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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Guti? hmm

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:23 pm

Are you implying Guti was a galactico?
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Post by Freeza on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:47 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Are you implying Guti was a galactico?


He was def. We didn't sign him though. One of the greatest footballers of our time.

There's never a consensus about anyone on here though. Hard to achieve a consensus when half the userbase wanted Arbeloa, Khedira and Carvalho to start once upon a time.

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Post by titosantill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:56 pm

by virtue of being a big club, with relatively deeper pockets compared to many other clubs, i don't think there can be a consensus as to who fans will want. unless said player is an absolute beast ala a cristiano or a zidane type player, OR if its a position that really needs to be filled and the name in question is big time. and even then, there will still be skepticism, its just the nature of big global clubs
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Post by Freeza on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:03 am

Not even Cristiano was a consensus player.

On ability? Sure. But there was much to be desired elsewhere.

Zidane might be the closest thing to that. In modern times at least.

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:05 am

@Freeza wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:Are you implying Guti was a galactico?


He was def. We didn't sign him though. One of the greatest footballers of our time.


And here I thought you were being sarcastic again. We are talking about the same Guti who spent the majority of his career as a reserve or backup player?
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Post by titosantill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:34 am

@Freeza wrote:Not even Cristiano was a consensus player.

On ability? Sure. But there was much to be desired elsewhere.

Zidane might be the closest thing to that. In modern times at least.


true, i don't know about what was going on within forums at the time, but there where many in the spanish media who didn't want cristiano (which was a very ridiculous conclusion to reach, hindsight or not). there has always been this humility obsession in spanish football, cristiano doesn't embody that, and as such, some in the madrid press didn't want him lol. a ridiculous criteria to go by if i ever saw one
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Post by titosantill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:37 am

i think most people wanted ozil. unless there was little to no debate about him, i can't recall any push back in the media about ozil, don't know about what was happening on forums at the time
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Post by Doc on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:42 am

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:Are you implying Guti was a galactico?


He was def. We didn't sign him though. One of the greatest footballers of our time.


And here I thought you were being sarcastic again. We are talking about the same Guti who spent the majority of his career as a reserve or backup player?

I seriously cannot tell if young Freeza is being serious or having a giggle. Guti Hernandez? Same Guti Hernandez that did his hair to look like Redondo? That guy?

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Post by titosantill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:50 am

whilst we are discussing transfers, i want to throw out a scenario. now i want to start this up by saying, it is entirely made up, it is entirely hypothetical, and it is not attached to any news or stories. it's just what i think our plan is

mr nick made a post on jovic on the previous page and why he thinks we shouldn't make the move. here is why i think the club wants to make such a move. he is a convenient signing (i've detailed why in another post so i won't go on about it).

two, if the club have their eyes set on mbappe in 2 years, benzema will be 33 by then, mbappe can easily come in and unless jovic actually beasts, his status as the bench guy will not change and he will move unto being mbappe's subordinate.

jovic isn't viewed as the long term plan but just a convenient back up guy, to appease fans like "look we signed a cf", until they can broker an mbappe deal
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Post by titosantill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:59 am

now here's the danger of the above scenario i painted. the most dangerous thing, we may never even be able to get mbappe; he'll be in his 3rd year next season and best believe psg will offer an extension. if he doesn't take said extension, all the cards are in his hand. if he stays healthy, suitors are sure to come. the thought that only madrid can come and say "we are madrid , sign for us" is bonkers. this isn't 2003

city will be interested, so too clubs with spending power, utd, hell even barcelona. messi is 31, barcelona do not play the loyalty game like the madrid board can be known to do. they are actively looking for a suarez replacement. in 2 years or a year, they may figure the next candidate to carry over from messi is mbappe

more than mbappe signing an extension, a bidding war between spain's 2 powerhouses may be more attractive to psg.  barca on the other hand may be looking at how they replaced dinho, who was a nemesis to us, with messi; that transition could be appealing for them

can you imagine that happening? this attitude of making nice in the transfer market doesn't work in our favor at all, so if indeed we are trying to play the patient game, we really should do our homework on it and cover all basis
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Post by sportsczy on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:15 am

PSG have no chance of Mbappe signing an extension... they know that because Mbappe has made it very clear both publicly and privately. I actually believe this is Mbappe's last year at PSG. It was always going to be 3 years. PSG won't get the 250-300 mil pricetag they want unless there's 2 years left on his contract. That happens next summer.

The danger though is that he goes to EPL or Barca as opposed to Real Madrid. Madrid actually don't have the only deep pockets anymore. Mbappe will go wherever he 1) gets paid the most and 2) offers him the best opportunity. He cares very little about tradition.

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Post by titosantill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:30 am

exactly my point, best thing for him to do is not sign an extension, wait and turn the market upside down. its why we have to be proactive, all this talk that they keep publishing in articles linking him to us, just feels like huff and puff. same as it was with neymar and he ended up at barcelona. that is my biggest fear, that we will play the role of nice guy only for this guy to end up at one of these other clubs or worst still, barcelona
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Post by sportsczy on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:34 am

We need to pay him the most or the same as the highest bid... it's all about the money. If we try and underpay by saying "this is Madrid and you should be honored to come here", we've lost already.

That's how we've always gotten our galacticos btw. We always paid the most both in terms of fee and wages.

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:46 am

I'll also add that the notion that you build a TEAM around one player is asinine.  You can build an area around a player...  not a team.

Madrid, in our best years, built the defense around Ramos, the midfield around Modric and the attack around CR.

Same with Barca... the defense is built around Pique, the midfield is Busquets believe it or not (which is why they sucked when Busquets was playing poorly) and Messi on the attack.

Bayern's great teams had Lahm as the defensive anchor, Schweini as the midfield stud and Ribery/Robben as the attacking duo (they built around wing play, not a player in this case).

Even the great Milan teams...  they were stacked!

Man U has no defensive leadership... and no attacking leadership.  PSG has Mbappe (due to injuries to Neymar), Verratti and Thiago Silva.

I think that Madrid would do very well if the defense is built around Varane/Ramos (Ramos is getting older), Pogba (Modric is getting older) and Hazard (you can't build around Benzema, Bale, Isco, Asensio, etc.).

Having a great spine on a team is the only way to play at an elite level.

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Post by Freeza on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:04 am

@Doc wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:
@Freeza wrote:

He was def. We didn't sign him though. One of the greatest footballers of our time.


And here I thought you were being sarcastic again. We are talking about the same Guti who spent the majority of his career as a reserve or backup player?

I seriously cannot tell if young Freeza is being serious or having a giggle. Guti Hernandez? Same Guti Hernandez that did his hair to look like Redondo? That guy?


I just watched one highlight video of Guti right now. You can’t convince me he isn’t the greatest midfielder of the last 50 years

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Post by Doc on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:04 am

You're right, I cannot. The man was blessed with a football ability that I can literally only dream of. Guti in this era would be a fucking God like midfielder.

But greatest midfielder, ugh, he definitely had g.o.a.t level talent, shame he showed that once in a while. Very much once in a while.

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Post by Freeza on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:22 am

@Doc wrote:You're right, I cannot. The man was blessed with a football ability that I can literally only dream of. Guti in this era would be a fucking God like midfielder.

But greatest midfielder, ugh, he definitely had g.o.a.t level talent, shame he showed that once in a while. Very much once in a while.


I’m kind of trolling. But I think Guti had a pretty much consensus opinion from Madrid fans.

Mainly because everyone knew the position of the player. He was a rotational player and super sub who loved the club with all his heart.

A lot of time players like him get a lot of flack because the coach either benched them or plays them too much.

I miss him so much. Been a long time since we had such an option as a 12th man.

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:47 pm

@Freeza wrote:Not even Cristiano was a consensus player.

On ability? Sure. But there was much to be desired elsewhere.

Zidane might be the closest thing to that. In modern times at least.

Iker also. In his prime, he was a consensus player. What a keeper he was for so many years. He literally won us trophies during a period in the 00s when our defense was utter shit.

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:00 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@Doc wrote:You're right, I cannot. The man was blessed with a football ability that I can literally only dream of. Guti in this era would be a fucking God like midfielder.

But greatest midfielder, ugh, he definitely had g.o.a.t level talent, shame he showed that once in a while. Very much once in a while.


I’m kind of trolling. But I think Guti had a pretty much consensus opinion from Madrid fans.

Mainly because everyone knew the position of the player. He was a rotational player and super sub who loved the club with all his heart.

A lot of time players like him get a lot of flack because the coach either benched them or plays them too much.

I miss him so much. Been a long time since we had such an option as a 12th man.


Well now you have it. Lots of talent, great heart (edit - most of the time), super sub, great 12th player!

But 12th player, super sub does not make one the greatest!!!

And if you want to open up an old debate, no he is not a club legend! He is remembered as a good and loyal player and longevity with club. But also thought upon as never realizing his full potential
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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:45 pm

I can’t get over the skepticism that exists on this forum, esp. Tito, both Docs.

Nick has explained over time the logic or rationale of Flo re not spending the last few years, plus there was the issue of stadium financing as well as Flo’s reluctance to enter into this new financial reality created by PSG state money and EPL television money.

But all of that is now in the past! Flo came into the reign with knowledge and criticism of what had gone wrong in his first reign. Two of them were stability and patience. If you look back on it, this regime has been very successful primarily because he allowed stability and got a super respected and motivating coach. He also listen to that coach who repeatedly said you don’t change unless you can get an improvement! His downfall was clearly waiting to long to make those necessary improvements.

If we look to what has been out there, he is signing Militao, Hazard, Jovic and almost for sure a midfielder (the who in this case isn’t known). Then you also have the other expensive Brazilian phenom joining his compatriot on this revised team. That’s already a huge change over past few years, plus they will be getting rid of players who don’t fit into the revision.

All in all, there is plenty of insight to changes happening that should not warrant the skepticism!

Plus bear in mind that as I have said previously, don’t expect the transition to be done in one season, both in acquisitions and developing the team cohesion.

I think trying to get Mbappe is a reasonable vision for next year. As to Jovic, why can’t he start along side of Benz, and later Mbappe? After all Mbappe, came from Monaco as a clear CF to play along side of Cavani. Why not same with Jovic. Nick keeps saying Vinicius will start whereas I say it will be Jovic. Both are starlets, but one has been scoring goals whereas the other still hasn’t found the technique! I have no doubt that both Vinicius and Rodrygo will become essential parts of this future team, but there is no need to rush them. Jovic on the other hand has already started to put up impressive numbers and is more developed.

I do think with the two Brazilians, Jovic, Hazard plus Benz and hopefully later Mbappe, our attacking resources will be just fine!!! And therefore the biggest issue right now is the midfield revision!
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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:03 pm

Bale is a consensus player. Everyone knows he's shat

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:06 pm

Before I get into this, and I will since now I'm even INVITED to, I just want to point out real quick to sports that many, if not most, of Pogba's goals come from him taking Utd's penalties.

I will add, for starters, that ME PERSONALLY would like Pogba to Real much more than I would like it if Real were to buy, say, Ndombele.
For me PERSONALLY, Pogba would be a great fit at Real.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:39 pm

Manchester United Chase James

Spoiler:


05:23



Manchester United are after Chelsea's Reece James, accoding to the Daily Mail.

The 19-year-old defender has been on loan with Wigan this season, and has impressed during his time in the Championship as he's appeared 43 times while being named to the Team of the Season.

James is under contract through 2022, having signed a new deal with the club before going out on loan.







Did you really think we would finally get rid of him? Smile
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Post by The Madrid One on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:01 pm

Regarding James, i'd actually have him rather than Asensio or Isco, has shown he can be a  better jack of all trades than both of them when he played for Carlo and in Bayern as well apparently (LAM, RAM, LM, RM, LCM, CAM). But ZZ prob doesn't want him, and i feel he may have plans for Asensio.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:15 pm

James is better than Isco.
And I mean that honestly, he's better than Isco at anything Isco supposed to be good at.
So you'd better cash in huge money for some gullible Isco buyers and have James on the bench than have Isco on the bench and bad vibes in the Spanish public all the time.

Because none of the two is good enough to start.

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