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Post by Freeza on Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:56 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I miss Callejon... he's wrecking Liverpool.


Thought I was the only one on here who rated him. Everyone else seemed to think he was a headless chicken when he played for RM.

inb4 he's improved tenfold since


He is what everyone somehow has been convinced Vazquez is.

Callejon is much better, faster and has technique.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:33 pm

I rated Callejon as a great sub player, he wanted first team football though hence the move. Vazquez is fine sitting on the bench. Different situation.

As for midfield situation, I think Modric WILL leave next summer. With Modric exiting we can offer Kovacic that starting position (provided he continues to perform for Chelsea), we will have Ceballos to cover both CM positions, as well as AM if needed.

Then for that CDM role that Casemiro plays, given Llorente hasn't progressed at all, we really need to bring someone in- if possible in the winter transfer window.

Ndombele is a good shout, I think he should be at the top of the shortlist along with Ruben Neves, Thiago Maia, Diawara, Ndidi, is Weigl still relevant?, Bentancur, Kessie etc. all the young defensive CM's. In all fairness we really should have gone for Rodri- I don't understand why that deal wasn't attempted. He was a damn steal, and now we are stuck with hair-boy Llorente.
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Post by titosantill on Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:29 am

there are two prime moments to promote youngsters.
nos 1. when you have a dominant side, and by dominant i mean especially in league play, where you're bagging 3 points constantly and topping the table, week in week out. that way they are learning from established players with a winning culture and the pressure heaped on them when points are dropped isn't as high. you can grow a lot of talented players that way

nos 2. when almost the reverse is the case and you're just losing and tanking the season. a sort of baptism by fire situation. here the hope is that they can learn from the painful experience and grow from it. in this respect you might be able to develop 1 or 2 gems, 3 if lucky. not every youngster has the mentality to accompany such experience. and for a club like madrid, the following year most are discarded

we may be at the nos 2 stage , but i don't think our situation is that dire as the season is still early, but for those who want to see a team of castilla products, this is the season. we won't (and we shouldn't )sign in january, so we'll need as much "help" from castilla as games begin to pile up. it is what it is.
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Post by sportsczy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:57 pm

I'd sign Zlatan honestly.

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Post by Doc on Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:55 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I'd sign Zlatan honestly.

He'll be our immediate starting forward

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Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:13 pm

I think it would take more than Ibra if I am honest. Just think how Benzema continues to play, without a whiff of signing a replacement, despite under performing.

I think it goes one of 3 ways. 1) We sign someone of the Kane/ Mbappe/ Dybala quality and Benz leaves or plays as back-up, 2) we sign a younger/more unknown quality striker for a reasonable amount who slowly phases Benz out through force of will, or 3) Benz is here until he retires.
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Post by sportsczy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:49 pm

why do we never go after Zlatan? He went to PSG then Man U then LA Galaxy... and we've stuck with Benzema that whole time. I mean ffs.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:10 pm

Make no mistake, there were many available options for Florentino aside from Ibra to go after. For instance, Icardi who, though not an all-rounder, still MILES better than Benzema. The reason he didn't is because none of them were marketable enough to pay back their salaries and transfer fee through shirt sales and sponsorship deals.

If you really think about it, he has only offered Galactico money for players who were a marketing goldmine. That is why he's still drooling at the thought of signing Neymar and is still reluctant to spend big for a CF.

He'll continue to buy nobodies until a new shiny toy appears on the scene. In the meantime, enjoy the slow, excruciating, soul-crushing death that comes with watching Benzema play week in, week out.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:42 pm

i am all for not spending 100 mil on middle of the road options like Icardi. I like him, i would have welcomed his signing, but ultimately i think we made the right choice.

spend 100 mil on a sure thing super elite player, icardi isnt that.

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:17 am

Ibra is free ffs.  that's my point.

And the 100 mil for a great CF days are over. Now they cost between 150-200.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:36 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:i am all for not spending 100 mil on middle of the road options like Icardi. I like him, i would have welcomed his signing, but ultimately i think we made the right choice.

spend 100 mil on a sure thing super elite player, icardi isnt that.


I've had mixed opinions on what little I've seen from Icardi in the past. I think he's a proficient goalscorer, but his overall play has looked inconsistent a lot of the time when I've happened to watch Inter play. I only have access to La Liga and Serie A matches this season, so I've been able to watch some of their games, and he's looking absolutely clinical right now. Finishing-wise, he's exactly what we're missing. I'm not so sure he'd deliver in other areas, though.

He seems to have a very good football understanding in the final third of the pitch. I rate him very highly, in that respect. He's a 9 who can can hold up the ball very well, but he seems like more of a fox in the box than a player who's exceptionally proficient at helping build up attacks á la prime Benzema. From what I can tell, his greatest quality is his ability to shoot accurately, and without hesitation. That may seem like a fairly basic skill, but the time it takes for him to shoot as soon as he receives the ball, is C. Ronaldo- like in efficiency. Considering the current market prices, and him being 25, I daresay 100m seems like a relatively fair price for him. He doesn't strike me as a type of player that necessarily fits into Lopetegui's style of football, though.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:05 pm

Good point, Thimmy. Also, our main objective should be to always improve. If your target is an improvement to the one you already have, then you shouldn't really hesitate to sign them.

You can't really be picky when you have quite possibly one of the worst CFs of all the elite clubs in the top 5 leagues. There needs to be a sense of urgency because sticking to Benzema is suicidal and shows a clear lack of ambition and willingness to stay at the highest level.

Icardi is not prime R9, but he's MILES better than Benzema. That alone should be a good-enough reason to go all-out for him. If you refuse to accept the fact that the market will never go down and that you need to spend big to land WC talent, you'll continue to buy a bunch of nobodies and pretty soon you'll end up with a mediocre team and a back-breaking trophy drought.

That attack should've been dismantled in the summer. To expect some of them to magically start delivering gold after many years of suckage is not only naive but also an insult to the human intelligence.

The board has made countless grave mistakes recently and, as fans, there's no shame in admitting that. We've witnessed our legendary team get dismantled brick by brick and our depth weakened beyond recognition. The damage is so great that only a radical change to this current shitty, crappy, unambitious, fruitless transfer policy can fix,and if they think they can shut us up by wrapping up the Bernabeu in tinfoil, they've got another thing coming.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:31 pm

Maybe that tinfoil could be put to better use by wrapping up Benzema in it, so as to keep his Leather and Plastic Sensitivity at bay.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:06 pm

I know it may sound counter intuitive but we have become very careful in how we sign players, so paying 100 mil for any player really takes something special. I mean United spent 80 mil on Lukaku, but when you watch him play, if you were a United fan, would you feel like he is the type of player that can lead you to a CL title? i think this is the type of standard by which we would have judged signing Icardi.

In his skillset, does he have enough to respond to most type of tactics, schemes, opposing defense, etc...? to be a long term sure thing option at n9 for us? i have doubts about that. The logic shouldnt be to just sign someone better than benzema.

We may very well go back to someone like Icardi next summer, but i certainly dont rate him as high as Thimmy

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:40 pm

First of all, you really need to make your peace with the fact that the market is inflated and will probably never go down. If your strategy is to wait until it gets back to normal, you might want to get some canned tuna because your wait may outlast the death of the sun.

Second, not only is Icardi superior to Lukaku (which renders your analogy invalid), but his price tag is relatively cheap in today's market where goalkeepers and defenders are going for 80m.

Third, you seem to be questioning his abilities to adapt to different tactics, yet it didn't bother you in the slightest that the CF we already have can't do jack shit, pardon my french. For someone who has one of the worst CFs playing today out of any elite club from the top five leagues in Europe, you surely seem quite picky.

The most sensible thing for us to do right now is to ask ourselves this: can we afford to wait until we find someone you like? Can we stick to Benzema until the next R9 is born? The answer looks pretty simple to me: No.

Benzema has plummeted to an unacceptable level and we simply can't afford to wait anymore. He must be replaced. In fact, he should've already been replaced last summer with Ronaldo's departure.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:03 pm

Well, it's not me dictating the transfer policy of madrid, i merely try to make sense of it.

There is no clear evidence that Icardi is a better striker than Lukaku, and i would be curious to read the football analysis regarding why, in your opinion, Icardi is superior. I like to look at performances, in CL, vs big teams, with NT top competition, and skills with the eye test obviously. If anything, we have not seen Icardi exposed at all to the biggest stage. Lukaku? yes, and despite his flaws, he is doing well, whether in England or with Belgium, he has been very successful.

you would have to quote me, but i am not a supporter of Benzema in any way shape or form, nor did i make an argument that we should continue with him. My argument is that we should careful weight the market to make the right signing one time, because that's likely the player we will base our tactics on, and rely on for the next 5-6 years.

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm

Have you watched Lukaku lately? Carvajal's touch looks like Messi's in comparison.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:38 pm

I have, he has a poor first touch, which is part of his weaknesses. But he also has qualities.

I am no Lukaku fan, but i respect how good and how successful he has been, that's it. But i am also clear that i would not want him for our team.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:03 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I know it may sound counter intuitive but we have become very careful in how we sign players, so paying 100 mil for any player really takes something special. I mean United spent 80 mil on Lukaku, but when you watch him play, if you were a United fan, would you feel like he is the type of player that can lead you to a CL title? i think this is the type of standard by which we would have judged signing Icardi.

In his skillset, does he have enough to respond to most type of tactics, schemes, opposing defense, etc...? to be a long term sure thing option at n9 for us? i have doubts about that. The logic shouldnt be to just sign someone better than benzema.

We may very well go back to someone like Icardi next summer, but i certainly dont rate him as high as Thimmy


I don't think we, realistically, have any available alternatives that would likely live up to those standards - and certainly no one that I would describe as super elite, who's not nearing their expiration date at this point in time. I'm not saying I endorse the purchase of Icardi with full confidence, or that he would definitely be the right person to help lead us to success over the next few seasons. He would be a gamble, like all of our other, available options would be.

Considering his age, price and skill set, I'd argue he's one of our better options. That's likely why we've been linked to him in the past. I'm thoroughly impressed by his confidence, ruthlessness and efficiency in front of goal. C. Ronaldo left behind him a substantial void for players with that kind of determination. I think Mariano possess it to some degree, but he seems to be significantly less talented and tactically intelligent compared to Icardi. Moreso than a lack of talent or tactical adaptability, I think Icardi's history of disciplinary issues would potentially be the biggest concern with him. And that's a very relevant issue, that may have influenced RM's decision not to go after him.

You're right in being sceptical about whether or not he would deliver on the biggest occasions, since those occasions have been few and far between at Inter. He's been the top goalscorer in Serie A twice already, at the age of 25, and I recall him being mentioned as the most efficient striker in Europe a few years back. Regardless of how highly or lowly you rate him, there's no doubt that he possesses talent, and how much he has improved over the duration of his career at Inter is a good indication that he still has his prime ahead of him. He's definitely not the worst gamble we could make, and that's the only point I'm making. Needless to say, if PSG came knocking and didn't demand the GDP of a country for Mbappe and Neymar, then we wouldn't have to take any risks in this super inflated transfer market.

I would gladly welcome Zlatan, as well. I certainly don't think he would live up to your standard of tactical flexibility, and I would reserve my expectations towards him performing up to par in the Champions League, but he's an established profile that would highly likely be an asset to the team in the short term. His transfer fee wouldn't be an issue, either.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 pm

we do not sign 37 years old divas like Zlatan, i dont even know why his name is being discussed. Not to mention that he is represented by Raiola; Ronaldo coming back to madrid in december is way more likely.

Regarding Icardi, I think ultimately, if we did not go for him it's because there exists enough doubt about him that made the 100 mil purchase too risky. But i am also sure that we are actively scouting many strikers in europe right now, and i would be surprised if that doesn't include him. He is in CL, he will have some high profile games this season, and maybe he will make a bigger case of himself as one of the very top CF in Europe.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:49 pm

I'm not the one who brought him up, and I think it's extremely unlikely that we'll ever be associated with him, but his contract only lasts until next year. He's already been linked with a return to AC Milan. He's never been a pace dependent player, and he's still performing at an unreasonably high level for his age. If he wants to come, and we can get him at a reasonable price, I really don't see why not. That's of course, if he's even being considered, which I doubt. Zlatan's talent is unquestionable, and getting him for cheap would not weaken us in any way.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:38 pm

Re Icardi Nick...if he proves himself in CL this year, the price goes from 100 to 150 fyi and other suitors too (Man U likely). 100 mil doesn't buy you a young WC CF in today's market.

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Post by Thimmy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:25 pm

I'm watching the Inter vs SPAL game right now, and again, Icardi's being absolutely ruthless in front of goal. Inter have created a lot of chances, but it's only when the ball falls to his feet, that it ends up in the back of the net. It may not be the greatest of opponents, but again, he's showing great football intelligence and clinicality to make the difference for his side, even when he's feeding on scraps like this.



I'll definitely be following him and Inter this season, as long as their matches don't clash with ours. Even if he's nowhere near the top of our transfer list, I really hope we can acquire someone with a similar skillset if Benzema goes the other way.

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Post by Doc on Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:19 am

I've been sold on Icardi since early last season. He is definitely the forward we really need, well, needed. Doubtful Inter would sell him and he probably is quite comfortable in Milan (the city) and at the club itself.

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