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Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:15 pm

James is better than Isco.
And I mean that honestly, he's better than Isco at anything Isco supposed to be good at.
So you'd better cash in huge money for some gullible Isco buyers and have James on the bench than have Isco on the bench and bad vibes in the Spanish public all the time.

Because none of the two is good enough to start.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:23 pm

I think both James and Isco will go honestly. There is not much between them imo, but James made a fuss when he wasn't starting. Isco hasn't really done that to the extent James/Bale have done in the past.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:01 pm

So basically sign both? Wonderful input

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Post by Mamad on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:33 pm

Isco is going nowhere. Zidane believes in him.
And no. James is not better than Isco. Maybe the world cup version of James is better but on their normal day Isco is better.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:00 pm

Isco lol, he will never be a long term Madrid starter. He should leave if he knows what's good for him lol

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Post by Freeza on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:03 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@Doc wrote:You're right, I cannot. The man was blessed with a football ability that I can literally only dream of. Guti in this era would be a fucking God like midfielder.

But greatest midfielder, ugh, he definitely had g.o.a.t level talent, shame he showed that once in a while. Very much once in a while.


I’m kind of trolling. But I think Guti had a pretty much consensus opinion from Madrid fans.

Mainly because everyone knew the position of the player. He was a rotational player and super sub who loved the club with all his heart.

A lot of time players like him get a lot of flack because the coach either benched them or plays them too much.

I miss him so much. Been a long time since we had such an option as a 12th man.


Well now you have it. Lots of talent, great heart (edit - most of the time), super sub, great 12th player!

But 12th player, super sub does not make one the greatest!!!

And if you want to open up an old debate, no he is not a club legend! He is remembered as a good and loyal player and longevity with club. But also thought upon as never realizing his full potential


that's like saying Manu Ginobili isn't a legend lol.

Guti is the Ginobili of Madrid Molenation

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Post by titosantill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:11 am

@futbol_bill wrote: If you look back on it, this regime has been very successful primarily because he allowed stability and got a super respected and motivating coach. He also listen to that coach who repeatedly said you don’t change unless you can get an improvement! His downfall was clearly waiting to long to make those necessary improvements.



wrong!!! the success has been due to winning 4 UCLs in 5 years. but lets look at that success. 2 out of those 4 came in crisis moments. we fired a coach in one of them (Rafa), we lost the league in like october during the other ucl win, in a season barcelona lost only one league game. so even in 2 of those successful seasons it was in a crisis period

you say flo allowed stability. in those 4 ucl wins we had 3 coaches; not much stable in that. fact of the matter is, this whole bullcrap of a season; worst season i've experienced as a madrid fan, and possibly one of the worst teams we have put out, could have been avoided

i can't speak for others, but my skepticism comes from our history of not learning our lesson. we shouldn't have had to wait till last summer to make adjustments. but hey, we had to crap the bed and watch barcelona celebrate yet again for us to realize "hey, maybe the squad isn't getting any younger".

if we had to wait until we completely crapped our pants before we started being proactive, then i've got every reason to be afraid. as i said, i'm not getting excited about any rumors until i see flo and said player holding the jersey at a media presentation
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Post by The Madrid One on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:14 am

As per Marca and AS, Third Reich Frankfurt's sporting director has explicitly stated publicly that there are real possibilities Jovic joins specifically Madrid.

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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:04 am

@titosantill wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote: If you look back on it, this regime has been very successful primarily because he allowed stability and got a super respected and motivating coach. He also listen to that coach who repeatedly said you don’t change unless you can get an improvement! His downfall was clearly waiting to long to make those necessary improvements.



wrong!!! the success has been due to winning 4 UCLs in 5 years. but lets look at that success. 2 out of those 4 came in crisis moments. we fired a coach in one of them (Rafa), we lost the league in like october during the other ucl win, in a season barcelona lost only one league game. so even in 2 of those successful seasons it was in a crisis period

you say flo allowed stability. in those 4 ucl wins we had 3 coaches; not much stable in that. fact of the matter is, this whole bullcrap of a season; worst season i've experienced as a madrid fan, and possibly one of the worst teams we have put out, could have been avoided

i can't speak for others, but my skepticism comes from our history of not learning our lesson. we shouldn't have had to wait till last summer to make adjustments. but hey, we had to crap the bed and watch barcelona celebrate yet again for us to realize "hey, maybe the squad isn't getting any younger".

if we had to wait until we completely crapped our pants before we started being proactive, then i've got every reason to be afraid. as i said, i'm not getting excited about any rumors until i see flo and said player holding the jersey at a media presentation


Tito, I was referring to squad stability and no matter how you count them, 4 CL trophies in 5 years is indeed a success by any yardstick!
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Post by titosantill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:00 pm

it is a success, especially with 3 coming back to back, i'm not denying that. 4 ligas since 2004 is an atrocity though, especially for a club like this. and we have lost like 3 ligas by a ridiculous number of points in some of the most recent years.

the ucl is great, the pinnacle of club football no doubt, and we have to be proud of it. but if we can be real with ourselves, it has also masked the reality of the situation.
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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:54 pm

Tito, what you’re expecting / demanding is virtually impossible in today’s futbol reality!

Sure he could have made some changes in the last couple of years that we won CL and certainly should have done something last summer. But who knows if some changes would have resulted in missing the last two CLs.

You are ignoring the realities of today’s futbol. To be able to challenge for both CL and liga, you really need two complete squads and that means paying top dollar to beat competition for 20 players AND convincing the second tier golden boys that they have to ride the bench in some games.

You actually seem to want to go back in time
- when they could bully the other spanish teams for best spanish players and pay the spanish players peanuts
- bring in impoverished kids into the academy as babies
- and buy the best three imports in the world at whatever cost was necessary, while meanwhile paying little to rest of squad.

So I say your skepticism is not based on reality and as I said early there already are indications that changes are indeed happening.


Last edited by futbol_bill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cyborg on Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:As per Marca and AS, Third Reich Frankfurt's sporting director has explicitly stated publicly that there are real possibilities Jovic joins specifically Madrid.


Is he good? I don't watch bundesliga games or europa league.

I've seen clips of him, looks like an ok player. Nothing that stands out really.

Maybe someone who watches him more can fill us in?


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Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:14 pm

Jovic is very good. For the price we will likely get him ~60-80m there is absolutely no one on the market with this much value. Also some key points to note- he is a bit similar in how Benzema functions within a teams (drops deep, good link-up play, creates space for others) BUT Jovic is much younger, has a better goals/90 and assists/90 this season and he can press like no other. And this is comparing to the resurgent Benz of this season- not bad. This is the info that has been passed to me from a friend of mine who follows the Bundesliga very closely and I trust it.

He is not going to be Mbappe levels, but if Benz is getting old, and ZZ wants a player who can function like Benz, then there is really no better option for the price.
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Post by Valkyrja on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:16 pm

With all the hype surronding Mbappe, have you guys seen him trying to shoot with his left foot ? Its comically bad Laughing

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:49 pm

I will be a bit jelly, but honestly if Real want to pay 60-80m for Jovic then I can say I don't mind that we don't compete for that.
Way too early to tell whether he will be anywhere that good.

He's a good talent but whether he will be a THAT good, who knows.

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Post by Cyborg on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:09 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I will be a bit jelly, but honestly if Real want to pay 60-80m for Jovic then I can say I don't mind that we don't compete for that.
Way too early to tell whether he will be anywhere that good.

He's a good talent but whether he will be a THAT good, who knows.


That's interesting, Bayern usually snaps up any good prospects in bundesliga.

@ vandeez, from the clips I've seen, he reminds me of a young Higuain. Not Bezema.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:22 pm

Jovic is a good talent, he has everything to succeed but the price is steep for a player who has only had one season in a top 4 league.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:23 pm

@Cyborg wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:I will be a bit jelly, but honestly if Real want to pay 60-80m for Jovic then I can say I don't mind that we don't compete for that.
Way too early to tell whether he will be anywhere that good.

He's a good talent but whether he will be a THAT good, who knows.


That's interesting, Bayern usually snaps up any good prospects in bundesliga.

@ vandeez, from the clips I've seen, he reminds me of a young Higuain. Not Bezema.


Eh, I don't see that parallel imo. Higuain when he was young played as a ST and winger (when he had the pace). Jovic doesn't have that pace, he plays as a SS like Benz. Where Benz is probably better at dropping deep to create space for others, Jovic is better at dropping deep to create space for himself. Not saying Jovic and Benz are the same, but functionally if ZZ wants a SS playing as CF to get goals AND assists Jovic is the profile of player that most closely operates that way.

And for those worried about the potential for a 1 season wonder, I get that fear. And I am almost certain if Jovic comes his goals tally won't improve immediately, but he has enough in his game to be useful in other ways and he is young enough to improve over time.
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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:29 pm

Plus he can score goals vs the still developing Vinicius! Here’s looking at you Nick. hmm
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Post by Thimmy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:42 pm

Jovic seems to have a very good work ethic and appreciate that. I don’t really see the exceptionality in the talent department, but I’ve exclusively watched Youtube highlights of him and it’s not like there’s a lot of material there. I have to agree with Hysterical Hans that there’s no telling whether he’ll turn into an elite player, or no more than an above average talent with a high work rate.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:24 pm

Does Woodward work out? Does he do squats? Cause we really need him to trap Pogba and his money-grabbing whore of an agent really tight between his butt cheeks until they run out of air and completely change their mind about ever coming to Madrid.

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Post by titosantill on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:20 pm

i'm not so against signing pogba (if indeed the rumors are true), its zidane who seems to want him, so he (zidane) may be able to make things work. i'm more wary about negotiations with utd than his agent, united may be thinking they should charge more than they spent for him, which to me is ridiculous, taking into account his situation, form, and the fact he is older. at this point, us signing him from them is doing them a favor

@futbol_bill, if the expectations to have a squad to compete on the cl and la liga front is unrealistic, then let's be realistic and keep this exact same team for another season. if it was unrealistic last summer, what has made it realistic this summer?

its not just signing but proper scouting, and that can't happen without a technical director or a coach with proper backing. i hope zizou really turns our fortunes around, so we don't have the president acting as a technical director with little idea on who to sign.
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Post by Cyborg on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:31 pm

Pogba seems to have a lot of issues. Wouldn't want to sign a spoiled brat.

Then again the English media can make anyone look good or bad.

In Italy Pogba was like a great, on the pitch and in the media.

That being said, I still don't think he is a good fit.

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Post by Mamad on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 pm

Can somebody please explain why Zidane does not like Llorente?

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Post by The Madrid One on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:59 pm

I believe there were rumors they had an exchange of words back when both were in Castilla. Also, Llorente is not particularly exceptional and might simply not fit in Zidane's grand scheme of things.

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Post by Nivash on Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 pm

LLorente's done enough to warrant at least a place on the bench. He's performed well in most chances that he's gotten. It's not a matter of being special or not (he does seem to have the potential to develop into a very good player). It's also uncommon that a DM/defensive CM ever looks like they have something particularly special. Their position is entirely meant to be mundane, doing the jobs noone wants to do, and even less people want to watch being done

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