Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:49 am

@Doc wrote:
@vanDEEZ wrote:We also need to keep in mind the new manager bump is a real thing. We played great for a few games under Lope, pressed well had a dynamic attack, even Benzema had good performances. It sounds very familiar to what is happening now. Today we played well, I am happy for Benz, but I still have my reservations.

Henry and Monaco would like to have a word about such things tbh.

They're playing a 3rd division lineup... if you think we have injuries, you should check them out.  Other than Falcao, Sidible and Jemerson, the other 8 are all teenagers with no experience and are not ready for Ligue 1 football at all.

Take a look at the lineup they had to play against PSG: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1281328/LiveStatistics/France-Ligue-1-2018-2019-Monaco-Paris-Saint-Germain

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:38 pm

Nacho out for two months (dislocation of the internal collateral ligament of the right knee).
Casemiro out for three weeks (sprained ankle).

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Nice lol.

Javi Sanchez has looked good so far. I like him. But we have no other CB loooooool. Varane is 2 weeks away.

Ceballos gets his shot. Defensively, we're going to get killed against top teams though and it's not on Ceballos btw. It's on Kroos. But again, no depth at CM after that.

it's going to be a VERY tough road.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:10 pm

in actuality, i agree with the manager bump theory by vandeez. we are in such an injury hit crisis we have no choice but to rely on youngsters. hopefully they'll use this as an audition and put in the work, because in all likelihood, come summer, the new coach won't want to put himself through this risk. depth cannot be ignored in football these days it seems
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:29 pm

Re the injuries;

Any word yet on Reguilion?

Given the two weeks break, will Carvajal, Marcelo be ready?

I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear Bale is also injured, given the way he was limbing out there!

Also the extra 2 weeks might be enough time for Isco to be fully recovered fitness after his appendicitis’s operation.

If all this is positive interest, then our exposures will be DM and CM plus the fact of no bench. Note, I won’t take Bale being out as any exposure!

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Apparently, Varane, Carvajal and Marcelo are going to train normally starting this week. So we should have our normal back line after the international break.

Ceballos in for Casemiro isn't the worse thing in the world.

Front line is fine.

We just have no depth if anything else goes wrong lol.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Apparently with Regulion, there was too much swelling to take test, make assessment, but likely he will be out for a while too.

As far as bench, with the three you mentioned being back will be Odriozola, Sanchez for defense, I assume Lucas will be the option if needed for LB; Isco, Fede and Llorente for MF (maybe it will be an opportunity to see if Fede is as good as MTO says, while Llorente remains a forgotton option); and upfront there will be Lucas, Vinicius and Asensio.

I'm not too concerned about the liga game, but this lack of bench is an issue re Roma game.

Re International break, there always is the risk of injuries there, but this time we are somewhat limited in exposure with only Modric, Courtois, Kroos, Ramos, Ceballos, Isco, Asensio, Bale participating.
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by The Madrid One on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm

No justification for Ceballos to play DM over Llorente or Valverde, Valverde is getting his progression affected. Should have played against Viktoria and yesterday as well.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Thimmy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:No our next game is in 2 weeks hmm


You're right, forgot about the damn internationals :facepalm:
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:10 pm

Talking about that DM position, how difficult is it to get it right? looking at our recent track record on the position, i feel like we lucked out with Casemiro.

we have no player in the squad who has Casemiro's physical and defensive potential to play that role, and it's a real shame summers after summers we dont get this right.

I dont know how we missed on Rodri, maybe his ties with Atletico were too strong, but that was a big miss. I saw William Carvalho rekt barca yesterday, and that was pretty nice. But he is very inconsistent.

My unicorn type player is a DM with elite playmaking skills and the physical potential of players like Caemiro. One can only dream

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by The Madrid One on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:22 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
My unicorn type player is a DM with elite playmaking skills and the physical potential of players like Caemiro. One can only dream




He's our best shot right now. He has better passing skills and speed/acceleration than Casemiro, lets see how he develops.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Thimmy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:25 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
My unicorn type player is a DM with elite playmaking skills and the physical potential of players like Caemiro. One can only dream




He's our best shot right now. He has better passing skills and speed/acceleration than Casemiro, lets see how he develops.


He's about 5cm and 10kg off Casemiro, but I suppose he's still young and has qualities that Casemiro doesn't have. I need to see more of his defensive ability hmm
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:35 pm

Likewise, i think Valverde will thrive as a number 8 ultimately.

Also, i remember the first time i saw Amadou Diawara i thought i had seen the future. His game in the bernabeu with Napoli he looked great but then, he kinda stagnated with Sarri, prefering Jorginho over him.

I would welcome us signing more athletically dominant players in midfield, as opposed to searching for the same type of players as Modric or Kroos.

Carvalho was truly fantastic yesterday



ps: this is not me advocating we sign him, he was not even a classic 5 in that game. i am just using him to prop up my argument

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:52 pm

@MTO, I get that you are a fan of Fede, but what I don’t get is why are you so down on Ceballos. He has played very well this year once he was given a chance. I also would like to see more of Fede, as he did look good in his one opportunity. But his opportunity doesn’t have to be at the detriment of Ceballos.

The real culprits this season have been Modric and Kroos. With their off form, they should have been replaced more often. But both are now improving.

The midfield seems to be, no matter who the coach is, Modric, Casemiro and Kroos. Isco is the 4th midfielder when they play with 4 and first off the bench. Ceballos is second off the bench and then Fede. You may not like it, but that is the way it is. Last season Ceballos was in exact same position.

Llorente is not trusted at all, hasn’t been by 3 coaches now. don’t really know why he is on squad.

I’m also not sure what spot Fede belongs in. At one point you were reporting him as a more forward attacking MF, aka Modric’s role, then another time you mentioned as a CM, I assumed aka Kroos. Now you are saying DM? Which one is it? Seems to me, he should be the natural backup to Kroos! As to what Solari will do in next couple of games, I expect Kroos will be the replacement for Casemiro and Modric will be teamed with either Ceballos or Isco, assuming his fitness is back.

But given Casemiro is out for a while, there should be opportunities to fit Fede into midfield and see what he can offer!

Question for you, does Solari know Fede? Was Solari at Castilla when Fede played there? And if so, what midfield role did he play there, also what role at Deportivo?
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by The Madrid One on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:14 pm

Regarding DM's, Kante and Makelele for example are two short men who are not elite deep lying playmakers, and off the top of my head, i bet most of the Champions League winning sides of the last 20 years have not had or needed to have these "perfect" players, rather they were balanced teams with appropriate players in relation to the overall schematic. Make out of that as you will.

@Bill, Ceballos has really disappointed me, and every time i see him i see a very average player, and when that happens i want to see them move on. Ceballos is another Illarramendi in my eyes, can turn his body well, play short passes in possession football schemes, but physically and with their passing abilities they are nothing special. If they were African or Swedish no one would talk about them imo.

Solari coached Fede for one whole season and even played him as a center back if i remember correctly. I also remember Solari talking very well of Valverde in a press conference years ago.

To me it has always been clear that Fede has the passing skills/attributes of a DLP and the physical traits of a Single Pivot/Double Pivot Central Midfielder with a concentration on Defense. I see him playing well in a double pivot, as a single pivot, or as an interior B2B kind of player, Not as an Attacking Midfielder. At Deportivo i believe he was played in a double pivot, an interior, and an attacking midfielder (erroneously), same thing happened with Jose Rodriguez at Deportivo when i watched him.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:14 pm

Ok Thanks for your views. While I don’t agree at all re Ceballos, I do hope Fede gets a good opportunity in Casemiro’s absense. I think we all can agree that Kroos is not the solution at that position, and although Ceballos filled in well for the 2nd half, he is not suited for that role either. And certainly Llorente in the opportunities he has not demonstrated enough for anyone to have confidence in him.
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 pm

TMO is one end of the spectrum with Ceballos while I be on the other end loving his football anytime he plays. Also, Llorente can, in theory, fill the role of Casemiro but whatever, let him continue to rot on the bench while a slow, sorta lazy Kroos or an attacking mid Ceballos try their best in the role.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:38 pm

I don't understand the criticism coming Ceballos' way. He's played really well any time he has been in. Fede has been average, and though he may be good in the future he is not the level to fill in for Casemiro (which isn't really his natural role anyhow).

Llorente should be playing there, but I think the jury is out, and the verdict is Llorente isn't the level either (according to all of our coaches he has been under), so he needs to be moved on.
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:11 pm

Why did they even keep him is beyond me. Zidane didn't want him, Lope saw him and also was like "nope". Just let him go...anywhere. Solari used fking Ceballos at DM ffs and Valverde (not a DM) is also higher in the pecking order lol.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:25 am

I remember reading EC club propaganda, the theory was, the club was not happy with Zidane not using him, and they thought Lopetegui would bring the best out of the spanish kids.

Which makes me wonder, arent there meetings between the club and the coach where they discuss how players are evolving etc...? Because the way madrid is run, they fully expect the manager to make the best out of the players they sign. I dont know if they get somekind of a progress report.

If there are such meetings, being positive about everyone wont help you. You have to be brutally honest about players who are not good enough and so on, although i assume it's hard to show when the kid is never playing. you may build an opinion about the guy but if you are not giving him chances or dont trust him, how do you justify to your employer that he is not good enough?


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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:34 am

He was saying after they came back from America that he wanted a CB and a MF, so that Vallejo and Llorente could go out on loan!

Not to pick on MTO, but he has watched Fede more than anyone. To my knowledge he has only played once or twice this season other than the games in America. He was impressive in that last appearance. I assume the lineup in next Liga game will be Kroos, Modric and either Ceballos or Isco, but going against Roma, I am concerned with Kroos or Ceballos in that DM role. However it won’t be a good idea to put Valverde in that role for 1st time, ....unless he gets to play it in the next liga game and impresses.
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Thimmy on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:40 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:and they thought Lopetegui would bring the best out of the spanish kids.




I read that somewhere as well. He was also expected to make us play with the same high pressing that he had the Spanish NT play with. Bet he didn't expect that the team would eventually transform into the most lethargic side in the league. Sucks to be him, I guess.

I don't think anything good will ever come out of this club hiring a coach, with the specific task of getting the most out of certain players, or having us play a certain way. The former seems to always lead to complacency, and the latter just means that the coach will be stigmatized and scrutinized for resorting to a plan B.
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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:54 am

Well, if you are signing young players, hiring a coach who had a track record of clicking with those young players is not a bad idea.

If you think about it, the next long term coach the club seems determined to hire is Pochettino, and it is a lot for the same reasons.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by FennecFox7 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:26 am

Just want to make a correction. Kovacic has been very good for chelsea. Probably one of their best players. His defending is very underrated and he is probably their most press resistant player. He plays the ball quickly and is their link between midfield and attack.

Huge difference with barkley playing versus kova. Barkley is a good player but Kovacic gives so much more to the game.

so no, he doesn't just make "straight line runs", @TMO, also ceballos has been immense this season, who on earth would criticize him? i was his biggest skeptic but he's proven me wrong with his hustle and ability

@Kick can probably give you the same input, i've watched chelsea this season and he's been fantastic.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:39 am

Again, any ideological manager who forces players to work within his system and isn't willing to adapt to the players' strengths/weaknesses...  is doomed to fail at a club like Madrid unless the core of the squad is already in line with the ideology.

I've harped on this a lot when Lope took over while hoping for the best and we briefly did well to start the season UNTIL the flaws of the idealogy with our current group of players got exposed.

Let's look at the issues from back to front with play a high line possession style with this Madrid:
-  Courtois is shit with ball at his feet and doesn't like to leave his line.  Horrible fit.
-  Ramos doesn't understand positional defense and, despite playing for Spain NT, just makes a lot of mistakes.
-  Marcelo plays no defense.
-  Varane and Carvajal should technically be ok.  But they get destabilized by Ramos/Marcelo.  So they end up in no man's land as the back 4 has no cohesion.
-  Casemiro has poor ball skills and, given where he plays, he needs to be super good and assured with his short passing (like Busquets), which he is not.
-  Kroos is more of a long range passer than a short range passer.  Not a dribbler at all.
-  Modric is perfect but he started in very poor form after the WC
-  Bale is a horrible fit.  'nuf said.
-  Benz is too inconsistent
-  Isco and Asensio were perfect too but started in poor form as well

MOST IMPORTANTLY, when you commit to an ideology, it's not a 2-3 month process... it takes years.  Madrid doesn't operate like that.

You also need to get player buy in and the manager have complete authority. The only ideological manager out there with that kind of pull is Pep. But even Pep's clubs have done poorly in CL because he needs that extra time to fine tune details against Europe's super elite.

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Re: Celta Vigo vs Real Madrid

Post by chad4401 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 pm

So went on Marca the other day for lulz, surprise surprise they are already engineering isco and asensio pity party, where is all the crazy hate that can be directed at benzema to "wake him up/put pressure on him" (scapegoating), why cant this guy(isco) can never be held accountable for his own play? I'm sure if isco was held accountable by bernabeau and the media he would humble himself years ago, and genuinely tried to improve his game but instead every season he still plays a like guy who wants to be applauded for every dribble and I personally saw a lot of his dribbles were flashy ways of hiding the fact that he is a bad passers and reads the games too slowly, every single season he has been at the club is the same circle jerk pressure managers to give him a chance he flops immediately start scapegoating benzema, when that does not work continues the pity party.

look at asensio nice player and there is still hope for him, but the media and bernabeau fans are doing the same thing with him like isco and thing are going in the same direction for him as well, let them earn the right to minutes like any other players especially when they are not that proven to begin with.

Those articles are why I don't take this whole real madrid is best ever and only the best can play for us or we shit on them energy that they(bernabeau, media and fans) try to give off it's all bullshit, when it as been proven again benzema wasn't the heart of the teams problems, but them future superstars that get all the cheers for doing shit all game long, now it's time to slowly start singling out bale next lmao hilarious stuff.

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