Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by S on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:

the only thing that changed is how good he became at using the media to build a nice image

Indeed. Buffon is the first person to use the media to build a nice image. How creative. Wish other sports personalities did the same.. Oh wait...

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:is there any proof by the way that he is no longer a fascit?has he ever addressed the behavior he had in his 20s and said he turned a leaf? because people here are trying to make it sound like he changed.


Is there any proof that he was? what kind of train of thought is this? the moment this happened he claimed ignorance and in 20 years he hasn't said or done anything to suggest he is a fascist. What he has done instead of speak of regrets i his youth, like the high school thing which he claims is his biggest regret in life.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:04 pm

Claiming ignorance is not a defense sadly, specially for a 20 years old

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 pm

What is proof that a person is not a fascist (or any other political ideology) or has never been a fascist?

That a person held a belief in no way means he or she still holds it decades later, especially when its during youth. Nothing he has done since suggests he is a fascist, which is why this is not even a topic. Its just here because people dug up something they didn't know about and are ignoring everything in between from that shirt at Parma until today.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Luca on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:57 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Claiming ignorance is not a defense sadly, specially for a 20 years old


Yet using the absence of evidence to suggest he is a fascist two decades later is even more ignorant, sadly.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:07 pm

I'm going to put it this way

A young German player choosing 88 as his shirt number and flirting with Nazi imagery or slogans would never play a minute for the NT, he wouldn't even get a contract at a top club.

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:28 pm

@S wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:"his real nature"

Always gotta love Robes' passion regarding a topic Proud


This is why you cant take him  seriously in this particular topic

Just another Inter fan with a skewed perspective about Buffon and Juve.


It has to do with Buffon, not with Juve
I'd not say same thing for Del Piero or Marchisio

It is not hard to understand it.

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:28 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:is there any proof by the way that he is no longer a fascit?has he ever addressed the behavior he had in his 20s and said he turned a leaf? because people here are trying to make it sound like he changed.

the only thing that changed is how good he became at using the media to build a nice image


That is very true

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Luca on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:34 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:is there any proof by the way that he is no longer a fascit?has he ever addressed the behavior he had in his 20s and said he turned a leaf? because people here are trying to make it sound like he changed.

the only thing that changed is how good he became at using the media to build a nice image



That is very true


No, it's not. It's flawed logic... claiming the absence of something proves something that it absolutely cannot, on its own prove. For all we know, Buffon has a closet filled with fascist memorabilia, there's no way for us to know he doesn't have such a closet in his home. Do you not see the leap were making here?

Aliens exist because no one has ever definitively proved that they don't exist

Whereas, they may in fact exist, notwithstanding of such a STUPID line of reasoning

I hate all ya'll for dragging me into this whirlwind of stupidity
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:36 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I'm going to put it this way

A young German player choosing 88 as his shirt number and flirting with Nazi imagery or slogans would never play a minute for the NT, he wouldn't even get a contract at a top club.


And especially he'd have not been rated as a fantastic sport man

Anyway even if Italy is not fascist country or nostalgic fascist country , we haven't really had a Vergangenheitsbewältigung comparable with what has been in Germany

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by S on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:02 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@S wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:"his real nature"

Always gotta love Robes' passion regarding a topic Proud


This is why you cant take him  seriously in this particular topic

Just another Inter fan with a skewed perspective about Buffon and Juve.


It has to do with Buffon, not with Juve
I'd not say same thing for Del Piero or Marchisio

It is not hard to understand it.


Yeah I totally believe you Laughing

The reason you are so invested in this topic is because it involves a Juventus player and it's BUFFON nonetheless. You just saw an opportunity along with these insecure Madrid jabroni's to throw further shade on him

You won't see people talking about your legends like Facchetti( who should have been jail today had he been alive) and Helenio Herrera(who doped to win titles) because nobody cares about Inter.

But continue digging up 20 year old quotes and continue bashing him if it makes you feel better lol. Juve just lost a CL game , good times for you I guess (:
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:30 pm

After I have read this from a Juve fan who had Luciano Moggi ( the man who gave us a dream : the Juve in Serie B. So innocent (: )  and Riccardo Agricola ( doping is not just a supposition in this case. But you didnt even watch football at that time. Ask to Zigra ) I can really die in pace.

It is as if  Mussolini blamed others of fascism.

Ops, I should say Gianluigi Buffon (:

Not surprised your national sport is the cricket tbh.

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by S on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:47 pm

@Robespierre wrote:After I have read this from a Juve fan who had Luciano Moggi ( the man who gave us a dream : the Juve in Serie B. So innocent (: )  and Riccardo Agricola ( doping is not just a supposition in this case. But you didnt even watch football at that time. Ask to Zigra ) I can really die in pace.

It is as if  Mussolini blamed others of fascism.

Ops, I should say Gianluigi Buffon (:

Not surprised your national sport is the cricket tbh.


Doesn't matter. It's the age of the internet. I don't need to watch football to know the facts. Juventus were even acquitted of the charges later on. But I can't convince your biased mind on this subject so I'll move on. Enjoy celebrating Juve's losses while Inter continue to remain irrelevant.

And cricket is not our national sport. But atleast we're no.1 in something :coffee:
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by zigra on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Sadly tribalism amongst football fans leads people to defend anything No
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by breva on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:57 pm

@Thimmy wrote:And along comes Breva, after someone mentions cognitive dissonance Rolling Eyes


Along comes Thimmy from the peanut gallery posting nonsense. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Myesyats on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:07 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:just remembered about reading this article some time ago: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/21/berlusconi-comeback-italy-fascist-past-postwar-shame

Fascism in Italy still seems to be very much present, same as in many places in Europe I'd imagine

Buffon is probably just one of many

similar case with communism btw, just as bad as fascism tbh



rofl rofl

I wonder if this is flame and so I should respond really to this crap

The neo faacist party (Casapound) got 0,8% in recent elections.
Just a bit of information would be good have to do it.

Italy is not fascist country absoutely, it tends to right at this moment ( but the first party was M5S , that got over 30 % . And it is nothing. Nor left neither right) , the left side looks like dead, but it doesn' mean fascist
It is nothing of different as other Western European countries as France Spain etc


If then we are going to call Berlusconi ( same political collocation as Merkel) , Salvini ( Lega Nord is a right national party. But it is as saying AFD in Germany are nazi. They are righ party.But nazi are NPD. Same for Lega , they are not fascist PLS ) as fascist I can' t continue this discussion

Incredible amount of bullshits read now

Yeah okay, media are biased so you can't really blame me. It seems that they call anyone who isn't liberal-center-left a fascist, especially CNN.

But it is true that Italy is rapidly shifting to the right side of the political spectrum. The center-left Democratic Party received a historic low 19% while the right is on the rise. Obviously fascism is too much of an extreme to be actually popular in this day and age.

I don't give a shit tbh, frankly I don't really have an opinion about which side of the political spectrum is better, nothing is perfect - that I know
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Myesyats on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:12 pm

As to Buffon himself- never liked him so anything negative about him comes as no suprise to me. He might be a Juve legend but he's not a legend of football, in my eyes

don't @ me
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:19 pm

@zigra wrote:Sadly tribalism amongst football fans leads people to defend anything No


It can, but I want to be clear. If Buffon came out today and declared himself fascist I'd be on the hate train as soon as I read it. The problem here is that of basing our evaluation of who someone is on things implied 20 years ago in his youth.

I don't watch football because I believe players are great are great at anything but playing football. Most of them are under-educated and under-qualified for much else.

I don't know the political affiliations or ideology of really any player at Juve or outside and I don't care unless its particularly offensive (like fascism). That said, people are not made of cardboard. I'm not about to judge a 40 year old man for something he wrote in his shirt when he was 20. These things were relevant and accurate judgements 20 years ago, not today.

In latin america, for example, it is extremely common for college students (and young people in general) to veer towards socialism and communism. Fast forward 5 years and most will have grown out of it.

Football player or not. It'd be foolish to believe that we are that simple and incapable of growth.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:49 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:just remembered about reading this article some time ago: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/21/berlusconi-comeback-italy-fascist-past-postwar-shame

Fascism in Italy still seems to be very much present, same as in many places in Europe I'd imagine

Buffon is probably just one of many

similar case with communism btw, just as bad as fascism tbh



rofl rofl

I wonder if this is flame and so I should respond really to this crap

The neo faacist party (Casapound) got 0,8% in recent elections.
Just a bit of information would be good have to do it.

Italy is not fascist country absoutely, it tends to right at this moment ( but the first party was M5S , that got over 30 % . And it is nothing. Nor left neither right) , the left side looks like dead, but it doesn' mean fascist
It is nothing of different as other Western European countries as France Spain etc


If then we are going to call Berlusconi ( same political collocation as Merkel) , Salvini ( Lega Nord is a right national party. But it is as saying AFD in Germany are nazi. They are righ party.But nazi are NPD. Same for Lega , they are not fascist PLS ) as fascist I can' t continue this discussion

Incredible amount of bullshits read now

Yeah okay, media are biased so you can't really blame me. It seems that they call anyone who isn't liberal-center-left a fascist, especially CNN.

But it is true that Italy is rapidly shifting to the right side of the political spectrum. The center-left Democratic Party received a historic low 19% while the right is on the rise. Obviously fascism is too much of an extreme to be actually popular in this day and age.

I don't give a shit tbh, frankly I don't really have an opinion about which side of the political spectrum is better, nothing is perfect - that I know


Populism is the proper word.
It can be a term used excessively but it is correct in this case

At this moment in Italy prevails the populism strongely euroskeptical, represented by Movimento Cinque Stelle ( imo the worst form of populism, because ideologically is nothing) and Lega Nord ( right side populusm)
Left side is dramatically dead, yes

Hard to associate this to fascism though and furthermore finding some association with Buffon for things said in 1999
At that time M5S didn't even exsist , his leader was just a comical (I'd say he is still so tbh) and Lega was a just regionalist party

Anyway Buffon said recently to vote for Renzi (PD), then I don't know how much he was sincere on it.. but he said so

http://m.ilgiornale.it/news/2016/05/30/gigi-buffon-dal-boia-chi-molla-a-renzi/1265256/

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:56 pm

He supported Monti (technocrat, at odds with the far right) as well before Renzi, as short lived as that was.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Doc on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:30 pm

The irony of Sugars calling Madrid fans insecure. Priceless. We are jabronis though, well, Hala is. Also, Buffon =/= Juventus, pretty much discussing the man and not the club but if you feel Sugars that he totally represents all things Juve, well, can't be helped.

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by S on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:40 pm

@Doc wrote:The irony of Sugars calling Madrid fans insecure. Priceless. We are jabronis though, well, Hala is. Also, Buffon =/= Juventus, pretty much discussing the man and not the club but if you feel Sugars that he totally represents all things Juve, well, can't be helped.


I was just saying he wouldn't be so invested in this topic if Buffon was playing for a different club. I am a great psychologist tbh. As a veteran on GL , I can see what certain people try to do. Maybe Robes is the one selling a fake image of being an objective poster tbh. I knew it all along it wasn't the case.

And yes some of your lot are insecure and jabroni's too. Don't judge me by my past fella. I am a completely different animal now.
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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by Robespierre on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:50 pm

Edit

@rincon wrote:He supported Monti (technocrat, at odds with the far right) as well before Renzi, as short lived as that was.


Two centrist leaders for how I see politics ( frankly it is hard for me to define Renzi as a left side politician) , surely not fascists though

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Re: Today I learned Buffon was a fascist in his early years

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:36 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Edit

@rincon wrote:He supported Monti (technocrat, at odds with the far right) as well before Renzi, as short lived as that was.


Two centrist leaders for how I see politics ( frankly it is hard for me to define Renzi as a left side politician) , surely not fascists though


Yes exactly. It was my point as well.
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