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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:11 pm

here is a piece from ABC talking about the 4231 and the status of the players in the squad at the moment...

https://www.abc.es/deportes/real-madrid/abci-zidane-quince-fijos-y-muchos-interrogantes-201904210144_noticia.html

:coffee:

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Post by Cyborg on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:49 am

Pogba and Casemiro in midfield?

Can he perform in a two man midfield? he isnt that type of player.

I dont see what Pogba brings to Madrid. There are better midfielders that fit.

Plus he will be so expensive.

Plus his attitude when things arent going well is not good.

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Post by Thimmy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:38 am

I can't stress enough how poor of an attitude he has. Watching him literally walk around the pitch like Özil on a particularly lazy day is incredibly frustrating, and he's done it enough times to put Özil to shame. I'm not even a Man United fan, and I think I've been more than patient enough in waiting for him to come good for Man United over these past 3 years. I'm sure there are a lot of things one can blame for his lack of consistency and, at times, outright disrespectfully poor workrate, but 3 years of far more poor games than good ones and little to no impact in big matches is not a sign of a winner. And no, winning the world cup with his national team means jack squat when your attitude is that poor. I wish we'd been linked to Kanté instead. Now, that's a winner. I'll stop talking about how much of a letdown I think Pogba is, from now on. If he ends up joining us, I'll just fucking bash my head against the wall every time he looks like he's doing low energy dabs for 90 minutes.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:15 am

you don't watch them enough then thimmy.  He's their best player on the pitch and easily even at his worse.

The guy has 16 goals and 11 assists (13+9 in EPL) all comps this year for Man U and he's played half the season as a holding mid under Mourinho.  

If you want to compare that to all our CMs combined (Kroos, Casemiro and Modric)...  and it's almost comical. Not just this year too... every year. CR just didn't need a whole lot of help.

We need him because he's a bonafide threat out of the midfield + he's one of the best CMs in the world in terms of being a CM.  Our midfield literally brings no danger.

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Post by Thimmy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:58 am

@sportsczy wrote:you don't watch them enough then thimmy.  He's their best player on the pitch and easily even at his worse.

The guy has 16 goals and 11 assists (13+9 in EPL) all comps this year for Man U and he's played half the season as a holding mid under Mourinho.  

If you want to compare that to all our CMs combined (Kroos, Casemiro and Modric)...  and it's almost comical.  Not just this year too...  every year.  CR just didn't need a whole lot of help.

We need him because he's a bonafide threat out of the midfield + he's one of the best CMs in the world in terms of being a CM.  Our midfield literally brings no danger.


Yes, he's their best player when he feels like giving a damn, which never seems to be against any teams worth mentioning. I'd argue that De Gea has consistently been their best player since Pogba returned to Old Trafford, but it doesn't matter. Our midfield certainly needs upgrading, I'm extremely sceptical about Pogba being the right guy. No one's questioning his talent, but his attitude warrants criticism. Being held back by his team mates is one thing, but blatant lack of effort and enthusiasm is the most frustrating thing to watch, and we have seen enough of that this season, already. Guti is one of the most talented midfielders I've ever witnessed, yet hardly any non-Madrid fans remember him - talent isn't always enough. Ambition, effort, enthusiasm and loyalty towards the club is what makes a reliable performer. It's rare to find a non-homegrown player that exhibits all of those traits, but ideally, a high-profile transfer target should, at least, possess some of them. Pogba better fucking step up his game if we do get him. I'll be the first one to complain when he starts looking like a spoilt brat, and we're losing because he's the focal point of our attack.
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Post by Thimmy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:00 am

@sportsczy wrote:He's their best player on the pitch and easily even at his worse.


That part is simply not true. I haven't watched every single one of Man United's games, but I have watched the majority of them, due to a large portion of my friends being Man United fans. Pogba at his worst is literally useless.
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Post by Doc on Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:26 am

I've watched Utd very consistently since he's been there and I would say Thimmy is very much on point when it comes to Pogba at Utd. There are times where he is really unplayable but it's like he needs to "feel" for it. It doesn't help, however, that he really has no quality support in midfield. Like, none. But that's when Utd are playing teams of equal or greater footing as said teams know that Paul is the only man they need to lock down and Utd become undone midfield wise. So, in that sense, I'll give Sports credit, Paul looks like their best player out there as he is the only one who actually knows how to use the ball. Apparently.

When Utd is playing the "minnows" however, Paul either needs to "feel" the need to put in a serious effort (where he would have a blinder) or simply moves like he doesn't give a shit and it tends to be the latter than the former (see their 4-0 drubbing from fucking Everton, Everton!!!!). Please also understand that it's not just me or Thimmy, Utd fans (the reasonable ones anyway) really have issues with him and unlike Madrid fans, they would blame everything else except the players and they are actually getting fed up of Paul.

Anyway, as much as I really love his talent, I am so skeptical of us pursuing him in his current state. We are not Man Utd and this isn't the Premier League. The Bernabeu has little patience for divas and none for men who show indifference to the cause (see Bale) and Paul has shown indifference many a time.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:03 am

So just like James before him Bale is struggling for suitors and might be going out on loan :facepalm:
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Post by sportsczy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:43 pm

You guys talk a lot of nonsense. There's only one player who was able to pull a mediocre team in terms of talent to great heights. Maradonna. And he only did that for one year at Napoli. Otherwise, he would show brilliance inconsistently (there was no internet so you didn't see all his games... but he took months off) BUT was brilliant with NT.

Messi and Ronaldo... they're able to pull elite teams to max elite. When you put them on mediocre sides in terms of talent they could only do so much. Messi gets torched for being "passive" with Argentina and Ronaldo basically only had one good tournament with Portugal... Euro 2016. Otherwise, Ronaldo was getting criticized for Portugal's poor results on the big stage.

And that's the other sheer idiocy of some of the comments here.... Pogba can't step up with mediocre teammates against elite teams. Really? That's a criticism? You do realize that elite teams have elite talent and all they need to do is choke out Pogba since there is no other creative talent on that team. That was the tactic against Maradonna at Napoli and it often worked like a charm and he would just drift. But Napoli fans knew what was going and they were just happy to have him... they couldn't blame him for getting kicked left, right and center and not being able to play through that every game.

You want an elite player to perform consistently as an elite player? Put him on an elite team. There is no other solution.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:01 pm

Even United fans realize this ffs

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-easy-target.446798/

Quote from the moderator on this thread:

Pogba's biggest problem is that he's very talented. On a good day he looks great. On a bad day, he looks like he's wasting that talent and people decide that it's because he doesn't care enough. Personally, I think it just comes back to there being no such thing as a one man team. He needs movement ahead of him and people he can trust behind him.

If he wants to stay, then we need to build a team that plays to his strengths - we'll be a better team if we can do it, because Pogba's strengths are exactly what a good team can use to get a great win on a tough day.

If he doesn't want to stay then it's different and maybe it's because we don't really feel like we know if mentally/emotionally he's already got a foot out of the door that he's the one people assume is the bad guy in the dressing room or want to use as a scapegoat after every poor show.

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Post by Doc on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:58 pm

It's only nonsense because we simply do not see Paul the same way you see him. That's palpable. I stand by what I wrote though as I know what I'm seeing. So does Thimmy. We aren't bias against or for Utd or Paul, just calling it as we see it.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:05 pm

Pogba is not RM material. Imagine when he decides he's had enough and starts trotting about the pitch like he did v Barca. As if we didn't have enough of that already.

No thanks to Pogba, he can stay where he is and be joined by Bale in the summer
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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:20 pm

When Sports get on his hype train, any other opinion is sheer nonsense!!!!
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:22 pm

I need @Hans to settle this argument

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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:35 pm

Pogba is not Real Madrid material but Lucas Vazquez is.

What are we? Sunderland?

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Post by Doc on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:38 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:Pogba is not RM material. Imagine when he decides he's had enough and starts trotting about the pitch like he did v Barca. As if we didn't have enough of that already.

No thanks to Pogba, he can stay where he is and be joined by Bale in the summer

It's not talent I question as that is undeniable. It's the commitment I question, a lot.

Also,
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@Hans

@Freeza
You wanted us to hire Laudrup so yes, maybe we are Sunderland.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:51 pm

@Freeza wrote:Pogba is not Real Madrid material but Lucas Vazquez is.

What are we? Sunderland?
players like Lucas are essential to a winning team. Maybe not a starter but great off the bench and giving starters a rest every now and again. Pogba if he came would be a starter and like Bale it'd be difficult to shift him when he eventually fails. Look at Modric bless him, he just hasn't got it anymore but you can never question his commitment. No just no to Pogba. We need new players alright but Pogba should be as far from this club as possible. He wont have ZZ forever, who knows when Pogba decides to go 1v1 with the coach like he did with Mou. Uff gtfo
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:57 pm

Who is the last top player that we signed in recent years who was a consensus yes for everyone here?

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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:01 pm

@Doc wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:Pogba is not RM material. Imagine when he decides he's had enough and starts trotting about the pitch like he did v Barca. As if we didn't have enough of that already.

No thanks to Pogba, he can stay where he is and be joined by Bale in the summer

It's not talent I question as that is undeniable. It's the commitment I question, a lot.

Also,
Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc - Page 29 9k=

@Hans

@Freeza
You wanted us to hire Laudrup so yes, maybe we are Sunderland.


I never once hid my bias towards hiring Laudrup.

So many on here have problems in regards to this.

Also Laudrup have done better in Europe than both Solari and Lopetegui, so I don't see why he'd not be good Molenation

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:19 pm

Given the form Benzema is finishing the season with + the love Zidane has for him, I'm wondering whether we should really spend the money to sign Jovic...

I am not saying this because Jovic is not a good talent, but it's clear that he will sit behind Benzema seeing how things are looking and he will not immediately be put in a position to succeed and this might impact how he progresses as a player... We know how sensible young strikers can be with their confidence

Isn't it a safer bet to sign a Cavani like striker for example for cheap for 2 years? Other CFs talents will continue to emerge in the coming seasons

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:25 pm

We are going to play both of them Nick. It’s your man Vinícius that will be a backup!
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Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:28 pm

Marca saying we are looking to loan Bale out due to a lack of suitors. My god, the state of this guy.
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Post by Doc on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:34 pm

@Freeza wrote:I never once hid my bias towards hiring Laudrup.

So many on here have problems in regards to this.

Also Laudrup have done better in Europe than both Solari and Lopetegui, so I don't see why he'd not be good Molenation
Hala has never hid his bias towards mediocre Castilla products though. I don't know why he is enamored by such players but he likes them. Also, you're comparing Laudrup with a non-descript manager in Lope and possibly the worst manager we ever had in Solari. I concur, that is his level of comparison.

@Nick
Um, no one. I don't think we ever had a 100% consensus on any player. Not even on goal.com forums afaik.

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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:43 pm

@Doc wrote:
@Freeza wrote:I never once hid my bias towards hiring Laudrup.

So many on here have problems in regards to this.

Also Laudrup have done better in Europe than both Solari and Lopetegui, so I don't see why he'd not be good Molenation
Hala has never hid his bias towards mediocre Castilla products though. I don't know why he is enamored by such players but he likes them. Also, you're comparing Laudrup with a non-descript manager in Lope and possibly the worst manager we ever had in Solari. I concur, that is his level of comparison.

@Nick
Um, no one. I don't think we ever had a 100% consensus on any player. Not even on goal.com forums afaik.


Not Castilla products only. Also mediocre players in general like Navas.

Laudrup has won trophies though hmm

The worst case I've seen on here was when people kept saying Khedira was one of our most important players. Still can't believe that was a thing. Absolute rubbish player, and it's no surprise what we became once he was benched.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:51 pm

@Doc wrote:
@Freeza wrote:I never once hid my bias towards hiring Laudrup.

So many on here have problems in regards to this.

Also Laudrup have done better in Europe than both Solari and Lopetegui, so I don't see why he'd not be good Molenation
Hala has never hid his bias towards mediocre Castilla products though. I don't know why he is enamored by such players but he likes them. Also, you're comparing Laudrup with a non-descript manager in Lope and possibly the worst manager we ever had in Solari. I concur, that is his level of comparison.

@Nick
Um, no one. I don't think we ever had a 100% consensus on any player. Not even on goal.com forums afaik.
I was thinking about Xabi Alonso actually

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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Guti? hmm

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