Nationalism in Europe [Controversial]

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Post by guest7 Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:53 am

I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up

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Post by Thimmy Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:27 pm

guest7 wrote:I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up


Glad you figured it out Smile
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:33 pm

Thimmy wrote:
guest7 wrote:I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called  Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up


Glad you figured it out Smile


sounds like an absolute disaster to me

but hey it's a free country

depending on just how strict they want those laws to be obviously
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Post by Thimmy Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:15 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
guest7 wrote:I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called  Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up


Glad you figured it out Smile


sounds like an absolute disaster to me

but hey it's a free country

depending on just how strict they want those laws to be obviously


Considering, it's Sweden, I'm guessing no substantial changes.
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Post by Blue Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:05 pm

I am guessing the immigration being discussed is mainly refugees, if not correct me.

For me it is simple many of these immigrants are escaping certain death that is why they are fleeing their country. I am not sure what kinda person i would be if i object them due to not learning the language or not integrating to the culture.

Do i like it when i see immigrants who live in the country who barely speaks the language? obviously not, but i remained myself to put myself in their place and what they went through and i become much more understanding and compassionate. Some are escaping from the horror of war, drug cartels, famine, or a chance to significantly improve their daily life.
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Post by Unique Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Blue wrote:I am guessing the immigration being discussed is mainly refugees, if not correct me.

For me it is simple many of these immigrants are escaping certain death that is why they are fleeing their country. I am not sure what kinda person i would be if i object them due to not learning the language or not integrating to the culture.

Do i like it when i see immigrants who live in the country who barely speaks the language? obviously not, but i remained myself to put myself in their place and what they went through and i become much more understanding and compassionate. Some are escaping from the horror of war, drug cartels, famine, or a chance to significantly improve their daily life.
if that were true they would stay in the first safe country they got to. Instead they were picking up the food and bottles of water and throwing it at the people that offered them a safe place and food and water because after the fighting age men ran away and left the women and children they wanted to go to Germany Sweden or Britain because that’s where you can piss on the country and it’s peopl and still get free housing free health care and free money.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:47 pm

guest7 wrote:I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up


It's populism in the disguise of nationalism.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:01 pm

There's this funny divide of most people being like "what's the worst that can happen if you vote nationalist, I'm gonna try" on the one side,
and on the other, there's Hans and me, being from a certain country, yelling "NOOOOOO!!!"...
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Post by Unique Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:25 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:There's this funny divide of most people being like "what's the worst that can happen if you vote nationalist, I'm gonna try" on the one side,
and on the other, there's Hans and me, being from a certain country, yelling "NOOOOOO!!!"...
I think a lot of Germans are scared of being called nazi racist after what went on in ww2 so they think they have to be over nice and not say anything.
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Post by Freeza Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:43 pm

Unique wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:There's this funny divide of most people being like "what's the worst that can happen if you vote nationalist, I'm gonna try" on the one side,
and on the other, there's Hans and me, being from a certain country, yelling "NOOOOOO!!!"...
I think a lot of Germans are scared of being called nazi racist after what went on in ww2 so they think they have to be over nice and not say anything.


Or they have actually learned from history aside from every other nation in Europe. There's moderate way to protect your country from different issues.

Far right is never the answer.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:49 pm

Freeza understands me way better than Unique ever will.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:53 pm

It's not a coincidence capitalist democracies drift toward fascism in times of econonomic hardship.

Both, i.e. economic hardship and the ensuing drift towards fascism, is inscribed into capitalism.

This is not my personal notion, this has been known by proper political theorists since forever.

I used to think this kind of textbook marxist historical analysis was too simplistic and broad brushed, but I guess it turns out it's really not.

There's parallels between the early 30s and today, it's not hard to spot them even if of course times have changed and thus history won't simply repeat itself.
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Post by Unique Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 pm

Freeza wrote:
Unique wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:There's this funny divide of most people being like "what's the worst that can happen if you vote nationalist, I'm gonna try" on the one side,
and on the other, there's Hans and me, being from a certain country, yelling "NOOOOOO!!!"...
I think a lot of Germans are scared of being called nazi racist after what went on in ww2 so they think they have to be over nice and not say anything.


Or they have actually learned from history aside from every other nation in Europe. There's moderate way to protect your country from different issues.

Far right is never the answer.
there is a missive middle ground between putting your foot down and trying to wipe out millions of people.
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Post by Freeza Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:13 pm

Unique wrote:
Freeza wrote:
Unique wrote: I think a lot of Germans are scared of being called nazi racist after what went on in ww2 so they think they have to be over nice and not say anything.


Or they have actually learned from history aside from every other nation in Europe. There's moderate way to protect your country from different issues.

Far right is never the answer.
there is a missive middle ground between putting your foot down and trying to wipe out millions of people.


Yeah that middle ground is not resisting when the far right parties seemed friendlier. Hitler didn't win an election on genocide. It was a gradual thing once people had been indoctrinated from when they were kids.

Hitler became a far right leader in 1921, and the final solution wasn't until 1941.

The thing is, how would a far right leader elected today look in 20 years?
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Post by Unique Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 pm

Freeza wrote:
Unique wrote:
Freeza wrote:

Or they have actually learned from history aside from every other nation in Europe. There's moderate way to protect your country from different issues.

Far right is never the answer.
there is a missive middle ground between putting your foot down and trying to wipe out millions of people.


Yeah that middle ground is not resisting when the far right parties seemed friendlier. Hitler didn't win an election on genocide. It was a gradual thing once people had been indoctrinated from when they were kids.

Hitler became a far right leader in 1921, and the final solution wasn't until 1941.

The thing is, how would a far right leader elected today look in 20 years?
lets be sensible here we all know that a 2nd coming of Hitler will never happen in Europe.
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Post by Freeza Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:34 pm

The "It couldn't possibly happen again" attitude is what made World War II happen.

I don't buy that for one second.

Hell, Trump was in office for a single year before he made concentration camps for Latinx people.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:32 pm

Unique wrote:lets be sensible here we all know that a 2nd coming of Hitler will never happen in Europe.


There's nothing sensible about that, many people thought the 1st coming wouldn't happen.
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Post by guest7 Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
guest7 wrote:I'm surprised how popular nationalism is here Shocked

FYI I'm not voting for the nationalist party this year. The other parties are waking up and realizing we need a more restrictive policy, without the strategic voting from nazis and racists. I'm voting for the right party, called  Nya Moderaterna (The New Moderators). They are changing the taxes to lower, making it so you have to learn the language to stay in the country, higher wages for the police, stricter laws etc.

Sounds good to me! Thumbs up


Glad you figured it out Smile


sounds like an absolute disaster to me

but hey it's a free country

depending on just how strict they want those laws to be obviously


Sweden has the least strict laws in Europe. You could get like 4 years for rape. It's a joke tbh and stricter laws has for a very long time been sought after!
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:54 pm

While I'm not against tougher sentences for many crimes, it's not like any statistic has ever proven that deterrence works, traditionally the countries with the softest punishments have had the least amount of crime.
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Post by Unique Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:09 pm

Freeza wrote:The "It couldn't possibly happen again" attitude is what made World War II happen.

I don't buy that for one second.

Hell, Trump was in office for a single year before he made concentration camps for Latinx people.
there is far more chance of seeing isis take a foot hold in europe than another nazi party.
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Post by Unique Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:30 pm

Freeza wrote:The "It couldn't possibly happen again" attitude is what made World War II happen.

I don't buy that for one second.

Hell, Trump was in office for a single year before he made concentration camps for Latinx people.
why did no one care about these camps when all the other presidents were in office. scratch its the same with the mexican wall trump talks about building. the wall has been there decades before trump even thought about being president. and people going ape shit about the wall between the usa and mexico and no body says shit about the wall between mexico and guatemala. scratch
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Post by Thimmy Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:26 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:While I'm not against tougher sentences for many crimes, it's not like any statistic has ever proven that deterrence works, traditionally the countries with the softest punishments have had the least amount of crime.


Sweden have the highest rape statistics per capita in Europe. Some of their politicians will have you believe that their numbers are inflated because the statistics allegedly count sexual harrasment as rape Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:35 pm

guest7 wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Thimmy wrote:


Glad you figured it out Smile


sounds like an absolute disaster to me

but hey it's a free country

depending on just how strict they want those laws to be obviously


Sweden has the least strict laws in Europe. You could get like 4 years for rape. It's a joke tbh and stricter laws has for a very long time been sought after!


Yeah but then not wanting to use a condom counts as rape in Sweden so I'd say 4 years jail is appropriate for that
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Post by Thimmy Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:40 pm

There was recently a music festival in Sweden that banned men, supposedly due to the high rape statistics at Swedish music festivals. I don't know what kind of signals that was supposed to send, but Swedish feminism never ceases to amaze me Laughing
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Post by Unique Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:45 pm

Thimmy wrote:There was recently a music festival in Sweden that banned men, supposedly due to the high rape statistics at Swedish music festivals. I don't know what kind of signals that was supposed to send, but Swedish feminism never ceases to amaze me Laughing
how much of this is down to swedish men.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:55 pm

Unique wrote:
Thimmy wrote:There was recently a music festival in Sweden that banned men, supposedly due to the high rape statistics at Swedish music festivals. I don't know what kind of signals that was supposed to send, but Swedish feminism never ceases to amaze me Laughing
how much of this is down to swedish men.


Even if I cared to find out, I'm sure accurate statistics for immigrant Swedes specifically, would be a lot harder to dig up due to how Swedish politics work.
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