bringing competition for Varane, none. He trusts in him and frankly I do too, the guy is 24 and he is already world class imo. What he lacks is leadership but that will come soon enough.


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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:29 am

Azpilicueta would be a good shout, though I am not sure he would come to play the Nacho role.

On the other hand, who knows what happens in the summer. Chelsea are due for a shake-up with Conte leaving, and Azpi has been there for a long time now, maybe he would like to come to Madrid for a change- have a shot at UCL.

De Ligt is too far off for me. Another great prospect, but lets see what happens when he moves to the EPL or where ever he decides.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:20 pm

i did not know there was such a hard on for Azpilicueta here.

but if you sign him then you can keep Vallejo at the club because Azpi can double Carvajal and play CB when you want.

could actually be a brilliant move hmm

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by farfan on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:15 pm

I don't really like Azpilicueta as a CB in a 4 man defense, I'm not even sure he ever played there.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:34 pm

he has never, but he is good enough of a defender that he would do fine. and he would be a part time move + RB support we need.

i dont think its feasible but i like the idea.

by the way, vallejo is playing today with ramos and i bet he does much better

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:48 pm

Azpili can also play LB. that would be an excellent move basically replacing Achraf on squad and covering all 4 defensive positions, but is it feasible to leave a big club as a starter to come to Madrid as backup. Note on NT he is behind both Carvajal, Nacho
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Thimmy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:08 pm

I just noticed that Azpilicueta is 1.78. Somehow, I always imagined he was like, 10cm taller. I think I've been getting him mixed up with Marcos Alonso hmm Chelsea really isn't a team I've been following much in recent years.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:15 pm

He is short yeah, good size for a fullback though, being in England he is now very built, not stocky but he is strong. Short defenders are not ideal but if you can make the reads, size doesn't matter.

We don't exactly have a tall defense overall if you think about it, just Varane stands out

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:15 pm

I don’t think Alonso is any taller? Alonso is a LB, but Chelsea plays him as LW a lot. Both are set starters. Alonso by the way is a Madrid cantera. His grandfather (a lot) and his father (a bit) both played for R. Madrid. When Marco made his debut with NT, a couple of weeks ago, he was first 3rd generation of family that all 3 played on NT.

I obviously would be happy to have both of them come to Madrid, but I don’t think it is feasible for either.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by Thimmy on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:30 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:I don’t think Alonso is any taller? Alonso is a LB, but Chelsea plays him as LW a lot. Both are set starters. Alonso by the way is a Madrid cantera. His grandfather (a lot) and his father (a bit) both played for R. Madrid. When Marco made his debut with NT, a couple of weeks ago, he was first 3rd generation of family that all 3 played on NT.

I obviously would be happy to have both of them come to Madrid, but I don’t think it is feasible for either.


According to Wikipedia, Alonso is 1.88m. That's a very good height for a defender who's relatively mobile.

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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:59 pm

Azpi is like Nacho in that he can play anywhere across the back line, Alonso can only play LB, and just because he’s taller doesn’t mean he would be better at CB than Azpi.

We should ask a Chelsea fan though, all the Chelsea fans I know are huge supporters of Azpi and believe him to be criminally underrated.
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:49 pm

Deez, I don’t think Alonso has ever played CB. Given he also plays LW, I believe is more offensive than defensive, whereas Azpili is much like Nacho in that it’s defensive capabilities that stand out. One difference is Azpili is a natural Lateral whereas Nacho a CB.

BUT, it’s not realistic to expect either of them to leave starter status at a big club to become a backup with Madrid
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Re: Who should be the new CB we go after?

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:13 am

Well that was my point earlier, Conte is certainly leaving so that places a lot of question marks over players at the club.

If Chelsea hired a manager that played a 2-CB formation instead of a 3-CB formation like they currently do, they would have Rudiger, Luiz, Cahill, Christensen and Azpi for 2 spots. Not to mention who ever the new manager may want to bring in.

So a guaranteed starting position isn't so guaranteed IMO, and if not him maybe Luiz is an option.
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