The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:52 pm

The Clumsy Oaf scores for Bayern, 43 years and counting for hertha.

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:56 pm

Could not disagree more strongly. I watch basically every Bayern game week in week out and the change is completely palpable.
The team is deteriorating rapidly, in terms of how they cover the pitch, how compact they are, how good the passing is, how creative they are, how they manage to press, how they can control an opponent.

Who else would be responsible, if the team stayed the same but the manager changed?

That's not to say other factors aren't in play, but ultimately also the form of players, their level of motivation and concentration, is connected to the caches' performance.

And the reference to people playing football, probably a main difference between amateur and top level football is the amount of more intricate tactical stuff the players are expected to execute, and IMO the manager/coach, or trainer-coach as our beloved Louis calls it, is the most important person for the success of a top team, together maybe with a handful of exceptional players like Ribéry, Messi
Just because I happen to have U16 Kreisliga B level experience, doesn't make me a more informed football analyst.

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:14 pm

laughable red card

sadly, Lewandowski just is very very unlikeable

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:22 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Could not disagree more strongly. I watch basically every Bayern game week in week out and the change is completely palpable.
The team is deteriorating rapidly, in terms of how they cover the pitch, how compact they are, how good the passing is, how creative they are, how they manage to press, how they can control an opponent.

Who else would be responsible, if the team stayed the same but the manager changed?

So a new manager comes in and all of a sudden the players stop playing?  That is probably due to the players, some are older, some just seem to have lost the will to win (like all the German players).  A new manager does not have that big an effect, unless the players really dont like him and have lost their motivation.  Ther is new Manager effect, where player will try and impress the new coach, especially those not playing much.

It is like Saying JLow is responsible for the decline  German national team.  How come one day WC winners next day cant get out of the group stage, is that the coach as well?

You are just looking for a simple excuse or explanation, truth is no team dominates for ever. and that is for various reasons, not all due to coaching.



And the reference to people playing football, probably a main difference between amateur and top level football is the amount of more intricate tactical stuff the players are expected to execute, and IMO the manager/coach, or trainer-coach as our beloved Louis calls it, is the most important person for the success of a top team, together maybe with a handful of exceptional players like Ribéry, Messi
Just because I happen to have U16 Kreisliga B level experience, doesn't make me a more informed football analyst.


You develop more of your "footballing mindset" usually before you reach a top team.  If I went to Bayern at say 23 years old, I have developed certain habits and a certain way of playing, if I dont like slide tackling for example, it will take a lot to get me to slide tackle and play that way.  I do remember even as a young kid (13 years old or so) an old Austrian coach trying to get me to do just that,  I did it for that game, but I never became that "kind of player".

Yes at a better club and older you do more "tactical things" and you continually develop your skills, especially under better coaching, but at this level way too much  fault and credit for that matter are given to coaches.

You can be sure Pep is still doing simple drills like the "keepaway" game to develop skills all teams still do that-well maybe not Mourinho, he just practices throw ins and wind sprints- at all levels.  In every continent I have played on, the footballing "tactics" and training dont change that much.

And yes, if you have actually played a certain level of football, you should be more informed than the teenage Asian girl who only plays FIFA computer games
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:25 pm

Anyway the question I was trying to ask, is what is it you actually think Kovac is doing -or not doing- to make this big change in the team?
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:31 pm

Well, as I said, I've got the kind of experience where I played "Vorstopper", so none of the new fancy stuff applies to me anyway

But I think for these players, slight changes in the intensity and level of training drills do still make a difference.
For example, under Ancelotti Clement was the assistant who was said to be great at designing training drills for the players who qute apparently enjoyed training with him as they deemed it interesting and demanding.
Of course, we just let Clement leave midseason without bothering to replace him. A mere 9 months later, you hear a consummate professional like Arjen Robben complain about the low level of training intensity. Yes, our players complained they trained too little.
Same Arjen Robben keeps saying publicly how training under Pep was interesting and transforming even at age 30, when he thought there wasn't anything left for him to learn.
So yeah, surely there's no reinventions of the wheel going on in the training of top managers, but at the same time managers like Pep, or Klopp, seem to elicit a certain something special from their players to make them want to perform.

It's just very obvious the players are underwhelmed by Kovac. As a fan, I'm always exaggerating, but certainly they're at the very least underwhelmed and it has huge consequences on the performances.
Because it reinforces downward spirals of form, motivation, belief, confidence etc.

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:39 pm

They are underwhelmed by him because he younger and has less experience then half of the players. I will accept your answer and the judges consider it correct.

Next question:

Was Liverpool v Bayern in the midweek a tactical game in your opinion. You may not discuss openly beforehand but you may call a friend.

On the topic of Managers, I will say Christian Streich has all my respect. I actually think he is a manger that improves players and chooses the right styles to play. I just dont think he could do the coddling and managing of egos thing that is required if he managed a big club.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:52 pm

Honestly, vs Liverpool I think we got very, very lucky.

Better final ball by Liverpool, someone like Robertson not messing up crosses he usually delivers sopt on, less slapstick in finishing, and we go home with 0-3.

Because while our individual defending was great, Thiago, Martinez, Hummels, in reality Liverpool had all the space they wanted to get into good positions, and we couldn'z string 3 passes together to get out of our half for minutes and minutes.
Not to mention we created about one single chance in the whole game.

So honestly, no, I wouldn't call it particularly tactical. These games are called tactical masterclasses when in reality teams get lucky.

It's just, that after years of watching us play dominant, sovereign football, controlling opponents, I DON'T LIKE a FC Bayern trying to desperately hold on to a 0-0, feigning cramps.
Not just away at Liverpool (though one year ago noone would have considered Liverpool favourites vs us), but also at home vs Hertha.
We're actually struggling to defend a 1-0 lead, in added time, at home, vs a 10 men Hertha.

I don't think I have to apologize for hating that shit.

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:02 pm

about Streich, I think he would do a great job also with star players. If players realize a coach makes them better,  (or perform well within a team, which is basically the same), they respect and like him even if they're ambitious star player egomaniacs (because playing well is good for their career, and so a good coach is good for their career).
I would take him at Bayern no questions asked (also as NT team coach even that would be Perlen vor die Säue), but I understand it would be an odd fit

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:19 pm

I think it would be interesting with Streich, I just get the feeling he is more of a young player type coach. But yes, if he has the personality to handle the bayern primadonas-both on and off the pitch, he would be good. He strikes me as the type of guy who you would respect.

Just watched the end of the Sevilla v Barca game, now would Messi become a better player under Streich?

Fortuna v Nurnberg, could they have picked a worse game for the Saturday night special? I think the Scotties Tournament of hearts would be more interesting. Yes, we love women's curling on the Iceberg. We love all ice sports here, curling, ice hockey, ice fishing... thank goodness we now have legalized cannabis.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 pm

BVB: Bürki - Hakimi, Akanji, Zagadou, Diallo - Witsel, Weigl - Sancho, Götze, Guerreiro -Alcacer #BVBB04
Ersatzbank: Hitz - Delaney, Dahoud, Philipp, Wolf, Schmelzer, Bruun Larsen #BVBB04


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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 pm

1:0 BVB, Zagadou after a corner. Against the run of play, really

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:42 pm

1-1 great interplay between Havertz and Volland
2-1 Sancho with a beautiful volley goal, vs poor defending

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:30 pm

Have to say that all of the three black kids in BVBs defense, Zagadou, Diallo and Akanji, are absolutely amazing. Akanji especially impressive IMO

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:34 pm

Volland with the worst free kick I've ever seen

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:36 pm

TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh

3-2

Bruun Larsen n for Guerrerio

COME ON BAYER

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:41 pm

This in one entertaining game :bow:

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:01 pm

The Pretenders do it again, for most of the game they looked the better team, but somehow manage to lose as they always do. Good news is BVB won and Bayern are still 4 points behind.

Based on what I saw of the Liverpool v Manu game earlier, Bayern will advance in the UCL, which is good for Dortmund's chances to win the league.

Dont know if it is true, but the tv guy said Goetze had covered the most ground of all players in the game, at least until he came off late in the game. Which is good for Being Mario Goetze.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:29 pm

Lothar Matthäus is the best pundit in the world

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by iftikhar on Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:34 am

What do you have to say now @Hapless_Hans (Kovac Hater) Razz
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:51 pm

Championship Race over. Werder broke Dortmund in that greatest Pokal match of all time game back in February. I dont know who or what broke gladbach, but they were as easily beaten as the score suggests yesterday, even Thomas Muller was scoring on them!!!

I think Lawn Bowling Leipzig and The Pretenders may get into the UCL spaces now. Who knows, maybe even time for Werder to sneak in the top six or even top four?

Yes, Schalke lost some players, but not sure how that explains the drop to almost being relegated status. Still time for them to actually get relegated, a distinct possibility of that happening. Last season was maybe flattering to them, but they should not be losing 4-0 at home to Fortuna.

Bayern winning again sours everything this season.
I dunno, think I will support Union Berlin or St Pauli next season, their fans are cool and fun. Women's football seems more even and open, maybe I will get into that. Mens game is shit today, it is all WWE like BS, with a bunch of retard fans and pundits yapping about manager interviews all the time. The football itself is secondary, I blame computer games for that.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:11 pm

It would have been a nice gesture to give Bibi the referee job today, but I guess not.

Schalke will not be caught by Hannover or Nurnberg, but they could very well get the relegation play off spot. Kinda lucky to only be 3-1 behind at the moment.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:26 pm

HAAAAAARNIIIIIIIK

4-2 Werder with the last second

Bye bye Tedesco

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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by elfmeter on Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:31 pm

After the VAR week we had was expecting a Schalke pk when Burgstaller went down. But all good, the other Austrian striker scored for the good guys.
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Vlad the Impaler on Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:31 pm

Absolutely shocked to see Schalke suffering like this after 25 games. At this point, not sacking Tedesco would be the worst possible decision. Can't get worse than this if you change the coach, but it could get better.

What are the options for Schalke?
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Re: The Bundesliga Thread (18/19)

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:29 pm

@Vlad the Impaler wrote:Absolutely shocked to see Schalke suffering like this after 25 games. At this point, not sacking Tedesco would be the worst possible decision. Can't get worse than this if you change the coach, but it could get better.

What are the options for Schalke?


No idea who they could even hire..

there are no good coaches left in Germany

Mike Büskens?

It will be someone who failed before, probably many times.

Maybe David Wagner?

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