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Post by Blue on Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:04 pm

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comment-julian-assange-arrest

Very typical the MSM is going along with the Trump administration, once again they are showing their true colors. I guess to them mean tweets by Trump or being rude to Jim Acosta are true threats to freedom of press.

What kinda world do we live in where Tony Blair and George Bush are walking free and continuing to wealth off their war crimes. While Chelsea Manning Julian Assange are being tried and sent to jail for exposing their crimes.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:35 pm

ffs No

The guy is a hero who has withered away in quasi-detention for years and now has even lost that refuge

We are all watching and doing nothing, once again

Same thing will happen to Snowden, some day, and we're going to go about our daily lives feeling good about living in a free society

as an aside, politicians in wheelchairs are not to be trusted. We have the archetype of Dr Strangelove, and we have the example of Wolfgang Schäuble, who has been the dark, evil force behind the worst elements of Merkel's policies for years and who has badly hurt millions of people in southern Europe, and now we have the sinister case of this CIA secret agent president in Ecuador, or how else would you explain such a blatant 'heel turn', I believe you kids call it, after an election?

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Post by Unique on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:47 pm

he released classified infomation what the fuck did he think was gonna happen to him. i support what he does but he had to know it would lead to this.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:06 am

@Unique wrote:he released classified infomation what the fuck did he think was gonna happen to him. i support what he does but he had to know it would lead to this.


Agreed. And lets not pretend Assange is a heroic rebel fighting for our interests, he's fighting for his own interests and wiki leaks involvement in the 2016 election is questionable to say the least.
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Post by Blue on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:35 am

@FennecFox7 wrote:
@Unique wrote:he released classified infomation what the fuck did he think was gonna happen to him. i support what he does but he had to know it would lead to this.


Agreed. And lets not pretend Assange is a heroic rebel fighting for our interests, he's fighting for his own interests and wiki leaks involvement in the 2016 election is questionable to say the least.


You don't have to like Assange to be against the Trump administration actions. That is the thing about principals, you cannot stand up for it when it is convenient. You cannot say you are for freedom of press than only stand up for it when it suits your purpose. It is hollow and never really were behind those values.

I personally think Assange is a narcissist and bit self serving, but it does not change his actions. What he did in exposing US gov war crimes was necessary and good work, the people have the right to know the actions of the gov that represents them.

Nothing with the indictment has anything to do with the 2016 elections, it is more to do with the incident in 2010. Also the Dems have only themselves to blame, their treatment of Bernie Sanders and their attempt to push Hilary on us was absolutely undemocratic. They are to blame, can not fault Assange for exposing it.

I honestly hold Chelsea Manning in much higher regard, imo i would earnestly call her a hero. In fact for a whole month she was held in solitary confinement which is absolutely unconstitutional because of her refusal to testify against wikileaks. Every American should be greatly thankful of her and her brave actions. Her crime is exposing true criminals without her leaks they would continue to hid in shadows.

Secondly this sets a bad precedent for any journalist and the greatest threat to freedom of press and democracy, gov can punish and deter journalist who they see as a threat to their regime.

Some of the traditional media claim that Assange is not a journalist, but this is a ridiculous exception to make. Because you are allowing the gov to determine who is a journalist and who is not. It starts here and in the future the gov can claim other journalists who they see as threat to no longer classify as journalists.

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Post by McLewis on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:14 pm

I think I would have more sympathy for Assange if he also exposed Russian and Chinese state secrets as well. If he's truly just an unbiased leader of a free press organization being crucified for daring to expose corruption within these powerful institutions, why were these exposures so one-sided against Western nations? Does Russia not have as many skeletons in their closet as we do? How about China? Am I missing something here?

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Post by Unique on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:17 pm

@McLewis wrote:I think I would have more sympathy for Assange if he also exposed Russian and Chinese state secrets as well. If he's truly just an unbiased leader of a free press organization being crucified for daring to expose corruption within these powerful institutions, why were these exposures so one-sided against Western nations? Does Russia not have as many skeletons in their closet as we do? How about China? Am I missing something here?
he dont want to end up with novichok in his coffee thats why.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:26 pm

@McLewis wrote:I think I would have more sympathy for Assange if he also exposed Russian and Chinese state secrets as well.


Whataboutism at its finest

Shame on you

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Post by Unique on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:38 pm

also i cant understand why any americans have sympathy for manning. even if you dont agree with the things your country are doing you should never betray it. by all means quit your post and turn your back on the people you work for but you should never betray your country.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:41 pm

@Unique wrote: even if you dont agree with the things your country are doing you should never betray it.


If your country is committing crimes against humanity you are morally obliged to betray it

Chelsea Manning is a hero

Assange is also a hero for what he did with WikiLeaks. That he's probably also an arsehole, an egomaniac and quite possibly a sex offender doesn't negate this.

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Post by Arquitescu on Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:44 pm

China has enough skeletons to fill its closet to amass a graveyard. I cannot stress enough how much they truly get away with or the way to describe how utterly filthy they have been in that regard post-Mao.

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Post by Unique on Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:32 pm

i wonder if tommy robinson had posted his stuff on WikiLeaks if he would have got a bit more respect for outing the police and government for all the lies and cover ups he exposed.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:39 am

@Unique wrote:also i cant understand why any americans have sympathy for manning. even if you dont agree with the things your country are doing you should never betray it. by all means quit your post and turn your back on the people you work for but you should never betray your country.


TBH outing your own country for war crimes isn't betraying your country, it's saving it from itself. Imagine you uncovered a British genocide, would you rather it continue, to make Britain a shittier country, or would you try to stop it, to make Britain great again?

IMHO people like Snowden or Manning are the real patriots. Willing to sacrifice for the good of all.

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Post by McLewis on Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:34 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@McLewis wrote:I think I would have more sympathy for Assange if he also exposed Russian and Chinese state secrets as well.


Whataboutism at its finest

Shame on you


You can call it whatever you want to call it. It really doesn't matter much to me.

I care more about consistency. Assange is anything, but. I don't mind him having an agenda to expose corruption in our government, but when it is one-sided and only seems to favor our opponents on the global stage, I'm going to question his intentions. I can't ignore that even if I wanted to.

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Post by Zagadka on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:13 am

Assange and Wikileaks have published lots of dirt on Russia as well. Hell, they published the latest version on Russia's surveillance program in SEPTEMBER 2017 (a full year after they were accused of being some sort of Russian intelligence) lol. And that's just off the top of my head, there are more from before.

https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/

--------------------------------------------------

Assange is a fucking hero. I love the bloke. It's a disgrace what's happening to him and the dehumanization project of CIA and those in power on him is working on some.

When the people in power want you to dislike someone, they find ways to make it happen. That's my biggest takeaway.

He's being arrested (his DOJ charge) because of releasing US' war crimes in Iraq and Afganistan in 2010. How US shot dead civilians and Reuters reporters. Anyone who supports his arrest really should never ever speak of "decency" , "human rights" , "being on the right side of history".

Unfortunately, literally entire Western Europe is a vassal state of the US Empire, so no chance of fair trial for Assange and that's why he in the first place sought refuge in Ecuadorian embassy. He was willing to stand trial for the accusations re: Sweden rape case (no condom applied = rape lol) , but he knew it's just a trap and he'll be immediately extradited to US. In case people didn't know, Assange actually saught refuge status from Russian Embassy in London in 2012 too, but his request was declined.

Anyways.....I'm thankful Assange and Wikileaks lived to show the world the truth behind the "Humanitarian" war and democracy bombs of the united states dropped on brown people. Not to mention how big brother is watching you is well alive through surveillance programs (with help of other heroes such a Manning, Snowden and of course Glenn Greenwald). Not to mention Wikileaks caused many democratic uprisings in the world, such as in Tunisia, which was the first Wikileaks revolution.

We don't deserve Assanges and Wikileaks of this world. We deserve the sweet lies told to us by cable TV commentators like Tapper, Hannity or Maddow, intelligence agency workers, and the powerful gov't positions and Tech monopolies.

What's interesting is that Assange was considered a hero among most Liberals and left-leaning people even in the US until just 3-4 years ago....until he showed the world the slimy and lying face of Hillary. Then all of a sudden the American left joined the CIA and the right-wing to dehumanize him and basically call him Assangovich. Assange' biggest crime is giving us TRUE and FACTUAL information that we didn't want to hear and know. Wikileaks remain the ONLY institution to never have published fake news and has 100% reporting accuracy.

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Post by Zagadka on Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:28 am

@Unique wrote:also i cant understand why any americans have sympathy for manning. even if you dont agree with the things your country are doing you should never betray it. by all means quit your post and turn your back on the people you work for but you should never betray your country.


If you're a German in the early 40s and you have knowledge your army is gassing people alive...and you have evidence that you can show to foreign publications to bring attention to this mass crime. Would you do it ???

That's not betraying the country....that's betraying the scumbags who happen to be RUNNING and be IN CONTROL of your country at the time. But nothing is permanent...
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Post by Blue on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:19 am

@Zagadka wrote:
What's interesting is that Assange was considered a hero among most Liberals and left-leaning people even in the US until just 3-4 years ago....until he showed the world the slimy and lying face of Hillary. Then all of a sudden the American left joined the CIA and the right-wing to dehumanize him and basically call him Assangovich. Assange' biggest crime is giving us TRUE and FACTUAL information that we didn't want to hear and know. Wikileaks remain the ONLY institution to never have published fake news and has 100% reporting accuracy.

That is an interesting point, i think liberals viewpoint on Assange changed a long time ago though, well before the Hilary scandal. 3-4 years ago the scandal turned Assange into into a greater Villain, but the perception of him turned long ago. Assange was considered a hero to US liberals when the public was in opposition to George W Bush and the Iraq war. Since then the perception of Wikileaks and Assange have changed, as liberals activism for peace degraded.
US liberals in America have abandoned anti-war and peace sentiments for a while now, liberals used to be proud of their activism against war. Nowadays only those in the progressive movement are true to those values. Obama and Hilary destroyed pro peace viewpoints, due to their consistency with the previous regime.
There really little to no difference in the Dem and Repub viewpoints on foreign policy, in fact Hilary was more war hawkish as any presidential candidate regardless of political party.


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Post by VivaStPauli on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:30 pm

I think it's more that many people (including liberals) are weary of Assanges apparent megalomania, and can probably see the allegations of sexual assault as having some merit, just doesn't seem contrary to his character.
Never seen this as a largely political discussion.
I think leak wise, a lot of people on both sides of the isle have a lot of respect for whistle blowers, and those that support them.

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