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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:55 pm

Not even 4 out of 5 CL or anything like that... name one elite team (Bayern, City, PSG, Juve, Barca, etc.) that has taken the path that we have in recent memory regardless of results.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:58 pm

and what path is that? when you define this i will give you examples, it's pretty easy
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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:00 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I agree that having an elite striker would make everything easier, of course. But who? this has been the question all along, in this market with players costing upwards of 100 mil a piece, you want to make the right signing. And from what we see on the market, there is no clear choice

We passed on Mbappe, Suarez, Lewandowski, Hazard, Icardi, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Aguero, Griezmann, etc. in the past 2 years either due to pricetag or lack of appetite. Some, I agree with like Auba and Sanchez. But making one signing, regardless or price and risk, was absolutely necessary.

We could afford to blow 200 mil on Lewa this summer or 250 on Hazard. 180 for Mbappe was on the table. Aguero was available last summer too. Icardi had a 100 mil release clause. etc.

We're wasting an opportunity here imo. Other than striker, we have a GREAT team.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:07 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:and what path is that? when you define this i will give you examples, it's pretty easy

Of spending little and gambling on youth exclusively.

To remind you, here's been our spend the past 3 years during the summer transfer windows:
-  2018 - Spend of £132 mil (Vinicius for £41 mil and Courtois for £32 mil
-  2017 - Spend of £54 mil (Theo Henandez as the high for £22 mil)
-  2016 - Spend of £27 mil (only Morata)

The only team that I can think of that spends like this is Bayern... and that's because Bundi teams are used to being raped by them so they just bend over.  Also, they have great scouting, which we don't (at all).  

I can't think of anyone else.  Even Juve and Atleti are outspending us ffs.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:11 pm

We passed on those players for valid reasons, some of which there is no evidence we were interested in. It's not enough to say that we "passed" on players, you have to explain why.

we could not afford to blow 200 mil on a striker for 2-3 seasons, this is not true. and this would have been ridiculous by the way.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:14 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:and what path is that? when you define this i will give you examples, it's pretty easy

Of spending little and gambling on youth exclusively.

To remind you, here's been our spend the past 3 years during the summer transfer windows:
-  2018 - Spend of £132 mil (Vinicius for £41 mil and Courtois for £32 mil
-  2017 - Spend of £54 mil (Theo Henandez as the high for £22 mil)
-  2016 - Spend of £27 mil (only Morata)

The only team that I can think of that spends like this is Bayern... and that's because Bundi teams are used to being raped by them so they just bend over.  Also, they have great scouting, which we don't (at all).  

I can't think of anyone else.  Even Juve and Atleti are outspending us ffs.
this is all hindsight.

when Morata came back form Juve, he was a highly thought youngster, he just did not make it. Same when we signed Thoe, player with pedigree.

Your post fails to highly the past that we have a made squad with world class players everywhere who have won it all, and a line up of young talents ready to be given a chance. Again, if this is your definition of path, there is virtually no team that we are comparable to us

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:26 pm

No way dude.  Theo wasn't highly rated...  he had talent but literally no senior game time.  He just had a reasonable release clause and we were in our "vinicius" transfer mode.  Big gamble that one.

And I have no problem taking chances like that.  BUT, not as the primary, only and prize pieces of your window.

Morata was signed back because we had a cheap buyback.  If he cost 100 mil, no way we would have splashed it.

What I am highlighting is that the squad was made from 2014 and before.  In the past 4 years, we've literally done nothing while the team has aged and we literally are now faced with a very abrupt transition as a result. Unless many of the kids turn into top players, we are stuck with no depth and very few replacements.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:48 pm

i'm not going to argue if theo was rated because he clearly was, and he had a very successful year at Alaves.

When you build a squad, you want it to reach the level of our team. when you have world class players in their primes, you dont really think of replacing them.

Again you are wrong in saying we did nothing.

GK: we have tried repeatedly to sign De gea, then Kepa, and we finally got Courtois.

Fullback: behind Carvajal and marcelo, we have tried to sign Danilo, then Theo, and now Odriozola. In between that, Achraf had a shot, Reguilon is getting one now as well.

CB: our starters have been well established with Ramos Varane for a while. behind them, Nacho has grown a lot, and when pepe left, we signed Vallejo.

DM: Casemiro is 26 and we brought llorente as back up. Not to mention Kovacic was around.

CM: behind Kroos and Modric, we had Kovacic until recently. He is on loan, still under contract, now we have Ceballos who is looking great. Isco has been around as well.

forwards: we had BBC, and around them, Isco, Asensio, James was around, Vasquez, Morata, etc...

What you said is not true. we have always tried to surround our senior players with youngsters. and it has been hit and miss because those youngsters were not getting enough play time to show their worth, like Kovacic who requested a transfer. The main team hasn't really changed because the XI was in their prime, and there was no reason to change.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:20 pm

In everything you said:

-  Defense - Carvajal, who is injury prone like Bale, was backed up by Danilo (who sucked) and Odriozola this season.  Nacho was our only viable defensive backup last season.... at all the positions...  once Pepe left 2 seasons ago.

-  Midfield - Kovacic was our only viable backup for.. well forever.  We signed a bunch of nobody kids and Kova to back up 3 positions.  If you mention Illaramendi, i'll never speak with you again.  Ceballos seems to be coming good; but with Kova gone, we're still using 4 CMs to handle 3 CM regular spots with Casemiro being injury prone and inconsistent while Modric is getting old.

-  AMs - A position we don't use.  Yet we've had Isco, James and now Asensio (who i'm questioning is a AM or really what he is).  We've looked to play them all out of position since we don't play a AM and, so far, it's mostly failed.  And Tito is right... we may want to stop playing 3 midfielders since we don't have enough CMs.

-  Forwards - Morata, Vasquez, James, Isco and Asensio were backing up BBC.  Morata and James left 2 years ago.  Ronaldo this year.  We've only added Mariano.  BBC are either gone or in the twilight zone.

Goalkeeping is about the only position we're really covered for.  Even then... Casilla was a disaster last year when Navas was out for a good many months.  But it's goalkeeping.  This is the one position where depth is difficult to manage... yet we decided to get depth here.

Point is, the only viable bench players we have are Nacho, GK, Odriozola, one of Isco/Asensio, Ceballos and maybe Mariano.  In the meantime, we have all 4 defenders that are injury/suspension prone, 2 CMs that are also injury prone with one getting old AND 2 strikers who either always get injured or plain suck.  

How is this proper planning?  There's literally no competition at all anywhere other than at one wing spot, RB and GK.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:10 pm

That's the challenge of having a squad with world class players in their prime, who do you sign to back them up?

You either sign veteran players, journeymen, or young players with potential hoping to grow further. we chose the latter option.

Every signing we have made was in respect to the starters we had. the cycle of our starters is coming to an end, and in almost all areas we have players or talents in line to up over.

i dont see 4 defenders who are injury prone or suspension prone, he only one is Vallejo. we dont have CMs that are injury prone, and the only striker who is injury prone is Bale.

The squad planning has been done well for the most part.

GK: Courtois done

Fullback: Odriozola done. Reguilon on the left is an experiment, hopefully Theo gets better, and worse case scenario we can sign someone.

CB: Nacho, Varane & Ramos is a great 3 man unit. Vallejo is still an experiment, and if it comes down to it, we will sign.

DM: Casemiro is 26, all he needs is a back up. Llorente hopefully will get more time this year. Valverde is around too.

CM/AM: Ceballos is here. Kroos is just 28, Isco is 26. Kovacic is on loan and we did not sell for a reason.

FWs: i think our starters are really Isco, Bale and Benzema. Behind them, Asensio, Vasquez, and Mariano + Vinicius.

There are areas where we could have done better, but overall the planning is good and we have young players a bit everywhere that we want to give a chance to. This is proper planning. Spending 200 millions on Lewandowski as you suggested is not proper planning.

There are areas where sometimes we dont have to create competition like in midfield with Kroos, modric and Casemiro, that is fine.






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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:12 pm

They usually are as quiet as a dormant black hole, but every now and then they release a missile that makes the whole Madrid board tremble.

Totally agree with everything that has been said with Marca's article

My favorite bits:
Real Madrid continue to live in a fantasy world of chasing Neymar's signature and trying to redevelop the Estadio Santiago Bernabeu whilst their team grew weaker.
He [Florentino] ... rather sat back and relied on the most optimistic of predictions, for example Bale staying injury free and Karim Benzema making up the goal-scoring shortfall left by Ronaldo's departure.
He also subscribed to the belief that Sergio Ramos and Raphael Varane don't need to be rested and that age will not come to impact Luka Modric and Toni Kroos.
The solution is located somewhat nearby with Real Madrid's basketball team being the prime example for many in sport.

They are possibly once again the best team in Europe for the 2018 season, despite losing the best player on the continent in Luka Doncic to the NBA.

This is called having a solid structure which follows a pre-determined plan to the letter and then executing that plan to perfection.

Also, basketball decisions are made by those who know basketball.

In this stormy start to the season, don't blame Lopetegui, look higher up.

They are criticizing the lack of depth, the very questionable and flawed transfer policy, and the fact that Madrid has been losing a strong bench player every season without replacing them.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:16 pm

Also, I agree with sports' criticism.

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Post by Doc on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:32 pm

Out of all those teams, PSG's model isn't something I would want Madrid to follow or replicate so not sure why Sports put them there. Not that I disagree with everything else he wrote (as he made some salient points) it, just, PSG's model is really not sustainable in the long term as it solely depends on Qatar's involvement.

Also, Theo was highly rated at the time. Atleti didn't get upset for nothing, they had high hopes for him. How things turned out for him is something not many people foresaw but here we are. Anyway, my only beef and has been my only beef is not replacing either Morata and now Ronaldo properly. That we did an awful job on.

The rest of the signings, well, made sense. Theo made sense, so did Ceballos and Vinicius. Odriozola made a lot of sense (and it's paying dividends because Dani is back to his best). Kova as well. The CB position is a bit tricky as Ramos and Varane are the main ones and the former has a huge influence at the club so you wouldn't sign another starter CB to upset either, don't mind Vallejo is kinda of a waste.

Marca is living in the world where they think Madrid can buy anyone, to which, they can't. Which CB can Madrid really take that won't:
A) upset either Varane or Ramos
B) don't mind being a 3rd/4th choice
& C) could readily replace both when they need rest or injured?!
Good to great LBs are a premium, you don't just find one of those and they are usually with a club that'll do everything to price you out (hence why Theo is such a disappointment).

Like I mentioned earlier, to me, only the forwards is where Madrid really messed up. They (while understandable they didn't) should have paid Mbappe the fee his team wanted. They should have taken the gamble on supposed "limited" strikers out there instead of hoping for some Golden player to just pop out from nowhere. Everything else made some semblance of sense.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:36 pm

I don't even want WC players (other than at CF; you *bleep* need scorers)...  get some experience as depth ffs even if it's not top shelf stuff.  We go from arguable best in the world at a position to someone who still lives at home and needs a ride to training and games.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:40 pm

@doc, very good post. but remember that for Mbappe we agreed a fee with Monaco, it's mbappe that chose PSG because he did not want to leave france, they paid more money than we could offer, and guarantee starter as well.

as far as the CF, you are right that we will need to take a gamble on someone soon

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Post by Doc on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:45 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I don't even want WC players (other than at CF; you *bleep* need scorers)...  get some experience as depth ffs even if it's not top shelf stuff.  We go from arguable best in the world at a position to someone who still lives at home and needs a ride to training and games.

Perez's Madrid, other than when we had Mou, doesn't like to do this for whatever reason. Then again, Madrid fans were crying when we rumoured to sign Aspas or Rodrigo (not here, we seem to be mature enough to understand things are very different now). Both of which I would so take now, like nooooow.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:49 pm

i think fans were crying at the prices, aspas was like 40 or 60 mil, can't remember, and Rodrigo 120 mil.

I agree that signing more experienced back up could be better, but that was hardly an option during the 4 or 5 past years with set starters everywhere and the increasing price of players. it became easier to sign young players

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:53 pm

I mean seriously... Asensio/Benzema/Lucas. Since it was Moscow, I thought we would luck into a goal or two... but could easily see us drawing a blank. Mariano HAD to start this game if for nothing else to have an aggressive player in the final third.

That said, what choices does Lope have exactly. He had to go with Reguillon (who doesn't belong) and he probably wanted some firepower on the bench to change pace. He has shit to work with.

BUT, i also think that Lope liked that he had all these Spain youth teamers that were familiar with his style of play rather than others. I get the feeling some of this was his choice.

I'm pissed.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:56 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:i think fans were crying at the prices, aspas was like 40 or 60 mil, can't remember, and Rodrigo 120 mil.

I agree that signing more experienced back up could be better, but that was hardly an option during the 4 or 5 past years with set starters everywhere and the increasing price of players. it became easier to sign young players

Why not Malcom, Nzonzi, Lenglet, Golovin, etc. Perfectly fine players and they would have jumped at the opportunity.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:08 pm

why sign Malcom? he is nothing special in my opinion. and we did not sign him simply because Asensio is being pushed this season. and there are squad players like Lucas and Vinicius that we want to promote.

Lenglet is 3rd CB at barca, he would be 4th at madrid. not a clear upgrade on Nacho, so not needed.

nzonzi could have been an interesting signing why not. It's the one thing i was not happy with. But i can understand the club wanting to give room to Llorente and Valverde.

Golovin, no comment.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 pm

I threw Golovin in there because he's better than Lucas even if he's on a stretcher Laughing

Malcom is a good player dude. And he's got some scoring in him to go along with speed and dribbling. We need a dynamic winger like that to change pace.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:47 pm

Let me ask you this... would you be in favor or paying big money for NDombele? I would. He's starting for 2 years at Lyon now and is really showing his worth in CL against top competition... and not to mention against the good Ligue 1 teams. Young... but with enough of a resume that you can actually project.

That's the kind of purchase I want to see.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 pm

yes, i was actually thinking about this because we have Kovacic coming back next season. But i believing in having an uber athletic player like Ndombele in midfield more than someone with Kovacic skillset.

Potentially having both Ndombele and Ceballos backing up the midfield is great.

If Modric leaves, maybe that opens up room for someone else. I just dont believe that unless we offer anything short of a starter position to Kovacic he would want to stay. To me he is gone. I dont see him doing enough by end of this season for us to feel like he is a must keep and we need to play him over Modric or Kroos

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm

I miss Callejon... he's wrecking Liverpool.

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Post by Thimmy on Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:41 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I miss Callejon... he's wrecking Liverpool.


Thought I was the only one on here who rated him. Everyone else seemed to think he was a headless chicken when he played for RM.

inb4 he's improved tenfold since

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Post by Freeza on Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:56 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I miss Callejon... he's wrecking Liverpool.


Thought I was the only one on here who rated him. Everyone else seemed to think he was a headless chicken when he played for RM.

inb4 he's improved tenfold since


He is what everyone somehow has been convinced Vazquez is.

Callejon is much better, faster and has technique.

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