Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:38 pm

25 million was NOT a rip off. i feel its even a bit on the high side for psg. jese could turn out to be a beast for them, but i'm not talking about 'potential' or 'what could possibly happen', i'm talking about his career at madrid so far. and so far, i'd say we sold him for a more than acceptable fee.

he's a bench player, a bench player who doesn't really have a specialized role; some say he's a lw, he produced his best football for us at rw when bale was out, which even got fans asking if he should bench bale, until that unfortunate schalke injury; and some say he should play cf. then you look at the numbers and he isn't exactly lighting that up

25 mill for a bench player, who isn't even the second choice (lucas took up the second choice slot from him) is a damn good deal. what upsets me is, i liked jese's football well enough to wish we could have sent him elsewhere and gotten him on a buy back, rather than selling him outright. with the right one on one coaching, he can develop into something special. he's bold enough to go at players 1 on 1, someone like wenger can get something out of the kid....but it wasn't a rip off.

you think ordinary jese should be going for more than 25 mill? cut it out. i'd say based on his career so far, you sell him for like 10, and its 10mill only because he's still young

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:03 am

I disagree, he was a bench player because we have Ronaldo.

10m? That's gotta be a joke. He is 23, plenty of room to improve. He has had injury setbacks but has started to show bits of his pre-injury Carlo form, which would be more than enough to guarantee more than a 25m valuation.

That is not even considering the inflated market prices where most players under 24 are going for 35-55m +

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:21 am

you think if we didn't have cristiano jese would start? lol. if we didn't have cristiano, the club would sign somebody else, or put bale on the left and sign some big name player to play down the right. you're right, i'm not taking into account the inflated market prices. i'm going based on what i see, and he isn't the finished article to be commanding a 25 million move. you really think we could hold out psg for 35 million for .....jese?

even the inflated prices we hear about are guys who are at least starting for their clubs. the only thing crazier than a 35 mill plus bid for jese would have been a 60 million bid for....morata. even if he didn't have only a year left, i'm not sure psg would be that desperate for that. they'll just waste the money on some other ligue 1 winger.

he's a good player and i really wish we could have settled for a loan move, but 25 million was more than a good deal. ten years ago, madrid would have let him go to somewhere like inter for free, and he hasn't done enough to think we can extort psg for 35 million. even without cristiano and bale, he won't start at madrid...forget it. we'd just sign someone else and have him as their back up. the kid was behind lucas in the hierarchy for crying out loud....what lucas is worth 35 million too?

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:30 am

PSG have spent 63m on Di Maria, 50m on David Luiz, 64m on Cavani, 31m on Marquinhos, 25m on Cabaye, 40m on Lucas, 42m on Pastore..

Yeah I think PSG got away cheap on Jese

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:07 am

some of those players may not be all that, but they were all either experienced or starters. di maria may have been banished by lvg, but he has a resume, we know what he can do. david luiz imo isn't a good defender, never was, but he too has a resume. a lot of the other guys were mostly starters on their teams, teams that wanted to keep them. jese does not have a stark resume, and neither was he a starter or a key cog, and finally he's on a side that wasn't fighting to keep him, but wanted to sell.

even lucas, psg got extorted on that, but that's cause he was probably starting for his former side, and they wanted to keep him. you can't ask for 35 million for someone with little to no resume that you don't even want to keep. they'll just say no, and you'll be stuck with one more grieving player on your bench

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by Doc on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:41 am

Lucas Moura, at the time, was a very bright prospect coming out of Sao Paulo and was very highly rated. PSG got swindled hard but he had major hype behind him. So too did Pastore with respect to Serie A. Got swindled on that one as well. Marquinos, assuming it was the Roma defender, was also another "highly rated" Serie A defender. I think he is still pretty good but I don't know.

Honestly, I think PSG got swindled on the Jese deal as well. Would not have pictured him being bought for 25 mil in his current state at all.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:29 am

25 mil is a bargain for a striker these days.... especially a 23 year old talented one who has yet to see his best days.  PSG stole one here.

Madrid paid 30 mil for Morata and other teams offered 60+ mil.... and Morata has never scored more than 15 goals in a season.  Morata got his chance too. Jese has yet to get regular minutes because he's blocked at Madrid.

I predict stardom for Jese.  He's going to get his chance at PSG.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:28 am

only reason morata caused that much was cos of the clauses involved. juve paid us 20 million for his services if i remember correctly and we had the option to buy him back at 30. if we asked psg for 30-35 million they'd laugh at us and look elsewhere. you have to take into account the fact that we deemed the player surplus to requirements. the only people who are deemed surplus yet still command huge transfer fees are star players, not fourth or fifth choice back ups

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:42 am

That's false according to media tito... PSG didn't even think Jese was available last month when they offered 50 mil for Morata. We said Morata wasn't for sale... but Jese was available. That's how it all started according to French media.

It's also no secret that Chelsea wanted Morata badly as Conte is absolutely in love with him. He's the one who pushed for his move to Juve in the first place.

I don't think you're reading the market for strikers at all. There just aren't any.

I predict he's going to drop 20 goals at PSG this season all comps playing as the left side striker (not central). He has some competition from Ben Arfa... but he can win that. Ben Arfa is too much of an individualist and his work rate is questionable. He's going to get his chance.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:53 am

i'm not saying he won't do well. i see him doing well, though i probably won't watch psg much this season. maybe i might, since they've still got di maria. but yeah i'm not saying he doesn't have the potential to light things up, he definitely does. my point is, even when clubs sign players based on potential, most of those players at young ages are usually playing bigger roles at their previous clubs.

i maintain we could not extort psg for more than what we did for someone who is like fourth choice on the team...isco's not a winger, but on the hierarchy, zidane will probably give both isco and lucas minutes before jese....point is we wanted to sell, stalling deals when you want to sell may just have the player sitting on your bench again throughout the season. i see him doing well, and wish we loaned him out instead

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:09 am

Jese asked to leave at the end of the season... it wasn't really our choice. We initially wanted to buy Morata back and resell him. But when Jese asked to leave, we couldn't. At least that's what the media is saying.

Jese himself said in his post-signing interview that he realized during last season that he needed to leave Real Madrid to fulfill his potential. He had several offers, and some more lucrative even. But he chose PSG because he's at his best playing next to a CF, not being one. All the other teams wanted him to be the CF.

He also mentioned that this is the first time since his injury that he feels he has the burst back in his legs.

We'll see.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:22 pm

Sports, can you just stick to your criticism and stop making up these stories?

facts:
- Jese did not ask to leave at end of season
- Although club wanted to loan him out for a year, Jese was unconvinced until he had that heart to heart talk with Zidane.
- Club decided to bring in Morata after he was selected as the seleccion starter.
- Zidane did say that Morata could see time at all three forward positions and would be chosen ahead of Jese (and thus best advice he (or a friend) could give Jese was to go somewhere where he could play as a starter for a year, develop and then come back)
- Club did not want to lose him, they were actually ready to renew his contract.
- Their preference was a loan but that was not an option with PSG.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:37 pm

That's not what Jese said in an interview to RMC Sport... so who are you going to believe?  The player or the media?

He chose PSG over EPL teams and Serie A teams where Madrid could have had the buyback clause.  That tells me all I need to know in terms of what to believe tbh.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:41 pm

French media, french team, french agenda. ....... Yeah sure it all adds up!

scratch :facepalm:

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:13 pm

If he was really concerned AT ALL about returning to Real Madrid, why would he pick the one team that was located in a league that doesn't allow for buyback clauses?  And to boot, PSG is a club known for blocking player transfers.  They blocked both Silva and Marquinhos moves to Barca.  Juve, Napoli, City, Arsenal and Chelsea were all interested in Jese as well according to various reports.

At this point, it's common sense...   you can live in denial though.

One of the big reasons that was mentioned:  He didn't want Madrid to block him from going to Barca if that opportunity ever presented itself too.  Looking for a clean break from Real Madrid.  You can't block teams contractually in Ligue 1 contracts either, even if it's a Ligue 1 team loaning to a Ligue 1 team. All of this stuff isn't allowed.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by Adit on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:39 pm

He is solid player but I doubt he is ever going to be a starter material at big clubs.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:24 pm

Sports, it was the club that wanted the loan, not Jese.

The club simply said it would be best for him to start, gain minutes, better develop. Jese didn't say he wanted to leave at end of season (which is where your fairytale began). He was determined to stay and fight for spot until that conversation with Zidane. He found that option from a known (to him) Spanish coach at a top level club. Flo and Zidane had no choice in the matter that it was a sale not a loan as they had desired.

So once again we have you spinning a tale and changing it up when you deem necessary to continue whatever the hell your french agenda is!!!

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:13 pm

I read very differently AND from very reputable sources... Jese wanted to go even before the season ended. He just let it be known once the season ended. We quickly switched from looking to do an arbitrage on Morata to wanting to keep him. We were initiating bids and then we stopped very suddenly.

In any case, you're going to believe what you want to and I'm going to believe what I want to.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by chad4401 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:29 am

Jesé look like he wanted to leave during the season, not everybody is excited about riding the bench, the no buy back clause pretty much confirms he is not interested in returning either, PSG is a good fit for him to develop he can definitely start there, he is a very good player, once it comes together easily elite, good luck to him.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:44 pm

@chad4401 wrote:Jesé look like he wanted to leave during the season, not everybody is excited about riding the bench, the no buy back clause pretty much confirms he is not interested in returning either, PSG is a good fit for him to develop he can definitely start there, he is a very good player, once it comes together easily elite, good luck to him.

that's a lie. there is no buy back clause because Ligue 1 does not allow such clause to be added to their players' contract.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by titosantill on Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:51 pm

@nick, i think what he means is jese going to a place where there's no buy back clause means he's not interested in a return. that aside, buy back or not, i think psg was probably the best alternative, i don't know what other clubs were linked to him; but i'll reckon psg was probably the best choice

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by chad4401 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:04 pm

What Tito said if jesé was concerned with game time only, then he would have secured a club/league that allows buy options, he clearly wants a new start.

Some of you guys need to get over the fantasy that every player would die to play for us, those days have long been over, no respectable player is willing to ride the bench for a whole season us or another team.

Unless insane wages.

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by Crimson on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:21 pm

25me for a unproven striker in the last year of his contract is amazing for us.

Let's be honest here we bought Kroos for the same amount lol and Jese isn't even a starter or even an international lmao

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by Crimson on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:22 pm

@titosantill wrote:@nick, i think what he means is jese going to a place where there's no buy back clause means he's not interested in a return. that aside, buy back or not, i think psg was probably the best alternative, i don't know what other clubs were linked to him; but i'll reckon psg was probably the best choice


Buybacks are not allowed to be included under the FFP rules

refrence: article 202

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:51 pm

That didn't stop us from including them for Casemiro, Morata, Carvajal and Odegaard (he's headed to West Ham with a buyback apparently or on loan).  That rule may exist... but it is not at all enforced.  Chelsea has 100 players either on loan or sold with a buyback. Delofeu was sold with a buyback clause to Everton by Barca too.

I think FFP must have been thrown out the window because none of its regulation are discussed or, frankly, enforced.  Seems like it's gone from being mandates to suggestions.


Last edited by sportsczy on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Jesé Rodríguez - The Future

Post by sportsczy on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:54 pm

Could you tell me where that is Crimson? Doesn't seem there is an article 202. Is it FIFA regs or perhaps UEFA?

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwipwcjqzrnOAhWE8RQKHUEjDCAQFgglMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uefa.org%2FMultimediaFiles%2FDownload%2FTech%2Fuefaorg%2FGeneral%2F02%2F26%2F77%2F91%2F2267791_DOWNLOAD.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFUq5j0GdadYMPXozSdTGJ9lZlvJQ&sig2=eMsE590SQ3XrdlYscV1KHQ

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