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Which two teams will progress ?

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Post by Doc on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:33 pm

Because they played below their level and it was infuriating. I think it's justifiable to criticize them for that match. For their overall performance in this hard ass group, yeah, they did well. But that match was souring to say the least. Mind u, Liverpool could and should have battered them off the park too.

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Post by Helmer on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:41 pm

If I read Mole's post again, neither he or I said money is irrelevant in general. I think we both said that for yesterday's game or if you have to talk about why Napoli went out of the group, there were other issues. I think every knowledgeable football fan knows that there many examples where clubs have managed to win trophies even when financially weaker than other clubs.

If we see yesterday's back 5 of Liverpool, Liverpool decides not to spend too much money on Matip (signed for free), TAA (free - from academy), Robertson (signed for 8m from a relegation club) and then Liverpool spend all that money on Alisson and VanDjik. I think it is a very bold strategy which seems to be paying off.

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Post by BusterLfc on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm

@rincon wrote:It's hilarious for Liverpool fans to act like a poor team.
@Helmer wrote:Mentioning the money issue is so stupid and laughable. I dont know why people keep going back to it. It is not as if Liverpool are spending the unlimited oil money or money coming from a business running on Moon or Mars. All what matters is how you spend the money you earn (some famous investors have said this time and again). That is what makes us look ruícher than we are. It is just a well run sustainable business model. People dont get it.

What is this comment. It's easy to act like money doesn't matter when one is rich. This is how out of touch with reality the PL is. Napoli is at most top 4 in Serie A for wages. Budgets are drastically different between them and Liverpool. Easy to say money doesn't matter and then buy the most expensive GK and CB ever.

It's the same for us, we have bench players (cheaper than Liverpool's bench players of course) that would be around Napoli's all time record transfers. These things obviously matter. A well run rich club has all the advantages over a well run club with less resources. There is a point were returns diminish, Napoli are not at that point.

Yes, and liverpool never earned the money from selling.. In 2018 lfc earned almost 200m from transfers and 80m for reaching the CL final , so they should pocket that money + PL money and be happy with it? Ofcourse they're gonna splash it and improve the team
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Post by rincon on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:46 pm

You don't understand, obviously Liverpool should spend their money and do it as best as they can. It's not wrong to be a wealthy club, it's what all clubs try to be, it's just funny to ignore the role that this plays in building a team.

It's even so explicit in this case, Liverpool and Napoli needed a goalkeeper over the summer. Liverpool came to Serie A, out-priced everyone and took the most expensive one. This was the right move given that Liverpool could afford it, so why deny it?
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Post by BusterLfc on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:51 pm

@Helmer wrote:If I read Mole's post again, neither he or I said money is irrelevant in general. I think we both said that for yesterday's game or if you have to talk about why Napoli went out of the group, there were other issues. I think every knowledgeable football fan knows that there many examples where clubs have managed to win trophies even when financially weaker than other clubs.

If we see yesterday's back 5 of Liverpool, Liverpool decides not to spend too much money on Matip (signed for free), TAA (free - from academy), Robertson (signed for 8m from a relegation club) and then Liverpool spend all that money on Alisson and VanDjik. I think it is a very bold strategy which seems to be paying off.

I agree, no one thinks Liverpool is poor or anything, just that the club uses the money wisely. Only spend big money for proven players and a lot of time they find bargains like Gomez for peanuts, Robertson for 8m, Salah for 40m,Mane for 40m,etc

And not only that, but they are smart in offloading players for decent money, like Ings for 25m, Ward for 15m, Benteke 30m, Sakho 30m, etc
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Post by BusterLfc on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:56 pm

@rincon wrote:You don't understand, obviously Liverpool should spend their money and do it as best as they can. It's not wrong to be a wealthy club, it's what all clubs try to be, it's just funny to ignore the role that this plays in building a team.

It's even so explicit in this case, Liverpool and Napoli needed a goalkeeper over the summer. Liverpool came to Serie A, out-priced everyone and took the most expensive one. This was the right move given that Liverpool could afford it, so why deny it?

I'm not denying it, I'm glad the club uses the money wisely
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Post by rincon on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:58 pm

Didn't mean you, was for Helmer.
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Post by Helmer on Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:01 pm

Nowhere I denied it Laughing I just said it is all about balancing books/numbers of the club and make it work in the long term.

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Post by Helmer on Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:11 pm

@BusterLfc wrote:
@Helmer wrote:If I read Mole's post again, neither he or I said money is irrelevant in general. I think we both said that for yesterday's game or if you have to talk about why Napoli went out of the group, there were other issues. I think every knowledgeable football fan knows that there many examples where clubs have managed to win trophies even when financially weaker than other clubs.

If we see yesterday's back 5 of Liverpool, Liverpool decides not to spend too much money on Matip (signed for free), TAA (free - from academy), Robertson (signed for 8m from a relegation club) and then Liverpool spend all that money on Alisson and VanDjik. I think it is a very bold strategy which seems to be paying off.

I agree, no one thinks Liverpool is poor or anything, just that the club uses the money wisely. Only spend big money for proven players and a lot of time they find bargains like Gomez for peanuts, Robertson for 8m, Salah for 40m,Mane for 40m,etc

And not only that, but they are smart in offloading players for decent money, like Ings for 25m, Ward for 15m, Benteke 30m, Sakho 30m, etc

But I do think it is not always going to go right. We will have one or two bad risk buys sooner or later. The business we did on Coutinho or Suarez will be like once in a decade kind of a deal. Even VanDjik was a risky deal imo, a player with no experience at a top level.

In fact, if you dig out posts from me from last 2 years, you will see me literally begging that it was the time to take advantage of the league situation and invest heavily but we did not do it Laughing I think we are doing things a bit late. I think we are a bit reactive.

we tried to take risk with Karius as an example and it did not pay off in terms of a trophy. We can debate what were the reasons we lost the final to Madrid but it could have been different had Alisson been there in goal instead of him. It is completely possible we would have still lost but the game would have been different than 3-1. So I am not sure it will be so easy to win a trophy this season that Liverpool's so called richness will play a role.

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Post by Unique on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:01 pm

People acting like Liverpool have not had to sell to buy for the last 15 years. 50 mil Torres. 30 mil alonso 30 mil masharano 50 mil sterling 65 mil Suarez 150 mil coutinho. That’s where the money come from. The owners we have now have spent fuck all of there own money.

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Post by CBarca on Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Eh?

I just looked through a couple of net spend articles that spanned 5 years (2012-2017), 5 years again (2013-2018) and 3 years (2015-2018) and all had Liverpool at about 150-160m pounds give or take 10m pounds

Which was typically good for fourth or fifth behind City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea

What you've done the past 15 years is irrelevant. In the past five years, Pool are a big spending club. Nothing wrong with that necessarily since they're going about it the right way

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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:49 am

@CBarca wrote:Eh?

I just looked through a couple of net spend articles that spanned 5 years (2012-2017), 5 years again (2013-2018) and 3 years (2015-2018) and all had Liverpool at about 150-160m pounds give or take 10m pounds

Which was typically good for fourth or fifth behind City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea

What you've done the past 15 years is irrelevant. In the past five years, Pool are a big spending club. Nothing wrong with that necessarily since they're going about it the right way
if we still had sterling Suarez and coutinho with the team we have now we would win the champions league and the premier league. People talk like we just add players without having to sell our best players.

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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:08 am

Its kinda funny though talking about our pulling power but Allison is getting paid 120k whereas while Chicha at West Ham earns 140k. Just saying, any club would put Allison as their top earner.

Also plz deduct Coutinho money from discussions
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Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 pm

@Unique wrote:People acting like Liverpool have not had to sell to buy for the last 15 years. 50 mil Torres. 30 mil alonso 30 mil masharano 50 mil sterling 65 mil Suarez 150 mil coutinho. That’s where the money come from. The owners we have now have spent fuck all of there own money.


The thing is those players wanted to LEAVE YOU.

You didn't need to sell them, as you could've kept and build from that, but your club lacked identity and ambition, so whenever you got a WC player or a young player who went on to become WC under you they left somewhere so they can win something.

What your talking about is what every club has to go to replace an important players it's not just Liverpool.

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Post by Helmer on Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:56 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Unique wrote:People acting like Liverpool have not had to sell to buy for the last 15 years. 50 mil Torres. 30 mil alonso 30 mil masharano 50 mil sterling 65 mil Suarez 150 mil coutinho. That’s where the money come from. The owners we have now have spent fuck all of there own money.


The thing is those players wanted to LEAVE YOU.

You didn't need to sell them, as you could've kept and build from that, but your club lacked identity and ambition, so whenever you got a WC player or a young player who went on to become WC under you they left somewhere so they can win something.

What your talking about is what every club has to go to replace an important players it's not just Liverpool.

exactly like every summer Barcelona keep replacing Messi with a new Messi !

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Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:21 pm

@Helmer wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Unique wrote:People acting like Liverpool have not had to sell to buy for the last 15 years. 50 mil Torres. 30 mil alonso 30 mil masharano 50 mil sterling 65 mil Suarez 150 mil coutinho. That’s where the money come from. The owners we have now have spent fuck all of there own money.


The thing is those players wanted to LEAVE YOU.

You didn't need to sell them, as you could've kept and build from that, but your club lacked identity and ambition, so whenever you got a WC player or a young player who went on to become WC under you they left somewhere so they can win something.

What your talking about is what every club has to go to replace an important players it's not just Liverpool.

exactly like every summer Barcelona keep replacing Messi with a new Messi !

Have we replace Xavi or Inesita yet? Have we replaced Alves? No. Has Juve replaced Buffon? No. Real Madrid replaced Ronaldo? No. Have United replaced Scholes or Giggs? No.

We manage to keep those players because we also were winning and competing at a high level, you guys haven't and that's my point. If you were winning league after league or CL titles, trebles etc, you wouldn't be losing all those players, but guess what you haven't won a league in 20+ years. Hence why you have to replace players every year or two.

The way you Pool fans are talking is like if tomorrow you needed to buy a striker, you'd have to call Salah in a room and tell him how you need to sell him for 150-200m to bring in a striker Laughing

When that's not the case if you want a 100m striker, Liverpool will bring in a 100m striker.

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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:34 pm

We just played Origi m8, and he won a game for us. You sure?
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Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:36 pm

@Nishankly wrote:We just played Origi m8, and he won a game for us. You sure?


Sure of what?

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Post by Helmer on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:37 pm

ok, I was just messing around.

I agree with most of the things you have said but it is still painful to keep selling players year after year. This mini success in this season won't blind me from the fact that our rebuilding seems to be going from many years now. We have still done incredibly well in terms of shaping the squad. And I have high hopes in next 2-3 years for this club.

But on the other side, I can guarantee you that we will not spend 100m on a striker in nearby future Laughing

And here comes Nish !

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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:40 pm

It took Klopp 3 years to figure we needed a DM. Well he figured in the first week but unlike y'all where you need to win to stay relevant we coach our players and loyalty matters. We do spend sure, but look at those guys, 80m for a guy from Southampton, 50 from Leipzig and still after spending that much it takes Klopp 6 months to start them continuously. So please, I wish I my team is able to buy Coutinho's and Suarez's week in week out just because we get our ass kicked in one derby.
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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:44 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:We just played Origi m8, and he won a game for us. You sure?


Sure of what?


If we want to spend 100m on a striker unlike Barca, we will spend atleast 3 first team players to get that.
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Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:45 pm

@Helmer wrote:ok, I was just messing around.

I agree with most of the things you have said but it is still painful to keep selling players year after year. This mini success in this season won't blind me from the fact that our rebuilding seems to be going from many years now. We have still done incredibly well in terms of shaping the squad. And I have high hopes in next 2-3 years for this club.

But on the other side, I can guarantee you that we will not spend 100m on a striker in nearby future Laughing

And here comes Nish !

And I understand that, but that's my point, now you guys feel competitive and have signed some good players, if you can win the league or go till the final day, make another deep run in the CL, win a cup or something you'll keep on to your players, while bring in more WC players.

@Nishankly wrote:It took Klopp 3 years to figure we needed a DM. Well he figured in the first week but unlike y'all where you need to win to stay relevant we coach our players and loyalty matters. We do spend sure, but look at those guys, 80m for a guy from Southampton, 50 from Leipzig and still after spending that much it takes Klopp 6 months to start them continuously. So please, I wish I my team is able to buy Coutinho's and Suarez's week in week out  just because we get our ass kicked in one derby.


That's more on Klopp rather then your inability to spend. I remember him saying they wouldn't have bought a GK if Allison wasn't on the market, so you would've been stuck with Karius, surely he could get the scout to scout more, as I'm sure there are many GK who are better out there.

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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:46 pm

Then its the fact the best team we could find was Monaco to spend our money on while other teams are lifting players from Bayern. So again yes we spend but its not like we are at the top of everything like you and your brothers where we get what we want just by showing interest so please don't put there and talk.
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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:49 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Helmer wrote:ok, I was just messing around.

I agree with most of the things you have said but it is still painful to keep selling players year after year. This mini success in this season won't blind me from the fact that our rebuilding seems to be going from many years now. We have still done incredibly well in terms of shaping the squad. And I have high hopes in next 2-3 years for this club.

But on the other side, I can guarantee you that we will not spend 100m on a striker in nearby future Laughing

And here comes Nish !

And I understand that, but that's my point, now you guys feel competitive and have signed some good players, if you can win the league or go till the final day, make another deep run in the CL, win a cup or something you'll keep on to your players, while bring in more WC players.

@Nishankly wrote:It took Klopp 3 years to figure we needed a DM. Well he figured in the first week but unlike y'all where you need to win to stay relevant we coach our players and loyalty matters. We do spend sure, but look at those guys, 80m for a guy from Southampton, 50 from Leipzig and still after spending that much it takes Klopp 6 months to start them continuously. So please, I wish I my team is able to buy Coutinho's and Suarez's week in week out  just because we get our ass kicked in one derby.


That's more on Klopp rather then your inability to spend. I remember him saying they wouldn't have bought a GK if Allison wasn't on the market, so you would've been stuck with Karius, surely he could get the scout to scout more, as I'm sure there are many GK who are better out there.


Again you can blame Klopp, but remember its the first time in 3 years that we've been comfortably above a netspend that's close to 0. We don't throw money just because we are desperate to compete because we are unlike you. So put us down a notch.
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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:50 pm

Also I'll just ignore that you said there are better keepers on the market than Allison while we sit 1st in the PL with the least goals conceded.
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Post by Winter is Coming on Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:51 pm

@Nishankly wrote:Then its the fact the best team we could find was Monaco to spend our money on while other teams are lifting players from Bayern. So again yes we spend but its not like we are at the top of everything like you and your brothers where we get what we want just by showing interest so please don't put there and talk.


And the day your club decided to show more ambition and actually win titles, is the day you'll sign Coutinho's and Suarez's more regularly by just showing interest.

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