Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

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Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Blue Barrett on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:48 am

All of Brazil's greats in this category won at least 1 WC and were typically the star powers behind the WC wins.

Ronaldinho
Kaka
Ronaldo
Pele
Rivaldo
Cafu
Romario
Vava
Zico
Socrates
Roberto Carlos
Bebeto

Needs to sit down somewhere and stop acting like he created football in Brazil. The fact that he's a shameless diver makes it even worse. At least if you're going to dive, make sure you win the game. Laughing

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:59 am

Are you talking about skill wise, how great a player he is, or career achievements with Brazil NT?

Because i can easily argue that Neymar is as good a footballer Kaka or Rivaldo were, if not better even, but none of those guys won anything with Brazil without some elite cast around.

If if look at today's brazil team, i can argue that Neymar could have used help like Rivaldo had R9 playing with him, or Ronaldinho? Romario played with Bebeto, etc...

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Kebab on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:04 am

Unluckiest brazilian ever. skillwise best player in the world (considering messi is aged). but will not win any trophy or ballon dor. he should not waste a minute and go to real madrid this season
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Doc on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 am

Just on a side note, if there was any of those players that really should have been on a WC winning team, it was Zico. I really do envy the lads who got to see him play week in/week out. What a damn good footballer.

As for the topic, Neymar would more than likely go down as one of the Brasil's finest exports. Great footballer but the team itself is not a great one. Fagner ain't Cafu or Carlos Alberto or Nilton Santos. Marcelo ain't Roberto Carlos or Djalma Santos (or even Junior from '82). Don't get me started on the midfield. I don't see a Didi, Mauro Silva, Edmilson or Zito.

As for the forwards, where is the support that Pele had with Garrincha, Rivelino, Vava, Altafani that Neymar has? Ronaldo had both Rivaldo and Ronaldinho. Romario and Bebeto were an excellent partnership despite not particularly liking one another. Who is riding shot with Neymar? Coutinho? No goal Jesus? Firmino?

Nah, no matter what we like to think or like to say, it always takes a team to win a tournament and Brasil, this edition anyway, simply was not good enough.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Robespierre on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:16 am

Zico and Socrates have won 0 WC
Not even Kaka has to do with this thread, because he was just one of last reserves in 2002
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by zigra on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:25 pm

This team was good enough to beat Belgium. They created loads of chances and if they score one of them they go on and win the game. Neymar had some of these chances and he didn't score from them. You can always blame something but in the end this was a big match and he definitely was presented with enough chances to shine. He didn't. That's the end of the story.
If he stays in shape he should still get one more chance though.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Luca on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:58 pm

I’d love a detailed explanation of how Kaka was the star power behind a World Cup win
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Harmonica on Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:00 pm

Kaka Laughing

No Jairzinho, Garrincha or Didi. Laughing

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Cruijf on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Amazing how Nick now conveniently decides "his team wasn't good enough" is an acceptable excuse Laughing

This Brazil team is 10x as good as Argentina but of course he'll ignore that

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:26 pm

Pele
Garrincha
R9
Zico
Ronaldinho
Romario
Jairzinho
Socrates
Falcao
Gerson
Rivellino

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:28 pm

@Cruijf wrote:Amazing how Nick now conveniently decides "his team wasn't good enough" is an acceptable excuse Laughing

This Brazil team is 10x as good as Argentina but of course he'll ignore that
why do people like you try to lump all conversations together? this thread has nothing to do with Messi's thread when you guys were trying to rate how good he was in this world cup.

try to grow a brain and dont @ me please


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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Well of course Brazil has produced 10 better players than Neymar. How is this even controversial?

If you look at the 3 all time GOATs for every position chances are you will find at least 1 Brazilian in there. Neymar is barely top 3 in his position in his own era, let alone break into the top 10 ever a cross all positions.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:15 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Well of course Brazil has produced 10 better players than Neymar. How is this even controversial?

If you look at the 3 all time GOATs for every position chances are you will find at least 1 Brazilian in there. Neymar is barely top 3 in his position in his own era, let alone break into the top 10 ever a cross all positions.

Thank god you're here BC... an Argentina fan too.  People forget what an incredible history Brazil had had since forever.

The only exceptions are goalkeeper and CB. Some good ones... but historically not on par with the rest of the positions. But your point stands completely.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Cruijf on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:20 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Cruijf wrote:Amazing how Nick now conveniently decides "his team wasn't good enough" is an acceptable excuse Laughing

This Brazil team is 10x as good as Argentina but of course he'll ignore that
why do people like you try to lump all conversations together? this thread has nothing to do with Messi's thread when you guys were trying to rate how good he was in this world cup.

try to grow a brain and dont @ me please



It's very simple lol. When people tried to explain to you that Messi underperformed because he was playing with a midfield and defence that were truly abysmal and couldn't get him the ball you said we were just making excuses. Yet here you're saying Neymar's not to blame for failing to make it past the QF in his prime because he needs Ronaldinho and R9 to perform Laughing

At least people like zigra are consistent, you just flip flop based on convenience.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:36 pm

@Cruijf wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Cruijf wrote:Amazing how Nick now conveniently decides "his team wasn't good enough" is an acceptable excuse Laughing

This Brazil team is 10x as good as Argentina but of course he'll ignore that
why do people like you try to lump all conversations together? this thread has nothing to do with Messi's thread when you guys were trying to rate how good he was in this world cup.

try to grow a brain and dont @ me please



It's very simple lol. When people tried to explain to you that Messi underperformed because he was playing with a midfield and defence that were truly abysmal and couldn't get him the ball you said we were just making excuses. Yet here you're saying Neymar's not to blame for failing to make it past the QF in his prime because he needs Ronaldinho and R9 to perform Laughing

At least people like zigra are consistent, you just flip flop based on convenience.
because you are clearly challenged and you can't read i will say it again.

Skill wise, Neymar is as good a brazilian player as i have seen in the past 15 years. He is not far from Ronaldinho's prime in my opinion.

I thought he had a good game vs Belgium, i am not blaming him at all. But if you want to compare him to guys like Kaka or Rivaldo, then i would argue that he could have used more help to win the world cup. i saw him create chances vs Belgium that Coutinho and co completely missed and thus they went out.

As for Messi, you guys thought that he had a good world cup overall? i dont. Moreover, we are on a completely different plane with messi, to me he is a top 4 player of all time. I compare Messi with Maradona. and because i have such high expectations for him, knowing what he can do with ball, i am disappointed he did not do more to lift his team up.

the argument/conversation about Messi has nothing to do with this thread. We are not appreciating Neymar's world cup here, we are arguing how good a brazilian player he is compared to other brazilian greats.

get a clue pls

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Cruijf on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:12 pm

Either you consider the supporting cast when you judge a player's performance or you don't. In all the posts you've made about Messi's WC you've continuously refused to acknowledge just how bad Argentina is and the impact that had on his ability to influence games. Yet the second someone criticizes Neymar's WC you say it's because he didn't have R9 and Ronaldinho? I don't really care what you think of Messi or where you rate him, I'm just asking you to be consistent. If you (rightfully) acknowledge that Neymar was hindered by his team than you have to do the same to Messi. And yes Messi has higher standards than Neymar but he also had a much worse team.

And I don't think a single person said Messi had a good world cup overall. Yes he choked against Iceland, yes he could've finished that chance against France, I agree with all of that. But ultimately Messi was hindered by his team. No matter how well Messi played this trash team was not going anywhere.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Clutch on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:20 pm

Top 10 Brazilian of all time Laughing

Kakas 09 confed shits on anything neymar has done for Brazil lol

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by breva on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:57 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Are you talking about skill wise, how great a player he is, or career achievements with Brazil NT?

Because i can easily argue that Neymar is as good a footballer Kaka or Rivaldo were, if not better even, but none of those guys won anything with Brazil without some elite cast around.

If if look at today's brazil team, i can argue that Neymar could have used help like Rivaldo had R9 playing with him, or Ronaldinho? Romario played with Bebeto, etc...


Neymar is not as good a footballer as Kaka' or Rivaldo.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Socur Toxanarosa on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:29 am

Well, his career isn't over yet. In terms of pure talent? Top 5 for sure with the likes of Pelé, Ronaldo and Romário.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:32 am

@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:Well, his career isn't over yet. In terms of pure talent? Top 5 for sure with the likes of Pelé, Ronaldo and Romário.

This is complete bullshit and you know it. Shame on you if you're truly Brazilian.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:34 am

@cruijf... Argentina was PLENTY talented. The tactics and team selection, however, were incredibly naive. That's what did them in.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:26 pm

@Socur Toxanarosa wrote:Well, his career isn't over yet. In terms of pure talent? Top 5 for sure with the likes of Pelé, Ronaldo and Romário.


No way man. If he were on par with those guys he would be owning every pitch he's on. Is prime Neymar even better than prime Kaka, Ronaldinho or Rivaldo? How can we even compare him to older legends like Garrincha or Zico?

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:29 pm

There isn't such a thing as "pure talent".
You could just as well argue that not being an annoying, selfish, easily distracted little bitch is also a part of the talent a footballing legend needs to have.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 pm

We haven't even talked about the next tier strikers... like Careca whom I thought was absolutely exceptional. Despite Brazil getting beat early in 1986 and 1990 WCs, Careca was a very bright spot. Brazil lost to Platini's France in 86 and Maradonna's Argentina in 1990... those were even games. They punished the other teams.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Doc on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:17 pm

That supposed top 5 list Neymar found himself generously in really is ignoring the likes of Zico, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Vava, Rivaldo, Kaka, Rivelino, Gerson. Hell, the likes of Tostão and Socrates also have a serious claim to be on that list.

Neymar has a lot of men to jump over to even claim to be in the top 10, far less for top 5.

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