Real Betis v Real Madrid

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:53 pm

@Doc wrote:It would be stupid in a sense he has a lot of quality Solari isn't utilising but Madrid would be fine. He is my fav Madrid player currently but he is replaceable.

Another reason why he is struggling imo is the weakness of our midfield this season. He was playing much better in previous years because i thinkthe guys supporting him from behind were also much better. But this season, there is a sense that if one guy is not carrying his weight defensively or tactically, we will sink.


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Post by Doc on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:00 pm

I hate it when you put on your serious hat. Ugh.

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Post by titosantill on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:14 pm

i'm in camp "i don't see what isco has done to warrant starting", granted, solari doesn't like him for whatever reason, its up to him to use that to motivate himself to play better. he hasn't had a good game since roma. i especially need him to play well, cos i want us to get top dollar for him. but if he is no-showing in the few minutes he gets, can we really blame the coach who already doesn't like him for not playing him?

capello didn't like becks, he gave becks a few mins to prove himself and becks became almost indispensable to him, even with the english team when capello got that gig
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:19 pm

got to counter balance Chadinho's growing influence here.

Isco's lack if playing time has nothing to do with quality. THis is a player that played key games for us in the games like champions league semi finals and finals, clasicos, etc... he is a great player by any metric you can use.

But i believe he is also a playing whom have flaws and can be a liability for his team if not protected by other players. By the way, this also applies to players like Marcelo or Kroos. Many creative talents in football are like that.

It's kind of amazing we have succeeded and won so much with many of those types of players in the team recently: Guys like Kroos, Marcelo, Isco, james, even CR are the kind of creative talents that would you need to protect for their potential to show.

They can work hard, but they will do it in special circumstances and certainly not all the time. It just so happens that this season, we need hard working performances from everyone and we are not having it. In a perfect world, Isco is your n10, and he is backed up by 2 DMs who clean up behind him. This will never happen for him in Madrid. Another way for him to shine is playing high, pressing high, spanish possession style which Lopetegui tried but ultimately failed because it was asking too much from guys like Kroos and etc...

I get why Solari is not playing him and preferring other players, it seems plain and obvious. Isco probably had some words (according to medias at least) that accentuated the situation, and probably forced Solari into an even harsher position.

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Post by titosantill on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:32 pm

not saying he doesn't have quality, if it was about quality, isco would start. but he isn't playing well in the few minutes he is getting. there are others who aren't playing well too, but isco isn't playing well, and his primary position hasn't existed in our formation for like 5 years now. so you have a player who isn't playing well, and if included, would be played out of position at the same time.

it doesn't mean he is the reason why we are messing up, nor is he the main culprit for our situation. considering he isn't even starting games, the mess ups are not on him at all. but he just hasn't done enough to convince solari, at least not on the pitch, which is what we know. what we do not know is how he takes to training sessions, it seems he isn't convincing the coach there either

and it also does not exonerate solari nor his "steady the ship" type football
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:42 pm

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:03 am

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Post by Thimmy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:55 am

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Post by Doc on Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 am

Just to remind all and sundry, this took place in this match:

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:11 pm

Isco is struggling because he's not even a AM.  He's a traditional 10 who isn't effective on the wing.  The thing with Hazard is that he can play wide or the 10.  Isco is literally ONLY a 10.  

Not too many teams play with a 10 anymore.  So he's going to be limited unless a manager caters to his positional needs.

Ozil is in the same predicament... although he's far more talented than Isco imo.

We're in era where most positions require hybrid skills... meaning you can't only play one position. Fullbacks are about the only exception. Keepers now need to handle the ball at feet. CBs are also asked to handle the ball more. CFs that are pure 9s aren't very useful. etc.

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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:21 pm

I can't understand how to this day we are still making comparisons between Hazard and Isco when they are not even remotely the same kind of player and it's clear for everyone to see that the Belgian is better at absolutely everything related to football. Faster, a better dribbler, passer and scorer by a wide margin.

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:55 pm

I have said this before if isco was so good why is he so unwilling to leave? So called lesser players left to establish themselves at other elite clubs after 2 or 3 seasons, yet isco is so content with riding the bench going on 6 straight seasons, cause he knows Madrid fans and media are obessed with pep barca that the only thing that makes him relevant, pep barca is one of the worst things to happen to football ever since then average players like isco gets overrated as genius when he is just a ball hog that sucks at passing and he is clearly a Real Madrid flop.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:00 pm

Maybe because we are the best club ever? You would be a numpty if you make it to Madrid and at first sign of adversity to try to leave. Not to mention that Isco has had a successful career in Madrid all things considered, no amount of your crying will change that.

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Post by Mamad on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:04 pm

To People saying Isco doesn't fit the system... how can we say he doesn't fit the system when he doesn't even play? Laughing . we being shit this season is everyone's fault but Isco.

If we sit and rate players performances this season there are atleast 10 players who has been worse.

This "Isco doesn't fit the system" argument is nonsense imo. it's a made up thing to justify Solari's decision.

Isco actually is very good off the ball and he works hard. and he can play multiple positions for us.

we are talking about a player who has bossed some of the best teams in the world and put on world class performances when it mattered.

I have no doubt Isco will be one of our best players if he actually plays and starts. you can't perform when your coach has zero confidence in you and treats you like a piece of garbage. look at Pogba pre and post Mou for example.

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:04 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Isco is struggling because he's not even a AM.  He's a traditional 10 who isn't effective on the wing.  The thing with Hazard is that he can play wide or the 10.  Isco is literally ONLY a 10.  

Not too many teams play with a 10 anymore.  So he's going to be limited unless a manager caters to his positional needs.

Ozil is in the same predicament... although he's far more talented than Isco imo.

We're in era where most positions require hybrid skills... meaning you can't only play one position.  Fullbacks are about the only exception.  Keepers now need to handle the ball at feet.  CBs are also asked to handle the ball more.  CFs that are pure 9s aren't very useful.  etc.


Lmao isco is pure trash end of story, ozil and James are both pure 10 and they did way better than isco ever did in a Madrid shirt, and fan like you shit on them to prop up isco, if benzema and bale can get singled out after every game why can't isco take actual responsibility?

The guy hasn't assised benzema in 2 years and that doesn't stop people from shiting on benz, even though they know he ain't getting service every other game and it doesn't people from pretending that isco is some great 10 when he is clearly rubbish and been rubbish from his first season.


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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:09 pm

@Mamad wrote:To People saying Isco doesn't fit the system... how can we say he doesn't fit the system when he doesn't even play? Laughing . we being shit this season is everyone's fault but Isco.

If we sit and rate players performances this season there are atleast 10 players who has been worse.

This "Isco doesn't fit the system" argument is nonsense imo. it's a made up thing to justify Solari's decision.

Isco actually is very good off the ball and he works hard. and he can play multiple positions for us.

we are talking about a player who has bossed some of the best teams in the world and put on world class performances when it mattered.

I have no doubt Isco will be one of our best players if he actually plays and starts. you can't perform when your coach has zero confidence in you and treats you like a piece of garbage. look at Pogba pre and post Mou for example.


Wtf are you talking about? Isco has been bad all season alongside asensio, he started in cska game at home and he was shit, and everytime he comes on as a sub he is terrible, it's your opinion but come on you know he has been bad.

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Post by Mamad on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:11 pm

This is an old problem though. we sold young Robben's and Sneijder's for cheap to buy an old ass injured Kaka. we never rate our players.

now we want to get rid of Isco to buy Erriksen Laughing

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Post by Mamad on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:13 pm

@chad4401 wrote:
@Mamad wrote:To People saying Isco doesn't fit the system... how can we say he doesn't fit the system when he doesn't even play? Laughing . we being shit this season is everyone's fault but Isco.

If we sit and rate players performances this season there are atleast 10 players who has been worse.

This "Isco doesn't fit the system" argument is nonsense imo. it's a made up thing to justify Solari's decision.

Isco actually is very good off the ball and he works hard. and he can play multiple positions for us.

we are talking about a player who has bossed some of the best teams in the world and put on world class performances when it mattered.

I have no doubt Isco will be one of our best players if he actually plays and starts. you can't perform when your coach has zero confidence in you and treats you like a piece of garbage. look at Pogba pre and post Mou for example.


Wtf are you talking about? Isco has been bad all season alongside asensio, he started in cska game at home and he was shit, and everytime he comes on as a sub he is terrible, it's your opinion but come on you know he has been bad.

First of all the whole team has been shit. second No he hasn't been that bad. comparing to others. and there is nothing tactical about him being on the bench. and that's frustrating.

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:22 pm

What isco been jogging around all season like he owns the teams,he doesn't pass, press or defend, he is not a team player either, change isco name to illarra or Danilo or Lucas and fans would trash him.

let's be honest if it wasn't for iniesta brilliance isco is irrelevant, a lot of fans been waiting and still waiting to live up these expectations, that real reason why people are so patient with him, isco knows that and that why he won't improve as a player, he ain't 21 anymore yet he still gets the future tag come on now.

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm

Name one other player who has been hyped as isco, and has been content with riding the bench for 6 season, every manager other than solari has tried to make him a starter and he fails every time and it's never his fault ever because he is good at dribbling.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:29 pm

This is the 3rd time you are bringing it up but Isco's situation has nothing to do with Sneijder and robben's. The latter were actually wanted by their previous coach to stay but they were sold just to raise money, not because they were not a good fit.

Whereas for Isco we don't need to sell, nor have we sold him yet. What he is struggling with is fitting in the coach's plan week to week. He has had the same challenges with the previous managers by I think this season he reached a breaking point making because he was truly expecting to feature like a key starter with CR gone.

Very different situations. Also the trade off Isco x Eriksen would work for us because Eriksen is tactically wayore flexible, and looks to me like he has a higher work rate off the ball and given his physique, is also more adept at covering space.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:49 pm

Nobody in their right mind thinks Isco isn't a very talented footballer. Has he been effective with that talent at Madrid? In spurts. He's had some very high quality moments.

He was absolutely magnificent with Malaga and they played at the highest level including CL.

Some of his failures at Madrid are on him, others on the club... and, until this year, on the extreme competition at the club.

I don't understand why the world needs to be so black or white for some.

And yes, Isco hasn't been any more any less shit than most of our attacking players this season. Only exception is Benzema (mostly).

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:55 pm

@Doc wrote:It would be stupid in a sense he has a lot of quality Solari isn't utilising but Madrid would be fine. He is my fav Madrid player currently but he is replaceable.


And this. It's not like our current Madrid team is flowing over with attacking talent. Asensio has been more shit than Isco and he's gotten a ton more looks...not to mention Isco had appendicitis surgery during the season.

I don't understand why wouldn't give him one clear look (meaning a 6 week run) and then decide. It's not like we're going to win anything this season anyhow. Play a front line of Vini-Isco-Benz with Casemiro-Modric-Kroos (when healthy) and let things fall where they may.

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Post by chad4401 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:20 pm

100% - Real Madrid under Santiago Solari have won 100% of their games without Isco Alarcon in all competitions (6/6), compared to 63.6% with him (7/11). Debate. pic.twitter.com/SdJVtz5Ugs

— OptaJose (@OptaJose) January 13, 2019 " alt="" />

Solari is 6/6 when isco doesn't play at all, and it's 7/11 when isco plays in any capacity Laughing

Here some stats for you if isco plays the teams chances of losing goes up significantly, like I have been saying all this time, he is bad and has been bad ever since he came to the club

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:37 pm

That is such a shitty stat.  He's come on for the last 5-15 mins and/or when Solari is desperate to get a score since we're behind.  He never comes on when we're ahead in the score.

I can't remember one time where he started a game under Solari.

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Post by Mamad on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:14 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:This is the 3rd time you are bringing it up but Isco's situation has nothing to do with Sneijder and robben's. The latter were actually wanted by their previous coach to stay but they were sold just to raise money, not because they were not a good fit.

It's exactly the same. it's about not appreciating what you have.

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