442 or 451 for the final?

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442 or 451 for the final?

Post by Adit on Wed May 02, 2018 5:46 pm

Which one would you prefer.

442 is with Benzema and Ronaldo.

It makes our attack tick and Ronaldo tick. With out it we are pretty much nullified in attack as we saw in many games.

We saw how weak defensively it is yesterday. When Bayern pushed their fullbacks up our midfielders had to go and cover the wings essentially leaving the middle. Asensio did a terrible job on Kimmich and Modric did good job on Alaba.
It also makes the midfield 2 vs 3 if the opposition is playing with 3 midfielders like Bayern did.

451 is with Ronaldo as lone forward]


It gives us defensive solidarity and tracks the fullbacks and wingers which is the tactics oppositions are using against us. Ie cross alot from wings and push forward players in the box for second balls and crosses. We saw it against Juventus and we saw the same by Bayern.

It how ever makes us very bad in attack. Ronaldo looks disinterested as a lone forward and our attack will suffer. We will be a very passive team with 451.


So what do you think we should play?

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 5:58 pm

4-4-2 All the way for me. Like Bayern, Liverpool are going to attack us on the wings coming from Salah and Mane. With Both Asensio and Lucas helping Marcelo and Carvajal respectively, we might be able to combat that.

I don't see the point of the 4-5-1 unless we can just utterly dominate the midfield and I just don't see that happening.
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by Adit on Wed May 02, 2018 6:21 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:4-4-2 All the way for me. Like Bayern, Liverpool are going to attack us on the wings coming from Salah and Mane. With Both Asensio and Lucas helping Marcelo and Carvajal respectively, we might be able to combat that.

I don't see the point of the 4-5-1 unless we can just utterly dominate the midfield and I just don't see that happening.
what do you think we are going to start Asensio and Lucas in a 442 benching one of kroos modric or case

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by The Madrid One on Wed May 02, 2018 6:26 pm

For me to feel more secure with a 442 i would wish we still had someone like prime Coentrao, someone who can move fast,  tackle well, and win aerial duels next to Modric, and Benzema and Ronaldo at the top of their capabilities.

I think i'd feel more safe with 433/451, and it'd be good to test it out in remaining league games to see if we can improve our use of such systems. Could also be a final of two systems.

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 6:30 pm

@Adit wrote:
@vanDEEZ wrote:4-4-2 All the way for me. Like Bayern, Liverpool are going to attack us on the wings coming from Salah and Mane. With Both Asensio and Lucas helping Marcelo and Carvajal respectively, we might be able to combat that.

I don't see the point of the 4-5-1 unless we can just utterly dominate the midfield and I just don't see that happening.
what do you think we are going to start Asensio and Lucas in a 442 benching one of kroos modric or case


I think the decision should be based on form. Modric has been playing well but Casemiro and Kroos have both been under performing as of late. If I had to make a decision right now I'd drop Casemiro like we did against Bayern.
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by terrance511 on Wed May 02, 2018 8:26 pm

how about this lineup

ronaldo benzema
marcelo kovacic modrid assensio
nacho ramos varane carvajal

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by Clutch on Wed May 02, 2018 8:58 pm

We need to sit back against liverpool of that's possible. If we dominate possession, we'll get crushed on the counter

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by The Madrid One on Wed May 02, 2018 9:08 pm

We would not survive getting caught on break or in transition with too much space between defenders and midfielders. I would consider replacing Kroos with Kovacic in a three man midfield.

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm

A point that Unique brought up just further confirmed my thinking of the approach to this final. We are not going win by trying to control the match. We have to try to out-score them.

Defend deep, but when we have the ball we have to go at them. Players like Isco and Kroos might be terribly out of place and redundant - aka we don't need tempo players we need pace and directness: Asensio, Lucas, Bale even (I just threw up in my mouth a bit).
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by sportsczy on Wed May 02, 2018 9:52 pm

I disagree. We should not try to out-score Liverpool. They're at their best when they have pace and can utilize the speed of Salah and Mane. I would actually set up very cautiously to allow for plenty of help on the wings.

Last thing you want to do is push up and leave space and numbers behind you.

They don't have targetmen like Cavani, Higuain, Mandzu, Lewa, etc. We're not in danger in the air like we have been over the past 3 ties. So crossing against a set defense is not really a concern for us against Liverpool imo.

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 02, 2018 9:56 pm

At this point I wouldn't mind if Kroos gets benched. He shows no effort.

I want Modric, Casemiro and Isco to start the rest is up for grabs (midfield and attack minus Ron)

Navas
Carvajal-Varane-Ramos-Marcelo
Lucas-Modric-Casemiro-IscoDisco
Benz/Asensio-Ronaldo

I am leaning with Benz here. Liverpool couldn't deal with the physicality of Dzeko. We will need that from Benz. Also these guys were dead by the 70th min. Naingolan walked back after his penalty goal, unreal fittness. If the game had gone to ET i bet these guys would've done a Sweden v Denmark.


Last edited by halamadrid2 on Wed May 02, 2018 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 10:11 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I disagree.  We should not try to out-score Liverpool.  They're at their best when they have pace and can utilize the speed of Salah and Mane.  I would actually set up very cautiously to allow for plenty of help on the wings.

Last thing you want to do is push up and leave space and numbers behind you.

They don't have targetmen like Cavani, Higuain, Mandzu, Lewa, etc.  We're not in danger in the air like we have been over the past 3 ties.  So crossing against a set defense is not really a concern for us against Liverpool imo.


I'm not saying to play a high defensive line- I am saying the opposite. I think we should play the counter game just like they do.

If we try to control the midfield, it's going to inevitably lead to them scoring. I don't think we can stop them scoring. I do put faith in Ronaldo scoring. It's really all we have so I think we have to match them and hope our guys are on their game.

We need another performance from Benz, we need Ronaldo to be his Ronaldo self, and assuming Bale is on the bench we might need a spark.
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Everytime Roma launched a long ball, only Dzeko was making 4/5 defenders tremble around him. Unreal game by him. Benz isn't that strong but I think he's stronger than their CBs
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 10:21 pm

VvD begs to differ. A huge contributor to Roma creeping back into the games in both legs is because of how Liverpool play, they burned out, not to mention they knew 5 goals was enough in the first leg and they got complacent in the second after going 2-1 up.


Last edited by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 02, 2018 10:40 pm

They never went 2-0 up. They went 2-1 up hmm

I agree that it looked like it was a too little too late performance by Roma. But Dzeko was unplayable. Those 2 CBs couldn't handle him. If he was a tad younger and faster he would have driven Roma to the final. Our last season tactic aka cross bot would have been a perfect tactic against Liverpool. Too bad we sold Mariano and Morata
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed May 02, 2018 10:47 pm

Right 2-1 my b.
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by sportsczy on Wed May 02, 2018 10:55 pm

We smash Liverpool imo.  I think we score 6-7 goals on that defense.

Our issue isn't in games where we feel pressure... it's when we relax and don't feel pressure. Plenty of pressure here.

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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 02, 2018 11:04 pm

Lol na when was the last time we had a blow out victory. That'll never happen. It would've been possible last season. But this team is like a wounded soldier right now. If we win, it is because we scraped past them. I lost hope in some of these guys raising their levels in CL after seeing them v Juve and Bayern.
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Re: 442 or 451 for the final?

Post by Turok_TTZ on Wed May 02, 2018 11:05 pm

I am cobfident of our triumph but in order for us to win, Zidane must take complacency out to the back with a baseball bat and bash its brains in. Liverpool are strong. Klopp has done a very good job restoring Liverpool to near their former glory. we cannot underestimate them. eepecially as their frontline has better form than even our own.

442 comes into mind. we cant do a 4312 or a 451, i want security on the flanks. liverpool's weakness is in their backline. theye are prone to be leaky. having 2 forwards in Ronaldo and Benz will ensure we put pressure ln those cbs. we csnt let them get comfortable with just one.

i dont think their midfield is better than ours. not by s long shot. at the same time, our midfield in general need to improve their form before the big game. Kroos comes into mind as well as casemiro.

we have the better team but formwise liverpool has the advantage. I favor us but make no mistake, Klopp will not make this easy for us at all.

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