Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Doc on Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:44 pm

My sample size is really small so I really shouldn't use this but it's GL and it's basically law to jump to conclusions with little data. Anyway, I am not really seeing Neymar being outshone at PSG...by anyone on the team. He is still very much their best player and without him, they are gonna be lacking a serious element in their attack.

Outside of that though, yeah, he should really just hush sometimes.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Myesyats on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:05 pm

@Kebab wrote:He has 1-2 years left to loose his best ability, which is carrying the ball at speed
You dont notice it with messi because he was best at many things, after losing his speed he uses his scoring and passing to stay in the top.
But neymar without speed will not be neymar. He needed to move to Madrid this season. I have never seen such a wasted career

Neymar's career is already great, far from wasted. The only thing he's lacking is a WC but so does Messi. People are so mad lol

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:08 pm

tbf if Neymar wanted people to actually watch him and make educated comments about his performance he shouldn't have joined a semi-retirement league

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Neymar will be forgotten 5 years after his retirement, his highlights will be a must-see on Youtube if anything.

Maybe in Brazil his legacy will last longer (bring them the Olympic gold medal) and because of from their poor generation he remains by far the best player. But in Europe his career is ambiguous, outshone by Messi at Barca and now he dominates a second tier league with QSG who are irrelevant in CL, never taken seriously. Not even a likeable guy, notoriously he is just a pussy who cries and dives. Wasted career in terms of what most people expected which was the "best thing since slice bread" narrative.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Kaladin on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:52 pm

You'd think people here are talking about Fred rather than Neymar

Here's who's going to be forgotten

Oscar (if he already isn't)
Douglas Costa
Lucas
Coutinho
Willian
Firmino


Neymar has mass media and marketing behind him, he's the face of Brazil and won't be forgotten, just like Ronaldinho, all the advertisements and whatnot, the clout he has is similar. Y'all need to wake up.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by LeBéninois on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:15 am

He is still 26 Just rating...

Wont be forgotten at all, he's already in the same bracket as Kaka or even Ronaldinho. Dont Forget he is not playing in a stacked team.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Clutch on Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:08 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Neymar is now the sole holder of the Scrub Killer crown, left vacant by Di Maria few years ago.

I have never seen such a good player in NT friendlies in my life. He is chopping down Pele's scoring record for Brazil by scrub killing some of the worst teams ever, like Saudi Arabia or El Salvador. But at 26, after 2 World cups and as many Copa America, he still hasn't delivered by quality for his country.

For clubs, he hid behind Messi's shadow at Barca for years and we are still pending the results due to his injury last year. Furthermore, Mbappe risks to outshine him at club level as well, due to his directness and his quality winning games as we have already seen in Ligue 1.

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You're forgetting the illustrious 2013 confed cup performance where he finally showed the world that Spain really ain't shit

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BusterLfc on Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:25 am

Neymar only misses a WC, he was great in 2014 WC carried an average Brazil side to semi final and when he got injured (and Thiago Silva too tbf) Brazil fell apart. Last WC he just came back from injury.

People are judging Neymar as if his career is over already and he retired today, he is still 26 with his best years ahead of him and I think he will move to Madrid next summer if they don't bring Hazard or someone like that. His career is already great and he achieved almost everything (except WC), not to mention he is a highly marketable player.

People just hate Neymar because of his diving and other shit he does which I dislike him for too but I can't deny he is a great player.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Kebab on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:29 am

@Myesyats wrote:
@Kebab wrote:He has 1-2 years left to loose his best ability, which is carrying the ball at speed
You dont notice it with messi because he was best at many things, after losing his speed he uses his scoring and passing to stay in the top.
But neymar without speed will not be neymar. He needed to move to Madrid this season. I have never seen such a wasted career

Neymar's career is already great, far from wasted. The only thing he's lacking is a WC but so does Messi. People are so mad lol
He doesnt lack only WC he lacks 90% things that Messi won. 3 CL being "main man" and 3 ballon dor then i will be a little satisfied. He deserves more, only messi deserves more than him in the last decades. But he is behind about 200 players in achievements and its certanly wasted. For me he is top 3 in the last 20 years, not top 200
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BarcaLearning on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:51 pm

Funny, since he left Barca in order to become a bigger star or so it was claimed. He was such a exciting prospect when everyone wanted to sign him from Santos, and after Barca got him, took him a bit of time but he really shone for us and it was great to watch him. Not gonna comment of him and PSG and currently though..., dont watch them enough, but he still seem to be good for them, an if they can go far in CL it will raise theirs and his level of appreciation by the fans.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Cruijf on Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:04 pm

@LeBéninois wrote:he's already in the same bracket as Kaka or even Ronaldinho. Dont Forget he is not playing in a stacked team.


As a player maybe. I'm biased because I watched Kaka in his prime for my favourite team, so I won't get into that argument. But his overall career is not as good as those two. What has he achieved? No WC, no Balon D'or, no CL as the main man. If he retired now his career would be one of a ton of talent and great performances, but lacking delivery at the highest level.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:24 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Funny, since he left Barca in order to become a bigger star or so it was claimed. He was such a exciting prospect when everyone wanted to sign him from Santos, and after Barca got him, took him a bit of time but he really shone for us and it was great to watch him. Not gonna comment of him and PSG and currently though..., dont watch them enough, but he still seem to be good for them, an if they can go far in CL it will raise theirs and his level of appreciation by the fans.

He was scarily good against us last season as well. He would easily erase at least two defenders from existence every time he touched the ball. He created countless chances on his own and was a constant threat to Madrid throughout the game. His only problem is his inability to let go of the ball when needed. He wasted so many chances because he wanted to dribble the entire team and was too selfish to pass it to someone else.

I remember there were many times when he could've easily scored, yet chose to dribble instead, and ultimately ended up squandering the chance.

Ironically enough, he could've easily and single-handedly knocked out Madrid from the CL, but ended up being the main reason his team lost in the first leg.

His talent is undeniable, but if he ever goes though the history books unnoticed, it'll be because of his immaturity and ego.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Art Morte on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:33 pm

You cannot choose PSG as the club to spend your prime at and expect to be recognised as one of the greats.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Clutch on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:52 pm

Unless if he wins the CL with PSG. That would solidify it.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by LeBéninois on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:37 pm

@Art Morte wrote:You cannot choose PSG as the club to spend your prime at and expect to be recognised as one of the greats.


True , imo he's out of there in 2 years top

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by LeBéninois on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:52 pm

@Cruijf wrote:
@LeBéninois wrote:he's already in the same bracket as Kaka or even Ronaldinho. Dont Forget he is not playing in a stacked team.


As a player maybe. I'm biased because I watched Kaka in his prime for my favourite team, so I won't get into that argument. But his overall career is not as good as those two. What has he achieved? No WC, no Balon D'or, no CL as the main man. If he retired now his career would be one of a ton of talent and great performances, but lacking delivery at the highest level.


He's still 26 so he has 4-5 years to win that CL as the main man ala Kaka 2007. He chose QSG for that ( and 40 millions a year ) , let's see how it ends up .

For the WC, imo he did a good job carrying a poor Brazilian side into semis finals in 2014 , did a good job in 2018 considering he was just coming back from an injury . Also He is not playing in a stacked team like Kaka and Ronaldinho did .

He must work on his attitude tho . Most kids today will put him in their GOAT list tho just like we did with Kaka, Ronaldinho etc... that's how it is.


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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:09 pm

I will disagree with you re his WC performances.

He did carry that 2014 team, but they were the favorites and overall performed poorly. Neymar at that point was an emerging super star, so he was expected to lead, but bottom line they underperformed. And kids at that point likely only knew his name.

In the years between 2014 and 2018, he was starting to live up to his potential, and thus kids would then be well aware of who he was, but he was under the shadow of Messi and to a certain extent Suarez. Then when looking at last season, nothing but underperforming.

In 2018 WC, it was again an underperforming team again favourites going into tournament, and all the kids saw was a diving diva!

So in sum, you are right he is only 26 and has 4-5 years to make an impact! But to date, he has done nothing to warrent him being described as a top 10 Brasilian.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by farfan on Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:59 pm

I don't really agree with the weak league narrative tbh. ( I'm biased obviously)

Nothing has changed for him, he will need to lead a team to a CL trophy and lift the World cup if he wants the recognition and status that he wants. Both feats are possible with PSG and Brazil.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by LeBéninois on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:50 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:I will disagree with you re his WC performances.

He did carry that 2014 team, but they were the favorites and overall performed poorly. Neymar at that point was an emerging super star, so he was expected to lead, but bottom line they underperformed. And kids at that point likely only knew his name.

In the years between 2014 and 2018, he was starting to live up to his potential, and thus kids would then be well aware of who he was, but he was under the shadow of Messi and to a certain extent Suarez. Then when looking at last season, nothing but underperforming.

In 2018 WC, it was again an underperforming team again favourites going into tournament, and all the kids saw was a diving diva!

So in sum, you are right he is only 26 and has 4-5 years to make an impact! But to date, he has done nothing to warrent him being described as a top 10 Brasilian.


Agree with you on most part but I never considered Brazil as favorite to win it. Fred was the starting n9 ffs . The only ''advantage '' they had was playing at home but in terms of pure talent , it was the weakest I have seen .


Goalkeepers: Julio Cesar (Toronto FC), Jefferson (Botafogo), Victor (Atletico Mineiro)


Defenders: Marcelo (Real Madrid), Daniel Alves (Barcelona), Maicon (AS Roma), Maxwell, Thiago Silva (both Paris St Germain), David Luiz (Chelsea), Dante (Bayern Munich), Henrique (Napoli)


Midfielders: Paulinho (Tottenham Hotspur), Ramires, Willian, Oscar (all Chelsea), Hernanes (Inter Milan), Luiz Gustavo (VfL Wolfsburg), Fernandinho (Manchester City)


Forwards: Bernard (Shakhtar Donetsk), Neymar (Barcelona), Fred (Fluminense), Jo (Atletico Mineiro), Hulk (Zenit St Petersburg)

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Art Morte on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 pm

@farfan wrote:I don't really agree with the weak league narrative tbh. ( I'm biased obviously)

Nothing has changed for him, he will need to lead a team to a CL trophy and lift the World cup if he wants the recognition and status that he wants. Both feats are possible with PSG and Brazil.


They're possible, but if they don't happen, then his Ligue 1 tenure will really hurt his reputation.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Mamad on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Neymar is better than Romario. and this judgement is based on watching 4 minutes of Romario playing against ManUnited. so it could be wrong.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:25 pm

@LeBéninois wrote:He is still 26 Just rating...

Wont be forgotten at all, he's already in the same bracket as Kaka or even Ronaldinho. Dont Forget he is not playing in a stacked team.

I don't think this is fair to Ronaldinho. Sometimes I feel people have forgotten how insanely good he was in his prime.

I like Neymar a lot and I think he's very talented, but Ronaldinho is on a whole different level.

I wouldn't choose Neymar in my all-time best team, but Ronaldhinho would definitely make the cut. Technically speaking, he was a God.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Art Morte on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:38 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@LeBéninois wrote:He is still 26 Just rating...

Wont be forgotten at all, he's already in the same bracket as Kaka or even Ronaldinho. Dont Forget he is not playing in a stacked team.

I don't think this is fair to Ronaldinho. Sometimes I feel people have forgotten how insanely good he was in his prime.

I like Neymar a lot and I think he's very talented, but Ronaldinho is on a whole different level.

I wouldn't choose Neymar in my all-time best team, but Ronaldhinho would definitely make the cut. Technically speaking, he was a God.


Ronaldinho was truly one of a kind. He was like Da Vinci. But his prime was, like, three years and one youtube compilation. That simply counts against him. I'd give a night with Hans to see one prime year of Ronaldinho, but just like with Hans, there's the glaring problem of Ronaldinho failing to keep it up.
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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by sportsczy on Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:39 am

Romario was insane.  Really R9 before R9...  just had a bad attitude and felt homesickness, which cost him a legendary European career.

That said, Romario scored 30 for Vasco da Gama at the age of 40.  He was scoring 40-50 goals a season in his mid to late 30s for both Flamengo and Vasco.

The guy was a total freak of nature... and I probably saw him play in person a dozen times over his career.

679 goals in 886 games in top flight club football :bow: .
55 goals in 70 games for Brazil NT.

The fact that he didn't take it well when he was benched cost him with NT when R9 became a star.  They don't like each other.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by Doc on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:34 pm

@Mamad wrote:Neymar is better than Romario. and this judgement is based on watching 4 minutes of Romario playing against ManUnited. so it could be wrong.

Best way to judge any footballer imo, would allow it.

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Re: Neymar isn't a top 10 Brazillian footballer OAT

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:10 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Romario was insane.  Really R9 before R9...  just had a bad attitude and felt homesickness, which cost him a legendary European career.

That said, Romario scored 30 for Vasco da Gama at the age of 40.  He was scoring 40-50 goals a season in his mid to late 30s for both Flamengo and Vasco.

The guy was a total freak of nature... and I probably saw him play in person a dozen times over his career.

679 goals in 886 games in top flight club football :bow: .
55 goals in 70 games for Brazil NT.

The fact that he didn't take it well when he was benched cost him with NT when R9 became a star.  They don't like each other.

Remember there used to be arguments on him a lot, some love him some hate him. When on his game he was a goal machine... despite being a party animal Very Happy Although I never got to watch him since it was earlier times, so it must have been great see him real person Smile Still remember some of his highlights, for example the double hattrick by him and R9 together in one game. I always thought they got along, and R9 respected him a lot back then. Too bad really he fell out, and then we saw that Edmundo guy was like a beast too but a poorer version of Romario? Very Happy
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