Post-season assessment (why wait lol)

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Post by sportsczy on Mon 13 May 2019, 00:30

Current keepers:  Courtois, Navas and some scrub.
Review:  Disastrous year all around for Courtois.  Navas is getting up in age.  Scrubs will be scubs.
Outlook:  If you can get a better keeper, go for it.  But it's not a priority.  I'd give Courtois another year and keep Navas to compete.

Central Defenders:  Ramos, Varane, Nacho and Vallejo
Review:  Our regulars under-performed while the backups were a big sack of the smelly stuff
Outlook:  Ramos/Varane is still great.  We seriously need to upgrade the backups though.  We signed Militao so we're all good imo.  Nacho can't suck this bad two years in a row.  Besides, he's the 4th CB.

Fullbacks:  Marcelo, Carvajal and the two spanish kids
Review:  Disastrous year by Marcelo.  Poor by Carvajal.  The kids weren't ready and they weren't expected to be.
Outlook:  We're signing Mendy to compete with Marcelo.  We'll likely loan out one of the kids.  Nacho is actually a decent backup at fullback.  So I don't think we need  more other than signing Mendy.

Midfield:  Kroos, Modric, Casemiro and the kindergarten kids
Review:  It sucked every which way you can imagine.  Nothing good I can say about our midfield play.  
Outlook:  This is 1 of the 2 areas where we need a TON of help.  Need to replace Modric and Kroos.  Need to have proper backups and not kids.  Pogba, Ndombele, Rabiot, etc. are all rumored.  Sign as many as we can imo.  We need to revamp this area of the pitch completely.

Forwards:  Bale, Isco, Asensio, Lucas, Vini and various kids
Review:  Just as bad as the midfield.  Complete revamp job needed.  Vinicius is talented but not ready to be a regular at Madrid imo.  
Outlook:  We're likely signing Hazard.  we need to sign a right winger (if Lucas is the regular, I may cry).  Vini and Rodrygo as the primary backups.  Allows them to learn without pressure.

Centre Forward:  Benzema and crickets
Review:  Benzema did great after a slow start.  No depth meant that we couldn't play the in form striker.  Sigh.
Outlook:  If we sign Jovic and with Rodrygo coming, we're fine

If we sign Jovic, Hazard, Pogba, Mendy, Ndombele and with the arrivals of Militao and Rodrygo... we're back in business.  Really need a right winger though.  Not hearing enough rumors for that position.  Has me worried a bit.

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Post by Doc on Mon 13 May 2019, 04:46

Following Sports format (thanks for the effort btw):

Current keepers:  Conetois, Navas and some scrub.
Review: Conetois is a rubbish fucking keeper that we really should not have signed at all. Navas is an above average keeper who is still a good keeper in his own right that should not be starting for us.
Outlook: We're gonna be starting Conetois as our new no.1 and I hate it so much. Envying Oblak and MaTS so much right now.

Central Defenders:  Ramos, Varane, Nacho and Vallejo
Review: Ramos is a natural dunce of a defender but this season, he become more of a natural dunce. Love it. Varane has moments where he is unplayable and moments where we shouldn't be playing him. Speaking of not playing ever again, Nacho could go to Roma or Napoli now, love the guy and wish him the best. Vallejo, um, Hala could use him for his local team in Sweden. Would be a decent addition for their weekend 11 a side kick around.
Outlook: We already have Militao and we'll see how that goes. I would want a replacement for Nacho, badly. Ramos, I mean, yes but he has a way of being so good at the moments where you really need your CBs to be good. Torn imo. Varane NEEDS to stay.

Fullbacks:  Marcelo, Carvajal, Regi, Odri
Review: Marcelo is done, Idc. He is done and Serie A could use his services. Carvajal is also kinda done and I think this needs to be talked about more. Way more. Regi is not exactly Madrid starter material but he has done better than Marcelo this season. As for Odri, I think there is actual starter material there but I doubt Zidane would use him as he really is hoping Dani recaptures his 16/17 form.
Outlook:Get new FBs as what we have is either done or far from being in ideal form

Midfield:  Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Llorente, Ceballos, Valverde
Review:  Sigh, when 3 of your starters have been absolute shit for an entire season, you know you'll have nothing positive to celebrate and all 3 has been absolute shit. No question, don't @ me. Ceballos has been a nonshow for 3 different managers, might as well retire at this point. Valverde, I mean, I still don't see what TMO sees and unless he actually gets more game time, I wouldn't see it. Llorente, however, actually showed his skill level and it's pretty decent. Good for rotational purposes but Zidane hates him, swear he does.
Outlook: Get new midfielders. Nothing complicated about that

Forwards:  Bale, Isco, Asensio, Lucas, Vini, Diaz
Review:  Fucking dog shit in various forms. Except Vini and Diaz to which both have surprised me how they took their chances in their own way.
Outlook: Get new forwards and keep Vini and Diaz. Ez Pz outlook

Centre Forward:  Benzema and Mariano
Review: Benzema had a decent season. I say decent because you can easily see where the bulk of his goals/performances were. Mariano, I don't know, rarely saw him so who knows what he is or isn't.
Outlook: Jovic and another forward would do nicely tbh. Or Jovic and just keep Mariano.

Overview:
Dog fucking shit season, worst one I've experience as a fan.

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Post by Kick on Mon 13 May 2019, 04:55

@Doc wrote:Following Sports format (thanks for the effort btw):

Current keepers:  Conetois, Navas and some scrub.
Review: Conetois is a rubbish fucking keeper that we really should not have signed at all. Navas is an above average keeper who is still a good keeper in his own right that should not be starting for us.
Outlook: We're gonna be starting Conetois as our new no.1 and I hate it so much. Envying Oblak and MaTS so much right now.

Central Defenders:  Ramos, Varane, Nacho and Vallejo
Review: Ramos is a natural dunce of a defender but this season, he become more of a natural dunce. Love it. Varane has moments where he is unplayable and moments where we shouldn't be playing him. Speaking of not playing ever again, Nacho could go to Roma or Napoli now, love the guy and wish him the best. Vallejo, um, Hala could use him for his local team in Sweden. Would be a decent addition for their weekend 11 a side kick around.
Outlook: We already have Militao and we'll see how that goes. I would want a replacement for Nacho, badly. Ramos, I mean, yes but he has a way of being so good at the moments where you really need your CBs to be good. Torn imo. Varane NEEDS to stay.

Fullbacks:  Marcelo, Carvajal, Regi, Odri
Review: Marcelo is done, Idc. He is done and Serie A could use his services. Carvajal is also kinda done and I think this needs to be talked about more. Way more. Regi is not exactly Madrid starter material but he has done better than Marcelo this season. As for Odri, I think there is actual starter material there but I doubt Zidane would use him as he really is hoping Dani recaptures his 16/17 form.
Outlook:Get new FBs as what we have is either done or far from being in ideal form

Midfield:  Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Llorente, Ceballos, Valverde
Review:  Sigh, when 3 of your starters have been absolute shit for an entire season, you know you'll have nothing positive to celebrate and all 3 has been absolute shit. No question, don't @ me. Ceballos has been a nonshow for 3 different managers, might as well retire at this point. Valverde, I mean, I still don't see what TMO sees and unless he actually gets more game time, I wouldn't see it. Llorente, however, actually showed his skill level and it's pretty decent. Good for rotational purposes but Zidane hates him, swear he does.
Outlook: Get new midfielders. Nothing complicated about that

Forwards:  Bale, Isco, Asensio, Lucas, Vini, Diaz
Review:  Fucking dog shit in various forms. Except Vini and Diaz to which both have surprised me how they took their chances in their own way.
Outlook: Get new forwards and keep Vini and Diaz. Ez Pz outlook

Centre Forward:  Benzema and Mariano
Review: Benzema had a decent season. I say decent because you can easily see where the bulk of his goals/performances were. Mariano, I don't know, rarely saw him so who knows what he is or isn't.
Outlook: Jovic and another forward would do nicely tbh. Or Jovic and just keep Mariano.

Overview:
Dog fucking shit season, worst one I've experience as a fan.


So you want an entire new team? That isn't going to happen.

Also you guys are 100% getting Hazard, no need to dance around it.

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Post by Doc on Mon 13 May 2019, 04:58

We do need a new team, that's extremely clear. What I never said is when we should get a new team. Obviously it's gonna be brick by brick or in this case, player addition by player addition. But we do need a fresh group of midfielders and forwards. Maybe, maaaaaybe we could keep the FBs but those 2 positions are extremely vital to change.

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Post by Kick on Mon 13 May 2019, 05:03

If you are to buy a new team worth of players, the lack of cohesion at the start of the season will be telling.

You'd be better off adding 1-2 players in addition to Hazard and Militao. Perhaps Mendy and N'Dombele?

Them, plus improvement in form to key players would be enough to close the gap on Barca.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Mon 13 May 2019, 05:30

@Kick wrote:If you are to buy a new team worth of players, the lack of cohesion at the start of the season will be telling.

You'd be better off adding 1-2 players in addition to Hazard and Militao. Perhaps Mendy and N'Dombele?

Them, plus improvement in form to key players would be enough to close the gap on Barca.


ZZ is going to make wholesale changes which will in the long run benefit us. He is not going to sit on the 300m+ Perez offered him and we can't make 1-2 changes at this point because almost our entire team is over 30, has 0 motivation, and wants to fuck off basically.

Might as well cut out the dead tissue and build a new cohesive unit. It may take time, but you can guarantee ZZ put that as a condition to him coming back: that he will need time to ground all these new players and get rid of the old.

Good segue into my post-season assessment:

Absolute dead weight, pointless, might as well just not shown up this season:
Modric, Mariano, Isco, Asensio, Kroos, Marcelo, Vallejo, Bale

Meh:
Ramos, Varane, Carvajal, Odri, Ceballos, Casemiro, Fede, Courtois, Navas, Nacho

Bright spots:
Benzema, Vinicius, Brahim, Llorente (for part of the season)

I think that is about everyone, if I forgot someone they should probably be in the "Meh" category.

If we just replaced the dead weight category and kept all the "meh" that is still 7-8 signings we desperately need. And honestly I could see it.

Jovic for Bale (obviously won't play wing but go with it), Hazard for Isco, Mendy for Marcelo (or Regui), Ndom for Modric, Eriksen/Pogba for Kroos, RDT for Mariano, Militao for Vallejo. Maybe Asensio gets a reprieve.
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Post by titosantill on Mon 13 May 2019, 05:39

@kick, we fell into the trap of needing a new team by not slowly reshuffling the old. i likened it to a car, everyday you check your breaks; okay if something is wrong you fix it, check the oil guage, check the battery, the lights, the engine and you build on them piece by piece. you don't say my car drove me to three champions leagues (even though you never replaced the engine), and then instead of checking the main parts you decide you are going to purchase new leather cushions for the seats

ofcourse one day you'll be driving to another champions league and then guess what, the whole damn car breaks down at the same time lol. and now the money you thought you were saving, fixing all those parts feels like buying a new car

we hope this serves as a lesson, but it won't , this is madrid, we always like to make things more interesting than they should be. its funny we really could have done the post season assessment after the game against ajax. waiting till now is just formality lol.....but then again as i think bill pointed out that had we reshuffled we might not have won 3 straight. anyway we desperately needed this lesson and dose of reality
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Post by sportsczy on Mon 13 May 2019, 06:09

@kick... as an outsider, you probably think we've been complete shit this season.  You would be right.  But you need to be a Madrid fan to actually understand how utterly disgraceful this season was.

Even during our darkest of years in the 80s, 90s and 00s, we still had really interesting players.  So even though the team was bad overall, you still watched because of those guys.  This year...  nothing.  There wasn't one single good thing about this season or anything worth mentioning.  Vini and Diaz were good...  but both are absolutely not ready to be regulars for Real Madrid despite the hype job.  

Just to keep it in persective... Santillana/Juanito/Stielike (what a player Stielike was) and then Hugo Sanchez/Butragueno.  Zamorano.  Suker.  Redondo.  Raul.  Morientes.
Mijatovic (I liked him lol; leave me alone).  Seedorf. Hagi (he was fun; what a technician).  And then the galacticos.

Awful.  just awful.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon 13 May 2019, 06:19

just for the record i am nowhere near as dramatic as you lots. For as bad as we have been for ONE season, this same team has delivered us 4 champions league in 5 year.

i am genuinely over the moon still with what this team allowed me to live and to experience. One bad season, however bad it is, to close that incredible era does not matter lol.

Yes it's time to move forward and to turn the page, but i will not be one to make it sounds like we are supporting man united over here

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Post by Kick on Mon 13 May 2019, 06:23

@sportsczy wrote:@kick... as an outsider, you probably think we've been complete shit this season.  You would be right.  But you need to be a Madrid fan to actually understand how utterly disgraceful this season was.

Even during our darkest of years in the 80s, 90s and 00s, we still had really interesting players.  So even though the team was bad overall, you still watched because of those guys.  This year...  nothing.  There wasn't one single good thing about this season or anything worth mentioning.  Vini and Diaz were good...  but both are absolutely not ready to be regulars for Real Madrid despite the hype job.  

Just to keep it in persective... Santillana/Juanito/Stielike (what a player Stielike was) and then Hugo Sanchez/Butragueno.  Zamorano.  Suker.  Redondo.  Raul.  Morientes.
Mijatovic (I liked him lol; leave me alone).  Seedorf. Hagi (he was fun; what a technician).  And then the galacticos.

Awful.  just awful.


You're aware that Chelsea had a season even worse than this 3 seasons ago, right? Laughing

Buying a new team because you can is a foolish waste of money and if you're going to spend a season rebuilding, there is no rush to do it. You'd be better off spending smartly on players that are a priority than spending every penny in the bank.

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Post by Valkyrja on Mon 13 May 2019, 06:25

Perez is gone if he keeps 'rebuilding' next season. That's not how rebuilding works down in Madrid Laughing

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Post by Doc on Mon 13 May 2019, 06:38

You know Nick, it is not outside the scope of reality that some of us love and adore the 4 CL in 5 years and the players that won it for us while at the same time looking at this season and thinking "this has been fking horse shit". As it has been fking horse shit, it's honestly the worst season I've experienced and the team is prime for a 2009 esque blow up.

The club would do good in not continuously living in the past as that would certainly lead us to being like Utd. But Kick is right, they need to buy smartly but buy they need to. No two ways about it.

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Post by Perucho21 on Mon 13 May 2019, 08:21

Current keepers: Courtois, Navas and Luca.
Review: Courtois had a bad season. Navas was fine for what he was given to play for. Zidane, i think played 1 game? Doesnt matter though.
Outlook: Courtois will be number one. We had good reason to purchase him. He was the best GK in the WC and had 1 year remaining in his Chelsea which meant he would be cheap. Sadly this was not his year, but i think he will come well. I can think of other GKs like Ter Stegen who started with criticism before becoming great GKs. Time will tell. Navas should stay as back up but he should leave if we wants to start. If he does, we will have Zidane and Lunin as the backups.

Central Defenders: Ramos, Varane, Nacho and Vallejo
Review: One of if not the main reason for woeful defensive performances. Ramos had a season to forget as did Nacho. Varane did not perform to his standards but nothing to bad about him. Vallejo i honestly forgot he existed until recently.
Outlook: Ramos and Varane should remain starters. Militao is being brought in to compete which is great, although i am not convinced yet. Brazilian CBs can be frauds sometimes but lets hope Militao turns well. We would need a 4th choice however because Vallejo should leave unless Nacho stays but i'd give him the boot as well. Hermoso or maybe even Javi Sanchez could step in.

Fullbacks: Marcelo, Carvajal, Regi and Odriozola
Review: Marcelo must have depressed or something after CR7 left because this was not the Marcelo we are used to seeing. Yes he was always poor defensively but his offensive game tanked. Very bad for year him. Carvajal also went from being the best RB in the world to terrible but i would not say as bad Marcelo. The back ups, i believe, are good. Regi has heart and energy that Marcelo severely lacked, but he is not starting material yet. He is young and can be a bit of hot head. I like Odriozola, hes very quick and I saw him try his best to run back to defend. However, it seems that is his only great attribute. Hes not bad in crossing or defending but he should work on it.
Outlook: Let's be real. There is no one available out there that is better AND available to purchase than Marcelo and Carvajal. Only fullbacks i see are Robertson and Arnold and theres no way Liverpool are letting any of them go. Best bet is to keep them and bring them back into form. Mendy seems all but confirmed to join, and he is good prospect. Regi will be loaned and Mendy will give Marcelo and run for his money. RB is fine as it is.

Midfield: Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Valverde, Ceballos, Llorente.
Review: The 3 main starters had a horrible season. Modric had no energy left (he played 7 games in the World Cup, and i believe that was a big reason in regards to his fitness) and was not the man who won the Ballon D'or. Kroos was also very bad and offered no energy whatsoever in the midfield. Casemiro, well everything bad about him, from his lack of techinique and passing took over. The 3 subs, were ok. Not horrible but the opportunities they were given i think they did their best. Ceballos had a lot of hype but Madrid might be too big for him. Valverde inserted much needed energy to the midfield, and Llorente was a great alternative to the underperforming Casemiro. Unfortunately it might not be enough for him to stay.
Outlook: I highly doubt we will sell both Kroos and Modric, but one will leave. Neither Kroos or Modric offer energy and athleticism in the midfield, as someone like Pogba or Ndombele would. One does need to be sold, and right now Pogba, Ndombele, and Eriksen are the ones rumored to be joining. I much prefer someone like Pogba or Ndombele than another CM playmaker like Eriksen. As for the backups.. we're not going to get a better back up than Llorente for Casemiro. Valverde should stay and that just leaves Ceballos. If Ndombele wants to come as a back up to replace Ceballos thats fine.

Forwards: Bale, Isco, Asensio, Lucas, Vini and various kids
Review: Probably the worst performing section of the team with only two bright spots. Bale has overstayed his welcome. He was never going to replace Ronaldo and his injuries happen to frequently. Isco was very bad and no offense was being a big prima donna in the media when he was benched by Solari. I dont see what people see in him. There are far better options on the wing and even AM if we play a formation that includes it. Lucas and Asensio, lol. Vini and Brahim are great prospects and were the only bright spots of the season, but one would certainly need to be loaned out to achieve their potential.
Outlook: Hazard is all but confirmed and that is the signing we certainly need. I am literally drooling on the prospect of seeing Hazard and Benzema playing 1-2s between each other and dancing around opponents. WATTBA. LW is set. Hazard as the starter and you either have Brahim or Vini as a backup while the other loans out. Now that leaves the right. Bale should leave 100 percent, but who takes over? Certainly not Lucas. Asensio.... I can see him working out on the right although right now its not working but playing another position takes time. So this is certainly an area where there is no clear replacement. There are names being thrown around like Pepe and Neres, and they are good prospects but probably not good enough yet for Real. If only Mbappe was available but of course hes not. Rodrygo is coming but likely as backup. I personally would sell Lucas and give Asensio one more shot. If not, I think Zidane goes back to the Diamond in order to accomodate the lack of a RW.

Centre Forward: Benzema and crickets
Review: Benzema had a good season, better than expected. Mariano didnt get enough chances.
Outlook: Benzema will stay 100 percent and it looks like Mariano is moving on as we bring in Jovic. Honestly, i am not convinced with Jovic. Hes having a great season but one good season does not mean he is immediate material to play for Real, but it looks like there are no other options.

Overall: This was a bad season. But lets be real, we have enjoyed a great golden period and no golden generation stays around forever. With great signings we are back in competition. I have full confidence of the board and Zidane to make the right changes and get us back on track.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Mon 13 May 2019, 10:55

Current keepers: Courtois, Navas, Zidane
Review: I have no idea how this club thought it was a good idea to putchase that dinosaur of a keeper in the first place given the fact he doesnt actually fit in with our way of play. Square peg round hole player to which we are now lumbered with for at least 5 seasons. Navas was great in the games he was given. But he's practically got wrinkles and a frail body according to our ageist organisation.

Look at City/Pool they got a keeper that fit their profile. Quick off their lines (check) take risks on the ball (check) command their box (check) BOTH of the keepers this club was obsessing about are like the opposite of what we need, both are rooted to the bloody line when a ball behind our defence is played, both can't command their boxes and both crumble like wet tissue paper under pressure

Courtois accordibg to a report i read had the worst save percentage in the whole freaking league, you realise that includes keepers like that noob at Rayo who keeps leaking goals. It's like a shot=goal this whole season. The goals he conceded my God rofl those mistakes were more mistakes than Navas throughout his entire Madrid career.
Outlook: There's no reason to get a new keeper, throw Courtois i dont care where and keep Navas as the undisputed no1 and get a keeper that actually fits our profile. Luca should gtfo too, he is the Courtois of Castilla

Central Defenders: Ramos, Varane, Nacho and Vallejo
Review: Ramos had a good season considering what he was given as support. Varane Laughing I am convinced even Brahim could bully him about. Got Lope sacked and has been playing like a complete tard ever since. That's a position we desperately need an uppgrade. He is not a leader, look what happened when Ramos wasn't around, we got murdered by freaking Tadi, TADIC. Same happened against Juve last season.

He's rubbish I can't believe you guys can't see that. Is not a goalthreat, in fact his offensive headers are like clearances. He reminds me of Kovacic when he makrs a run, he gets into a really good position and passrs it back to Carvajal Laughing when he makes an defensive header it's always to an opposition player. Playing with Ramos for so long has taught this guy nothing. OUT. Nacho has been atrocious and it all started last season so its not like it's a season thing. OUT. Vallejo could work in LL, he had a bad game v LaReal, otherwise his LL gamrs have been good. Better than Varane imo but we need someone better than both. I am hoping that's Militao
Outlook: Ramos is getting old and the only WC CB on our roaster. We need to uppgrade the rest

Fullbacks: Marcelo, Carvajal and the two spanish kids
Review: Marcelo has been nothing short of horrendous. Continued under THEEE different coaches. He needs to go to Juve so that he can weaken them even more for CL next season. Carvajal has been so-so, but you can't deny his efforr but like Doc said, he's not talked about enough. I like the RB combo, like it should be a WC RB and a very adequate back up. Reguillon was a breath of fresh air along with Vini on that left side but ZZ for some reason cant see it. Sad. I am hoping Mendy can come in and knock Marcelo off his starting spot because i cant bear to see him for another season

Midfield: Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Isco and the kindergarten kids
Review: NONE of these guys had a decent season but at least Kroos has improved drastically under ZZ. Both Kroos and Casemiro you can work with. Modric is just done. He can follow Marcelo to Serie Z and retire a rich man. I can't for the life of me understand why ZZ keeps ostracising Llorente. He was magnificent when he got a chance now he's back to the stands. He must have insulted Enzo back when they were at Castilla for him to be left out this mich.

Ceballos another guy who was a bright spot under Solari too can't be bought a starting place because ZZ has already made his mind up about him. Isco has been atrocious, but he started the season excellent, everything went downhill after his operation, instead of keeping his shape he started stuffing his face with fat and is now this fat, slow, mini-me trump running around

Outlook: We need one starter level purchase. Not Pogba or Eriksen. We need someone more dynamic than both. Is Ndombele that? Bring him in, if not go for someone else. I sm starting to like Valverde, he is that strong dynamic midfielder this midfield needs especially with two slow dorks next to him. Bring in a starter in his mould. Poor Ceballos was dealt a bad hand and now can't even get a look in. Give Isco one more season because form is temporary, class is permanent. If he comes back from pre-season fat. He can get his fat ass out of our club. No excuses to do that

Forwards: Bale, Asensio, Lucas, Vini and various kids
Review: We need a complete revamp. From left to right. it has been admirable to see Vini and Brahim playing this well but they need a guiding hand. Like someone in Hazard's age bracket. I don't understand why Brahim keeps playing on the left, like ZZ's wants them to compete for a place on the team. Play Brahim on the right damn it where we have noone decent. Lucas can stay as a third back up. Bale and Asensio need to go. Seriously just go
Outlook: We're signing Hazard, we need a RW too. Have Vini and Brahim backing them up and be done with the rest

Centre Forward: Benzema and Mariano
Review: Benz was a bright spot in this gigantically failed season but we need two CFs to compete. Cavani and thicc boy and then i can sleep happy


Next season: whoever from our core plays like they did this season should be cut off. I am done with their lack of passion
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Post by Thimmy on Mon 13 May 2019, 13:40

@Mr Nick09 wrote:just for the record i am nowhere near as dramatic as you lots. For as bad as we have been for ONE season, this same team has delivered us 4 champions league in 5 year.

i am genuinely over the moon still with what this team allowed me to live and to experience. One bad season, however bad it is, to close that incredible era does not matter lol.

Yes it's time to move forward and to turn the page, but i will not be one to make it sounds like we are supporting man united over here


At least, no one's going to accuse you of not tooting your own horn hmm Do you realize the irony in this post? Just for the record, you've been on the "Ole out" train since as soon as things turned sour for them. You don't get to claim you're "not as dramatic as you lots". You were the only guy on here who dramatically hyped up the arrival of Courtois, and you've been acting like a friendly neighbourhood advisor for Man United fans, as if you recognize their issues. You've also been hyping up the possible arrival of Pogba, which is never a positive sign for us. "For as bad as they've been for 12 games", you jumped straight on the manager blaming bandwagon and the "from 6th to 6th lol" bandwagon. You must've missed me saying they were bound for outside the top 10 when Mourinho was still at the club, which was a likely prediction based on their form and the amount of remaining games at the time. Then again, I'd be surprised if you've even watched a substantial amount of their matches this year, since your enlightened advices are purely based on a blanket impression of the manager.

I've actually gotten more enjoyment out of watching Man United since Ole's takeover, than I've had while watching our games this season. They have far more fundamental problems than we do, particularly in their incompetent club president, but at least their players delivered a relatively lengthy period of cohesive football, with blistering pace and work ethic that could rival anyone, for a short period of time. It was entertaining while it lasted, and It's a shame that Herrera is on his way out because he's been my favorite player under Ole, and a glimmer of hope in an otherwise irresolute team. Even our "new manager bounce" didn't result in such enjoyable performances. We won a couple of games, but not in a convincing manner (bar a limited number of matches under Lopetegui). I imagine some people think I'm merely being biased towards Ole, due to our common nationality, but it's the manager scapegoating trend I have an issue with. Regardless of his inclusion, Man United are one of few teams I follow consistently. Some managers are unlikeable, some simply have a cancerous presence with their man management, but when a team looks as slow and uninspired as ours and Man United's have, it's pretty safe to say that the problems go beyond the influence of the manager. For all the banter, which can be applied to any and all discussions as a "I didn't really mean that"- card, you're not in a position to claim you're the most level-headed guy on here Rolling Eyes

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon 13 May 2019, 14:26

@doc, I'm saying the same thing as you but the tone here was very dramatic from the get go, and to some extent continues to be. That's all.

@Thimmy, sorry but you are just mixing up a lot of things. It's hard to follow, you say there is irony in my post but fail to point out out clearly.

The reason why I reference united is that they have Beena. Shit show since Fergie left. That's a fanbase that has real reasons to be pissed about something, in opposition to the success we have had in recent times.

We can agree to disagree here, to me it's really just about the tone of the conversation here, I don't think we disagree here about the fact that the season was poor.

Also I'm not hyping up the signing of pogba, if we could sign Kante I would like that way more than signing Pogba and when I posted my fantasy team for next year I made that clear. I just understands it's something Zidane really wants so the sooner we make that happen the easier our summer will go

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Post by Thimmy on Mon 13 May 2019, 15:19

@Mr Nick09 wrote:@doc, I'm saying the same thing as you but the tone here was very dramatic from the get go, and to some extent continues to be. That's all.

@Thimmy, sorry but you are just mixing up a lot of things. It's hard to follow, you say there is irony in my post but fail to point out out clearly.

Where do I start? There's irony in you claiming that you're not as dramatic as the rest of us, considering the drama you're stirring up with your "Ole is shit.. here's what you need to do" posts. You claim we're being dramatic about one season, yet you're riling up Man United fans and suggesting that the manager should be sacked after 12 matches of poor performances after he was only recently announced as their official manager, and started his tenure with a sizeable winning streak that included victories over assumed superior managers. Of course, once they started losing, it was the manager's fault, although I thought it was well established that the players simply aren't good enough. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when they were winning against the likes of Tottenham and Arsenal, most people claimed it to be a result of I guess, "the dormant potential" of the team being motivated by a "new manager bounce". I bet a lot of people won't admit to it, but suddenly the likes of Rashford was hot property again in these discussions. Yet, when they started losing, both the players and the manager are supposedly not good enough. I don't think Pochettino or Emery would be too happy if they had to switch clubs with Ole, but that's just me. I can't make sense of how football fans tend to blame the manager, when there's not a sustained period of poor performances that can be directly traced back to anyone but the players. Even if the manager holds part of the blame, these quickfire manager sackings that we are known for, hardly ever solves anything. When a team performs poorly, it's usually because the team performs poorly. It's not a coincidence that the top rated managers don't manage poor teams.
 

The reason why I reference united is that they have Beena. Shit show since Fergie left. That's a fanbase that has real reasons to be pissed about something, in opposition to the success we have had in recent times.

Well, that's certainly true. I believe it's mostly due to baffling transfer decisions, and the general decision-making of their club president. Like Florentino, he's a businessman first and foremost, but the amount of missteps he's made since he took charge of the club, would make Florentino blush. Abolishing the wage structure, not hiring a sporting director.. it's absolutely baffling. I haven't seen you refer to the post- Fergie era, though. I've only seen you regurgitate that Ole is shit and needs to go.

We can agree to disagree here, to me it's really just about the tone of the conversation here, I don't think we disagree here about the fact that the season was poor.

Also I'm not hyping up the signing of pogba, if we could sign Kante I would like that way more than signing Pogba and when I posted my fantasy team for next year I made that clear. I just understands it's something Zidane really wants so the sooner we make that happen the easier our summer will go

It has been poor. I don't want our rebuild to be contaminated by someone with the lackluster dedication level and egocentrism of Pogba, but like you've stated before, it's out of our hands. If he comes, he comes, but don't expect me to be happy about it. I would expect him to perform far better than he has done over the past 3 years. Firenze's been displaying signs of Stockholm syndrome regarding this guy ffs. As much as Man United look like shit when they don't put in an acceptable level of effort, he's been the lead singer in a band of drudgery, and usually the first player on the team to sink the tempo of their midfield to the level of a group that wants to get bent over, so the prospect of him being an improvement to our current midfield does not fill me with confidence, regardless of how talented he is. The least thing I expect from the players we bring in this summer, is that they can sustain an acceptable level of effort. Kanté would pass that test with flying colors. Pogba should count his lucky stars that he's got a NT midfield partner who's always up to the task, just like he had Vidal at Juventus. We don't have anyone like that, right now. If our summer signings amount to Jovic and Pogba, we'll need some kind of miracle, fairy dust of effort to achieve anything next season. Unless, Jovic has a CR/Messi- like ability to carry.

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Post by Doc on Mon 13 May 2019, 16:13

I try my best not to be dramatic but this is honestly the worst season I've experienced as a Madrid fan. The football has been bad, we had no exciting player for months till Vini/Diaz showed up (and that's based on the fact we had no exciting player for months) and we lost everything in February/March.

Also, where exactly has Ramos been "good" all season? And you really want this club to replace Varane, really?

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon 13 May 2019, 16:16

Brother thimmy you need to relax,

1) i talk about United because I truly think Ole is a terrible appointment in everyway imaginable, and I am having fun making fun of united. They are bad, their fans are going nuts, and it's good to make fun of them. How is that dramatic? No irony here lol

2) on Pogba if I know he is coming I would rather focus on the positives, because I know he is a talented player and it could work out. The guy is not even here, even if we sign him, I want to wish him to be successful because his career has not been mediocre up to now, he is a talented player.

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Post by futbol_bill on Mon 13 May 2019, 16:18

I will agree that this season has been disastrous, one of our worse ever. Although that year we had Gravensen as our star midfielder ranks as the worst!

I won’t bother to format this aka Sports, but I will agree with much of the criticism.

Of the staters, ALL of them  without exception, had poor seasons. Part of this is attributable to coaches, WC negative influence and certainly attitude / motivation.

Some of them, I would give another season to see if their form returns. In this category are Carvajal, Varane, Ramos, Casemiro, Benz.

You are probably surprised I’m lumping Benz in with this crowd as he clearly was our best starter this season. However there was an extended period before December were the same old Benz from past two year was out there. He did turn it around, but after the meaningful games were done. He is clearly the best of a bad lot, but he did not have a great season!

I want to comment a bit about coaches. I feel Lopetequi should have been given more time to try to work out the problems. I doubt if the season would have turned out any worse if he had remained. Solari was an absolute disaster, even worse IMO than Benitez. And as much as we all like Zidane, has he actually had a better record in this last part of season than either Lope or Solari? Lopetequi's main problem was he tried to implement a system that required excessive pressing and this team of aging players wasn’t equip for it.

Of the backups, i feel most of you are a little to hard on them, but it does seem as if I’m the odd man out here as Zidane obviously has same view as most of you.

Navas - has played well, and arguably should have started a lot more. I would keep him for next year, but I suspect he will leave.

Luca Zidane - no opinion, but he is practice GK after all. For those of you mentioning Lunin, he was an absolute bust this season, only played 4 games.

Odriozola - he came as the 2nd best Spanish RB But with defensive weaknesses. He IMO has played ok, not great, but also not bad. I don’t see a problem at RB, other than wanting Carvajal to regain his best form.

Nacho - yes he has regressed, but we need squad players like him (and Lucas) as they are experienced, hard working and willing to play reserve role. Plus they help team meet homegrown obligations. However he moves from 3rd CB to 4th, which means his playing time is reduced.

Vallejo - i really feel sorry for him. He IMO can eventually turn out ok but his injuries and timid essence have severely limited him. He is definitely out, could be a loan or sale with buyback. But best thing for him would be an outright sale.

Reguilon - This guy had a very good season. Was a pleasant surprised. I don’t understand why Zidane is not interested in him. He definitely isn’t starter material, but is more than adequate as a backup, much better than that experienced portuguese we had for years!

Llorente - another guy that has been stunned with injuries. He has been impressive when given opportunity. But Zidane seems to have no use for him and he will undoubtedly be lent out.

Ceballos - it’s too bad Zidane really has something against him as I think he has played well generally with one very poor performance when they played him as a defensive mid. But for sure he is gone.

Valverde - he has made an impression. I don’t rate him any higher than Ceballos as MTO does, but it does look as if he will remain as abackup.

Note - i think Zidane planning to let two kids go and bring starters or rotational players in, suggest that we will play both 2 men midfield as well as 3 men on occasion.

Isco - I’m as confused as everyone on what has happened. He did start out well, but has never recovered from appendix surgery, comeback too soon, and then repeated comments about out of shape and attitude. Zidane may keep him, depending upon who comes in, but it would be best for him to go elsewhere and start a new as best he will do here even with recovered form is rotational role.

Lucas - same old. Good squad player that should never start. He stays if numbers permit, but as a 24th player (25 being practice GK)

Vinicius - one bright spot this season. Agree that he should be a backup next season, easing his way gradually into a starter future role (I hope Rodrygo results in same direction).

Brahim - looking good, but way to early to tell. I suspect it will come down to him or Asensio for next season.

Asensio - another huge disappointment. He seems to have buckled with the pressure. He should go to a less pressure team for his own sake, but I think Zidane will give him another year.

As to outlook for next year, I believe new comers are

Mendy, Hazard, Jovic, either Pogba or Eriksen and possibly Ndombele. Plus Militao and rodrygo.

Outgoing will Vallejo, Reguilion, Llorente, Ceballos, Bale, And depending upon who is signed re midfield, all of Modric, Kroos, Isco are possibilities plus Asensio or Brahim up front.

There is one message from Blue that I think has been ignored. With all these changes (and even more as some suggest), it will take the better part of a year to get the revised team to function cohesively!


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Post by Doc on Mon 13 May 2019, 16:26

Ever since Uncle Ole went to Utd, brother Thimmy has been in a biting mood. I approve of this new behavior imo.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon 13 May 2019, 16:40

Defending shit country man I see.

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Post by sportsczy on Mon 13 May 2019, 17:07

@Bill...  ZZ's lineups weren't design for max win probability.  They were about putting players on trial to see what he had going into next season.

Regarding Benz... even in his best seasons, he's gone missing for a couple of months (granted, so do the other CFs but I digress). Point is, that we were basically relying on him to score all the goals. We need 3 scorers and a proper backup.


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Post by sportsczy on Mon 13 May 2019, 17:10

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Brother thimmy you need to relax,

1) i talk about United because I truly think Ole is a terrible appointment in everyway imaginable, and I am having fun making fun of united. They are bad, their fans are going nuts, and it's good to make fun of them. How is that dramatic? No irony here lol

2) on Pogba if I know he is coming I would rather focus on the positives, because I know he is a talented player and it could work out. The guy is not even here, even if we sign him, I want to wish him to be successful because his career has not been mediocre up to now, he is a talented player.

With Ole saying PUBLICLY that Man U are competing for 4th place in the foreseeable future... i see no way the top class players stay lol.  How can a manager of Man U say that and get away with it!

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Post by Thimmy on Mon 13 May 2019, 17:38

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Brother thimmy you need to relax,



I think you need to realize that, even if people post negative things online, and it makes you perceive the general atmosphere as negative, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're outright physically upset when they're writing it. I know you like to poke fun, and you've mentioned "long paragraphs" as an indication of how supposedly upset or enthused I am, but that's just me taking the time to respond properly.

This season hasn't been fun. I've hardly ever watched Man United willingly, but my closest friends are Man United fans, so I find myself watching most of their matches anyway, and their last 6-7 seasons have been depressing to watch. It was more enjoyable to watch football when at least one out of Real Madrid and United were doing well, since those are the two teams I find myself watching the most consistently from season to season. Man United actually looked good for a while this year, and I believe that's the first time I've seen a good string of convincing performances from them since Ferguson.

Assuming that Ole's responsible for the sudden and drastic shift in form is one thing, but to suggest a complete change in manager as the solution to the problems, seems about as sensible to me, as to suggest that our team will perform better if we change our coach again - It will just add confusion to the existing mess, and quite frankly, doesn't make sense unless there are clear signs that the manager is the source of the issues. We have a talented team. A substantially more talented team than Man United, but the dedication isn't there anymore, and that's one thing we have in common with Man United. If you can't change that, then you obviously have to replace the squad with players who are dedicated.

I honestly don't think we should've fired Lopetegui. I know a lot of you thought he was an ass with ugly shoes, but apart from some questionable substitutes that every single manager seems to make from a fan's perspective, I recognized the performance of the players as the consistent issue. We've now burnt through two managers and returned to the initial one after opportunistic cries for him to return, and the results haven't changed. The recurring tendency for a lot of football fans to blame the manager as soon as a team starts losing, and then throw their hands up in the air when a change of manager doesn't improve their circumstances, is probably the one thing that frustrates me, right now. I wouldn't mind the signing of Pogba as much as fans calling for Zidane to be sacked when Pogba and Jovic don't turn out to be our saviours. I genuinely don't understand why people think the solution is that simple. I'm not upset right now, by the way. Just airing my thoughts with long paragraphs hmm

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