Real Madrid and Franco

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:20 pm

I've been very curious over this, but was it true that we once in a time got help by Franco to beat Barca which led to our 5 UCLs?

As far as I'm aware we were just as heavily affected as Barca by Franco, but knowing their might be members more aware of the story, I'd be interessted to hear from someone who knows about this area.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:28 pm

someone get football bill here since he is actually spanish unlike most of us. id figure he can elaborate far better.

to my knowledge... no.

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:30 pm

I was also thinking of Bill when I made this. Considiring his age he would know this the best.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:32 pm

you can read this

http://real.theoffside.com/editorialopinion/whiter-than-you-think-a-history-lesson.html

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Post by Pedram on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:32 pm

I read from somewhere that Franco was a Pathetico fan. whenever they use Franco's excuse for our honours i laugh at them.
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Post by Doc on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:37 pm

Depends on who you ask. A Barcelona fan born and raised in Barcelona would probably respond "Is the Pope Catholic".


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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:50 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you can read this

http://real.theoffside.com/editorialopinion/whiter-than-you-think-a-history-lesson.html

thanks for the read. santiago was a fascinating man, what a hero
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:53 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you can read this

http://real.theoffside.com/editorialopinion/whiter-than-you-think-a-history-lesson.html
That article claims that at HT the score was 8-0, whereas I've read on many other places that it was actually 1-1. Do we have any primary sources to go by?

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:57 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you can read this

http://real.theoffside.com/editorialopinion/whiter-than-you-think-a-history-lesson.html
That article claims that at HT the score was 8-0, whereas I've read on many other places that it was actually 1-1. Do we have any primary sources to go by?

It does bring up that Catalan could be spoken:
"- The Guardia Civil agents that supposedly entered Barcelona’s changing room could not
threaten them for speaking in Catalan, since the law banning its public use had been repealed in 1942, the match taking place in 1943. "

Which takes away 1 argument,

"- The only referee’s warning on record was a call for both teams for fair play.
Taking a look at that era, the notion of Franco helping Real Madrid in its victories over his years of government in Spain emerges as certainly odd: while the General won the war in 1939, Real Madrid wasn’t able to grab a title or a cup until 1947, and didn’t win the league until 1954. Instead, during that same period, Barcelona and Athletic Bilbao, two of the clubs based in the supposedly most anti-Franco regions of Spain, were the clubs that won more titles (one League and four Cups for Bilbao and a whopping five leagues and four cups for Barcelona). Regarding the match this chapter deals with, one could hardly understand how Franco’s men could have helped Real Madrid win Barcelona 11-1 and let them lose the Cup final against Bilbao (0-1). Kind of a waste, huh? "


It's not the first time I've heard that the more succesful team out of Real Madrid and Barca during Franco regime was Barca.

"Lastly, Bernardo Salazar, one of Spain’s most recognized sports historians (supporter of Real’s rival Atlético Madrid), has explained in one of his writings how two of Barcelona’s players in that game assured him they had never received any kind of pressure of the authorities in order to lose the match.

Those players are José Escolá, who played the 90 minutes that day, and Domingo Balmanya – very assiduous commentator on the media, hardly the secretive guy-, who didn’t play but was at Old Chamartín with his club mates. "
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:01 pm

I asked what the score was at half time, you answer me with completely irrelevant points towards my question...

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I asked what the score was at half time, you answer me with completely irrelevant points towards my question...

I'm sorry, I must have pressed multi-quote/quote on accident, did not notice the quote was there. XD


Last edited by omarish on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:05 pm

I dont know if we do, it would be something to look into. i wonder if we can get anything from the archives of the spanish fed

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:07 pm

In the El Clasico Wikipedia, it says 8-0 halftime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cl%C3%A1sico#Copa_del_Rey_matches

T/H
11-1 / 8-0
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Post by guest7 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:10 pm

And just becouse I know alot of people uses the "You can edit Wikipedia yourself"-argument, you can check the web history and what and who edited it. The last man who edited it and if you read his contributions seem to know abit about of the story.
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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:17 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:you can read this

http://real.theoffside.com/editorialopinion/whiter-than-you-think-a-history-lesson.html
That article claims that at HT the score was 8-0, whereas I've read on many other places that it was actually 1-1. Do we have any primary sources to go by?

RSSSF has it recorded that the score was 8-0 at HT, about as unbiased and historical as you can get.

I know alot of people would love to think Franco helped us especially the Barcelona fans but that simply is not the case.

Did Franco offer us any help when our stadium burnt to the ground? Nope

Did Franco in fact offer us any money in order to help build a new stadium? Nope

Did Yeste in fact ban certain members of Franco's political group and army from attending games at our new stadium? Yes

If you do your history research you would know Franco came into power in 1938, Real Madrid did not win it's first La Liga title in Franco's reign until 1953-54. But of course that makes sense as Yeste's overall plan was already well in place then, to create a team of superstars from across the world. And in by doing so creating a team that conquered Europe 5 years running. If you look into Yeste's history you would know he had several grand designs for the club and for football in general as he was one of the masterminds behind the European Cup as well.

In fact when Yeste was trying to gather loans for the club and the stadium many thought Real Madrid to be too small a club of such grand designs in both the stadium to be built and Yeste's project.

But of course once Real Madrid had it's team in place we were very successful in Europe and in Spain, especially when you consider the list of talent we had gathered.

In fact at the time this so called 11-1 incident occurred Real Madrid didn't even have a stadium lmao and we had not even won La Liga in 10 years. Not to mention we had not won the CdR in 6 years. Hardly sounds like a team favoured by the government....

Oh but to the Barcelona fans mention that they won the CdR the season before this so called incident? Or the fact that they doing quite well in the league?

But I guess its all too easy to blame someone else and ignore the facts......

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:35 pm

Pathetico was franco's team

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Post by S32TABLANCA on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:57 pm

This is a very complicated and touchy subject, and though I think I know a bit about it, futbol bill is probably the best guy to explain it to us, but I doubt he would want to talk about such a topic.

One thing for sure though, Franco was not the reason for the European Cups and therefore Real Madrid's entire history of success. Its way more complex than that.
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Post by Shamirr on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:03 am

Yo nick who's the chick in your sig? That's the most important question for me...

Don Santiago thought Franco and his cronies were ungentlemanly tools! Read his bio in the legends thread... Franco was not a friend of Madrid, he tried to associate himself with the club because of it's success but the club did not associate with him, or garner any help from him. Like I said read the bio in Legends (yes it is poorly written because I pasted and re-edited a number of diff sources but it does cover some incidents of direct opposition to franco by Don Santiago)


Nick can you please post the article with reference and link to the OG site in the RM Legend thread. It'll be good to keep it on record here. Thumbs up

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Post by Yuri Yukuv on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:27 am

Do you guys know piques full name?

Gerard Piqué i Bernabéu

Bernabeu is actually a catalan name

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Post by Doc on Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:55 am

Real Madrid 1st president was Catalan...

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:58 pm

You guys think I'm a lot older. I wasn't yet born when that game occured. I wasn't around in the difficult days of Franco. My childhood memories of Franco were the more mellow days.

But I doubt whether any of this is true. Franco did support the Madrid teams, but he was more for Atletico. There always has been an intense rivalry between Barcelona and Mardid, which leads to all kinds of theories of conspiracy. There is always stories of referree favoritism, special treatment of campo to gain an advantage etc from both sides. We saw it last year in the classicos. Also keep in mind that the papers love controversy. We've seen Marca this year make stories up, just to sell papers. Marca is the biggest sports paper in Spain by a large margin. I don't these stories about Franco are any different.

The reality is we have 2 great futbol teams that we can be proud of and the rivalry is great as a fan and good for business. I seriously doubt whether there is any cheating going on, but that doesn't stop team, club, coaches, players from doing anything they can (legally) to gain an advantage.
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Post by hrealmadrid on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:29 pm

If you read the book Soccernomics it explains how Franco's policies helped boost the sport in general based on the ideas he allowed in and the funding he regulated.
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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:38 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:If you read the book Soccernomics it explains how Franco's policies helped boost the sport in general based on the ideas he allowed in and the funding he regulated.

I'm assuming that book is in english so right away it's a biased story. We know that Franco did a lot of bad things during his time, but to say he had corrupt influence on Real Madrid, I believe it's a stretch. I have a lot of friends that are Barca fans (everyone in Spain is either for Real Madrid or Barcelona - in addition to whatever local team they might support) and we just believe it's an intense futbol rivalry, nothing more.

These stories are just some media folks trying to stir up controversy.
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Post by hrealmadrid on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:44 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:If you read the book Soccernomics it explains how Franco's policies helped boost the sport in general based on the ideas he allowed in and the funding he regulated.

I'm assuming that book is in english so right away it's a biased story. We know that Franco did a lot of bad things during his time, but to say he had corrupt influence on Real Madrid, I believe it's a stretch. I have a lot of friends that are Barca fans (everyone in Spain is either for Real Madrid or Barcelona - in addition to whatever local team they might support) and we just believe it's an intense futbol rivalry, nothing more.

These stories are just some media folks trying to stir up controversy.

This had nothing to do with Madrid or Barcelona. It had to do with his economic policies and how what he allowed into/out of the country subsequently affected football. The book is purely statistical.
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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:23 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:If you read the book Soccernomics it explains how Franco's policies helped boost the sport in general based on the ideas he allowed in and the funding he regulated.

I'm assuming that book is in english so right away it's a biased story. We know that Franco did a lot of bad things during his time, but to say he had corrupt influence on Real Madrid, I believe it's a stretch. I have a lot of friends that are Barca fans (everyone in Spain is either for Real Madrid or Barcelona - in addition to whatever local team they might support) and we just believe it's an intense futbol rivalry, nothing more.

These stories are just some media folks trying to stir up controversy.

This had nothing to do with Madrid or Barcelona. It had to do with his economic policies and how what he allowed into/out of the country subsequently affected football. The book is purely statistical.

This thread was about a suggested Franco fixed game between Barca and RMadrid.They were asking me if I knew if there was any truth to it - nothing about the english book you are referring to!!!!!
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