2018/19 UEFA Champions League Final: Liverpool FC vs Tottenham Hotspurs

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Post by titosantill on Thu May 09, 2019 1:03 am

the uefa cup was never on the same level as the european cup. that some good teams or good players won it doesn't mean it was on the same level or even better than the european cup or later the champions league, quit that. what's next? the cup winners cup was also some great competition?

the best thing those competitions did was give opportunities for management to scout less popular talents e.g. guys like klinsman although one can argue he didn't even need that to put his talent on notice. stations where hardly covering the games apart from local media when their team was playing. and only maybe the final games where being sold on vhs. i don't want to poopoo it, it had good moments but it was never the european cup

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Post by adun101 on Thu May 09, 2019 1:38 am

@titosantill wrote:the uefa cup was never on the same level as the european cup. that some good teams or good players won it doesn't mean it was on the same level or even better than the european cup or later the champions league, quit that. what's next? the cup winners cup was also some great competition?

the best thing those competitions did was give opportunities for management to scout less popular talents e.g. guys like klinsman although one can argue he didn't even need that to put his talent on notice. stations where hardly covering the games apart from local media when their team was playing. and only maybe the final games where being sold on vhs. i don't want to poopoo it, it had good moments but it was never the european cup



ECC had only teams that finished 1st in their leagues. UEFA Cup had teams that finished 2nd through 5th in the top leagues. Which one do you think was more difficult to win? ECC was more prestigious and the one that teams wanted to win, but UEFA Cup was the better and more interesting competition.

The '95 final was between the two teams that were battling for the league title and that were playing also in the national cup final. But, apparently the UCL was still better.

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Post by titosantill on Thu May 09, 2019 1:55 am

yes it was still better, you only brought up one final. teams prioritize; and most teams prioritized their leagues over winning the uefa cup, unless it was in the later stages like the quarters. in no world was it considered as good as the european cup....if it was it would garner more sponsors and won't have had to change formats over and over again. over time uefa has done a lot to make it make sense to teams participating in it.

anyways my point remains that spurs , if indeed they win the ucl, having ucl uefa cup and cup winners cup is nothing special. unless ofcourse we want to now say the cwc was also better than the european cup. porto winning the uefa cup and the following year upping the ante to win the ucl is more impressive
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Post by Doc on Thu May 09, 2019 2:04 am

Only living memory I have of the UEFA Cup is when Inter won it and I also remember Jjuve and Milan fans making fun of them for winning the lesser competition. If some folks found it was better, glory to them I suppose but the European Cup has always been the premier competition. Both in terms of prestige and actually winning it.


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Post by adun101 on Thu May 09, 2019 2:38 am

@titosantill wrote:yes it was still better, you only brought up one final. teams prioritize;


Then, maybe look up the other teams, too.

UCL: Ajax, Milan, Bayern, PSG, Benfica, United.
UEFA: Juventus, Parma, Lazio, Napoli, Borussia, Deportivo, Eintracht, Real, Newcastle, Marseille, Bayer

@titosantill wrote:and most teams prioritized their leagues over winning the uefa cup, unless it was in the later stages like the quarters.


Some teams prioritized Serie A over UCL, too

@titosantill wrote:in no world was it considered as good as the european cup....

Considered or not, it was better.

@titosantill wrote:if it was it would garner more sponsors and won't have had to change formats over and over again. over time uefa has done a lot to make it make sense to teams participating in it.

The UCL didn't have that many sponsors either and the UEFA Cup had to change formats because its appeal started to go down the when UEFA increased the number of UCL places for national leagues. Today's UCL is basically the old ECC and UEFA Cup combined.

@titosantill wrote:anyways my point remains that spurs , if indeed they win the ucl, having ucl uefa cup and cup winners cup is nothing special. unless ofcourse we want to now say the cwc was also better than the european cup. porto winning the uefa cup and the following year upping the ante to win the ucl is more impressive


Your point is still wrong because your judgement is made with today colored glasses. Europa League is a shitty competition that the "big" teams and their fans despise (I haven't watched a full game in 15 years)  but winning the old UEFA Cup was a great achievement and, while less prestigious than winning the ECC, it was more impressive. CWC wasn't too shabby either, because the big teams actually cared about that one, too. Today it's a lot easier to get into the CL, so playing in the EL feels like a failure.
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Post by adun101 on Thu May 09, 2019 2:42 am

@Doc wrote:Only living memory I have of the UEFA Cup is when Inter won it and I also remember Jjuve and Milan fans making fun of them for winning the lesser competition. If some folks found it was better, glory to them I suppose but the European Cup has always been the premier competition. Both in terms of prestige and actually winning it.



Well, both Juve and Milan had recently won the UCL and the UCL had already started to have two teams from the top leagues. In fact, the following year was the last one for the CWC
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Post by titosantill on Thu May 09, 2019 3:10 am

cos players where just dying to play in the almighty uefa cup. as i said , even in the 80s, teams contending for league titles prioritized the league over it. major tv stations around europe where not broadcasting the uefa cup live except it was the final. by the 90s there was just an abundance of talent all around the board, and even then, there was no argument. the european cup always had the top broadcasting rights.

only time it was a big deal to players was in the much latter stages. no one at top sides was going at the start of the year "lads we really need to win this uefa cup", and that says much about a competition than anything else. they didn't even want to be in it, it has always been like purgatory to big sides, whether in the 70s 80s 90s or now. doesn't mean its trash, it just is what it is
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Post by S on Thu May 09, 2019 5:05 am

@CBarca wrote:So who is rooting for who here anyway?

Surely Spurs can't be so disliked that people would rather Liverpool? Although I guess Spurs just knocked out Ajax so that will be held against them


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Post by sportsczy on Thu May 09, 2019 5:22 am

@tito... those cups were very good.  Better is a big word.  But very much equal.  Remember that the old European cup only had the previous year's champions in them from all the leagues around Europe while the UEFA cup was a broader competition and Cup Winner's competition was more relevant because cups meant something.

I grew up watching these tournaments.  I didn't feel that any of them outrumped the others in terms of quality due to the depth of the leagues.

Just to give you an example, Ajax was CLEARLY the best team in Europe in 1987 imo (insanely talented with Van Basten and Gullit leading them)... yet they won the Cup Winner's cup.  Juventus was without the shadow of a doubt the best team in 1983-84.... they won the cup winner's cup too.

I'm telling you, all 3 cups were of equal importance to people at that time.  It didn't matter.  The best teams were spread across all the competitions. Very, very different landscape compared to today... and a lot more fun tbh.

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Post by adun101 on Thu May 09, 2019 6:35 am

@titosantill wrote:cos players where just dying to play in the almighty uefa cup. as i said , even in the 80s, teams contending for league titles prioritized the league over it.


And like I have already mentioned, they prioritized over the ECC, too


@titosantill wrote:major tv stations around europe where not broadcasting the uefa cup live except it was the final. by the 90s there was just an abundance of talent all around the board, and even then, there was no argument. the european cup always had the top broadcasting rights.

The games were only on Wednesdays, no Thursdays and no Tuesdays. There weren't that many channels either, so they were showing the games for the teams from their own country and that's it.

@titosantill wrote:only time it was a big deal to players was in the much latter stages. no one at top sides was going at the start of the year "lads we really need to win this uefa cup", and that says much about a competition than anything else. they didn't even want to be in it, it has always been like purgatory to big sides, whether in the 70s 80s 90s or now. doesn't mean its trash, it just is what it is


You have no idea what you are talking about. It's time to stop
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Post by adun101 on Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 am

@sportsczy wrote:
Just to give you an example, Ajax was CLEARLY the best team in Europe in 1987 imo (insanely talented with Van Basten and Gullit leading them)... yet they won the Cup Winner's cup.


How were they the best team, if PSV won the league? And the ECC the next year.
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Post by Robespierre on Thu May 09, 2019 8:25 am

@Doc wrote:
@titosantill wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:If Tottenham win Champions League , they would have won all the 3 European cups : Champions League , UEFA Cup, and Cup's Winners Cup
And it is just Tottenham
Unbelievable


tbh that's not a magnificent achievement. i mean, yeah winning ucl is magnificent, but uefa cup and cup winners cup? lol. it just means they've been mid-card status long enough to get those


Yeah, not really sure if that's some grand achievement either.


It Is not a relevant achievement if it Is Real Madrid , Bayern, Juventus or Manchester United .

It Is incredibile if TOTTENHAM make this.
Basically we are talking about the English Lazio.

The matter Is so simple.  I meant this.

@Doc wrote:Only living memory I have of the UEFA Cup is when Inter won it and I also remember Jjuve and Milan fans making fun of them for winning the lesser competition. If some folks found it was better, glory to them I suppose but the European Cup has always been the premier competition. Both in terms of prestige and actually winning it.



It Is impossible Milan fans were making this in '98 though Laughing


Last edited by Robespierre on Thu May 09, 2019 10:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Robespierre on Thu May 09, 2019 8:36 am

We should also change one of best quotes of the best recent movies if Tottenham win this

2018/19 UEFA Champions League Final: Liverpool FC vs Tottenham Hotspurs - Page 3 Screenshot-20190509-093344-2

So , YNWA

(anyway what a incredibile year for CBarca with Bucks and Spurs in final ? At least I like the first too tbh)
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Post by S on Thu May 09, 2019 1:02 pm

People saying this is going to be boring final seriously need to take a hike

All those so called 'glamorous' finals in the past have mostly been one sided

Who cares if both teams are from the same country ? We have one team who has never made a CL final in their history prior to this and another team who have always looked impressive im Europe.

The way Spurs have comeback in this comp makes me think this is going to be the most competitive final in years. Add to Klopp's tendency of choking im finals, you can almost call this as a 50-50 although Pool start as favourites.

Two teams who have thoroughly deserved to be in the final. I am hoping for a Spurs win because the banter following that is going to be epic.

Hoping the banter and the build up is going to be epic. Unique and Cspurs booked in the main event ffs. Who would have thought...
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Post by Doc on Thu May 09, 2019 2:19 pm

The English Lazio, when I thought I could not like Spurs even more, Robes gives me a fresh new perspective. Thank you fratello Robes.

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Post by M99 on Thu May 09, 2019 2:22 pm

Expectation: Johan Cruyff Final
Reality: Peter Crouch Final

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Post by Helmer on Thu May 09, 2019 3:30 pm

I think this will be a super cagey final people would have ever seen in a European competition.
Had it been Ajax, I would have talked about tactics but with this match, I would say it will be all about nerves and being calm and composed.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu May 09, 2019 3:31 pm

@Helmer wrote:I think this will be a super cagey final people would have ever seen in a European competition.


Considering Juventus vs Milan exists i doubt that.
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Post by iftikhar on Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 pm

What's COYS???
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu May 09, 2019 4:49 pm

@iftikhar wrote:What's COYS???


Come on you Spurs hmm
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Post by sportsczy on Thu May 09, 2019 8:55 pm

@adun101 wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
Just to give you an example, Ajax was CLEARLY the best team in Europe in 1987 imo (insanely talented with Van Basten and Gullit leading them)... yet they won the Cup Winner's cup.


How were they the best team, if PSV won the league? And the ECC the next year.

Because PSV also had a great team.  But that Ajax team was Van Basten's in his absolute prime with Cruyff as the manager.  Other players included Danny Blind, Rijkaard, Bergkamp, Schip, Bosman, etc.

They were absolutely a dream to watch.

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Post by Warrior on Thu May 09, 2019 9:07 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@iftikhar wrote:What's COYS???


Come on you Spurs hmm



Even the motto has no charisma

It's useless as acronym

Of course the guys will say come on, it's their club Laughing
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu May 09, 2019 11:03 pm

Isn't there also a COYGunners ? I thought it was a generic motto for clubs in england

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Post by sportsczy on Fri May 10, 2019 12:51 am

adun is 100% right btw and i grew up in that era.

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Post by Robespierre on Fri May 10, 2019 1:07 am

I think it is going to be a balanced final and I've already hype.
So relieved to follow it as neutral without the worry of your enemy to win it as I believed at the beginning of the year. ( I want Liverpool to win the final , but I won't be desperate if Tottenham win it of course)
I understand perfectly the mood of Manchester United fans and Arsenal fans, you are going to undetake a war of liberation as me in 2015 and 2017. I saved myself both the times, good luck to you.

A question for Liverpool fans , who would have you preferred to face in final , Ajax or Tottenham ? Curious to know.
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Post by Unique on Fri May 10, 2019 1:53 am

@Robespierre wrote:I think it is going to be a balanced final and I've already hype.
So relieved to follow it as neutral without the worry of your enemy to win it as I believed at the beginning of the year. ( I want Liverpool to win the final , but I won't be desperate if Tottenham win it of course)
I understand perfectly the mood of Manchester United fans and Arsenal fans, you are going to undetake a war of liberation as me in 2015 and 2017. I saved myself both the times, good luck to you.

A question for Liverpool fans , who would have you preferred to face in final , Ajax or Tottenham ? Curious to know.
spurs. Ajax were dangerous because they could play without fear because all the pressure would have been on Liverpool also Liverpool know everything about spurs.

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