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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm amazed at all of the criticism in this forum this week, after we have played probably our best game in 5 years. I was wondering what topics would be discussed this season after we have assembled an excellent team that can compete very evenly with Barcelona this year.

I can't believe you can call yourselves Real Madrid fans when you can't enjoy an excellent effort. You seem to ignore the fact that Barcelona is the top team in Spain, Europe and probably the world. They are even talking about this current team being their best ever. We had a good off season in signing players, but if you look at what they have done, they have done better than us. The two goals they got against us, were superb individual efforts by world class players. There is no need to try to put blame on Ramos, Pepe nor Casillas. Give credit were credit is due.

I just don't understand how any true Real fan, isn't enjoying this effort. My advice to all of you jovens is to sit back and enjoy the games. This is going to be a very exciting and successful season. We may not capture all 4 trophies but we should end up with more than one.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:58 pm

though i do agree with your post, this is an internet forum where criticism is going to be the largest topic of discussion.

we did have moments of brilliance that may speak volumes for this coming year, we also had moments of panic and great disorganization which i hope will be solved sooner rather than later in the season.

still preseason though, lots to be excited about in the coming year.
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Post by Guest on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:08 pm

I agree somewhat Bill. I think we had a great performance. But we're all looking for perfection by Madrid lol. The tone of the game was great for us.

My only three areas of concern watching the game were Carvalho being a bit slow, Pepe losing his mind lol and Xabi looking slower (although still very good).

We have Ramos and Varane to replace Carvalho... so not much worries there.

Pepe is what he is. I just hope he's able to control himself.

Xabi is fantastic if he's given a bit of room. Our play allowed him some the other night. I think Sahin's arrival will allow for even more. I know that when three of Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta-Cesc will be in there, he will get crowded all the time. Interesting to see if he can handle it. He has always been slow of foot and, based on preseason and the barca game, he's a bit slower this year.

Of course, forwards need to score on big opportunities.


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Post by H.A. on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:11 pm

Well if everyone takes a step back for a moment this has been one of the most exciting clasicos in a while tbh. We kept launching attack after attack. Winning the match would have been the icing on the cake for me Very Happy

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:27 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I agree somewhat Bill. I think we had a great performance. But we're all looking for perfection by Madrid lol. The tone of the game was great for us.

My only three areas of concern watching the game were Carvalho being a bit slow, Pepe losing his mind lol and Xabi looking slower (although still very good).

We have Ramos and Varane to replace Carvalho... so not much worries there.

Pepe is what he is. I just hope he's able to control himself.

Xabi is fantastic if he's given a bit of room. Our play allowed him some the other night. I think Sahin's arrival will allow for even more. I know that when three of Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta-Cesc will be in there, he will get crowded all the time. Interesting to see if he can handle it. He has always been slow of foot and, based on preseason and the barca game, he's a bit slower this year.

Of course, forwards need to score on big opportunities.



I agree. I can understand someone pointing out weakness that hopefully can be corrected, but this senseless discussions about Ramos, Casillas, Ronaldo etc. is ridiculous IMO.

Your points about Carvalho, Pepe and Alonso are valid points. I agree with all of your comments.

I was wondering with the criticism of the 2nd goal why noone mentioned that Messi was Carvalho's man and he was missing in action. I think Pepe slipped because of trying to cover too much due to the missing Carvalho and of course the shifty Messi moves. I want to see more of Varane and agree they can also cover with Ramos.

I found Pepe was OK until that 2nd goal. It seems when the pressure is on, he has a hard time controlling himself. There is a definite strategy of Mou's to take advantage of the physical strength and size we have against Barca. Mou should confront Pepe to explain not to take unnexcessary borderline red card plays to excert this physical advantage.

And with Alonso, the issue is more how do we compete with the MF of Barcelona. They have 6 world class midfielders now (Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Thiago, Busquets and Mascherano) and plan to play 4 of them. We have to get Sahin in game shape and see if he can help us compete (MF against MF). I afraid we are still a little short, but as I said earlier I liked the way we played against them and if anything we were the better team. We may not beat them in this supercup, but they have shown that we can compete with them this year. And most important of all, Mou has the players believing this, which can be half the battle.
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Post by Babun on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:34 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:

I agree. I can understand someone pointing out weakness that hopefully can be corrected, but this senseless discussions about Ramos, Casillas, Ronaldo etc. is ridiculous IMO.

Your points about Carvalho, Pepe and Alonso are valid points. I agree with all of your comments.

I was wondering with the criticism of the 2nd goal why noone mentioned that Messi was Carvalho's man and he was missing in action. I think Pepe slipped because of trying to cover too much due to the missing Carvalho and of course the shifty Messi moves. I want to see more of Varane and agree they can also cover with Ramos.

I found Pepe was OK until that 2nd goal. It seems when the pressure is on, he has a hard time controlling himself. There is a definite strategy of Mou's to take advantage of the physical strength and size we have against Barca. Mou should confront Pepe to explain not to take unnexcessary borderline red card plays to excert this physical advantage.

And with Alonso, the issue is more how do we compete with the MF of Barcelona. They have 6 world class midfielders now (Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Thiago, Busquets and Mascherano) and plan to play 4 of them. We have to get Sahin in game shape and see if he can help us compete (MF against MF). I afraid we are still a little short, but as I said earlier I liked the way we played against them and if anything we were the better team. We may not beat them in this supercup, but they have shown that we can compete with them this year. And most important of all, Mou has the players believing this, which can be half the battle.
I like your madridista spirit bill Very Happy Play to win and believe you can win, that's the way to beat them Very Happy

I don't think, they'll dare to play 4 mids against us Very Happy As for competing there, we'll have Sahin, Alonso, Khedira, Ozil and Coentrao ( Altintop later...). Four of them will start against them,they have more depth but we're not weak in that area, not at all Very Happy

Some other notice, I want Arbeloa on the right and Ramos in the middle. For me, Ramos isn't aggressive enough at RB. He gives space and time to attackers before he hassles them, Marcelo is already better in that aspect,he hassles his opponent all the time Very Happy Carvalho on the bench, Ramos in= no problem with me Very Happy


Last edited by babun1024 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by The Madrid One on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:49 pm

we have the players to play our own type of game, a direct attacking game.

and they have theirs to play their way, i think at its best its going to be a footballing spectacle and the 2-2 was just a glimpse.

but like babun said you have to play to win and believe you can win, because with doubt comes nothing else but failure, and if we believe we have the tools to play our game against them and win then thats great.

we dont nessecarily have to make it an 11 vs 11 midfield vs midfielder sitauation, we just gotta keep their team quiet and ours aloud.

alonso,khedira,sahin,coentrao,altintop are all options, although we will probably need a nother creative option in there as alonso's wear starts to show.
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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:51 pm

babun1024 wrote: I don't think, they'll dare to play 4 mids against us Very Happy As for competing there, we'll have Sahin, Alonso, Khedira, Ozil and Coentrao ( Altintop later...). Four of them will start against them,they have more depth but we're not weak in that are, not at all Very Happy


After Sunday's game, I agree I don't think they will start 4 MFs against us. That is however their plan to encorporate Cesc into Barca.

What we showed on Sunday was that we can compete with them (as a team) and that we don't have to go to the crazy defensive line-up / tactics that we hgad last year. We managed to take them off of their game (MF possession) and it's our chemistry, attacking football, in their zone defense (or ball recovery) that makes them stay with 4 defense.

However , as Sportsczy has said they fielded their B MF and it will be more difficult against their A MF. Their MF definitely is their strong point and is stronger than ours. I just hope that Sahin can bring our MF up a notch. But again playing like we did, I like our chances this year even in Camp Nou.
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Post by Zealous on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Bill is 100% right here.

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Post by The Madrid One on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:54 pm

its a cycle of tempos and energy as well, we need to find a way to make their midfield useless by absorbing them pushing them back and attacking them.

pulling a barcelona on them like andy gray once said.

but we have to do it maybe not for the whole 90 mins but for a good 70 mins to get the highest chance of winning.

doing it against their best side in the camp nou is well... difficult, but we have to evolutionize as a team and teach them that we can take it to them at the nou camp, they are not afraid of the bernabeu (yet), but they better know that we are not going to lie down.
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Post by Babun on Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:57 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
babun1024 wrote: I don't think, they'll dare to play 4 mids against us Very Happy As for competing there, we'll have Sahin, Alonso, Khedira, Ozil and Coentrao ( Altintop later...). Four of them will start against them,they have more depth but we're not weak in that are, not at all Very Happy


After Sunday's game, I agree I don't think they will start 4 MFs against us. That is however their plan to encorporate Cesc into Barca.

What we showed on Sunday was that we can compete with them (as a team) and that we don't have to go to the crazy defensive line-up / tactics that we hgad last year. We managed to take them off of their game (MF possession) and it's our chemistry, attacking football, in their zone defense (or ball recovery) that makes them stay with 4 defense.

However , as Sportsczy has said they fielded their B MF and it will be more difficult against their A MF. Their MF definitely is their strong point and is stronger than ours. I just hope that Sahin can bring our MF up a notch. But again playing like we did, I like our chances this year even in Camp Nou.
Their A midfield and Camp Nou are a different story of course but we don't need to outdo them in their own game. In case you didn't notice, we create a lot more chances with less possession than them (less touches/time before the shot), the problem are our forwards, they have to convert them.
Midfield domination maybe, but if we manage to get 35%+ possession against their best 11 then we'll be on even grounds in terms of creating chances. The forwards have to score those though! Very Happy

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:14 pm

Read an article in Goal.com today. It says Barca have had most possession for past 184 games. In Sunday's game, it was almost even 52 - 48. We did have more possession in 1st half.

I think with the strategies that are now in play we can expect to be much higher than 35%. I look at it to be more like 45%, even with their A MF. By the way, they are taking about fielding Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta. Busquets looks like he is still out and Macherano is starting at CB in place of Puyol.

I've said before, the way we beat them is to attack and take advantage of their one weakness, Centre Defense!!!!!!
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Post by H.A. on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:22 pm

They will field pique though which will be better than the mascherano and abidal combo. They will definitely miss puyol for good now, I don't think he'll be able recover to his former self. Messi still isn't even near 100% so there attack will be weaker than usual. If they don't get lucky again with the goals then the match looks even imo, no favorites.

I feel Barca are exactly like Spain now, there attack will look meh until they regain full form.

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Post by Babun on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:52 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Read an article in Goal.com today. It says Barca have had most possession for past 184 games. In Sunday's game, it was almost even 52 - 48. We did have more possession in 1st half.

I think with the strategies that are now in play we can expect to be much higher than 35%. I look at it to be more like 45%, even with their A MF. By the way, they are taking about fielding Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta. Busquets looks like he is still out and Macherano is starting at CB in place of Puyol.

I've said before, the way we beat them is to attack and take advantage of their one weakness, Centre Defense!!!!!!
Without Busquets they can't maintain highest percentage of possession. None of the players can really defend in midfield except for Mascherano but he'll be in defence. It looks good for tomorrow Very Happy
Will you be in live chatbox? Very Happy


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Post by shaven on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:07 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:I'm amazed at all of the criticism in this forum this week, after we have played probably our best game in 5 years. I was wondering what topics would be discussed this season after we have assembled an excellent team that can compete very evenly with Barcelona this year.

I can't believe you can call yourselves Real Madrid fans when you can't enjoy an excellent effort. You seem to ignore the fact that Barcelona is the top team in Spain, Europe and probably the world. They are even talking about this current team being their best ever. We had a good off season in signing players, but if you look at what they have done, they have done better than us. The two goals they got against us, were superb individual efforts by world class players. There is no need to try to put blame on Ramos, Pepe nor Casillas. Give credit were credit is due.

I just don't understand how any true Real fan, isn't enjoying this effort. My advice to all of you jovens is to sit back and enjoy the games. This is going to be a very exciting and successful season. We may not capture all 4 trophies but we should end up with more than one.


making a short version of mine... madrid supporters is different from madrid fans Smile

i can say some here is better than mou though Smile




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Post by S32TABLANCA on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:26 pm

I agree with most of what Bill said, this was a very exciting match, very entertaining, but its in our nature to find faults and try and improve on those.
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Post by guest7 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:29 pm

Why should any madrista not critisize? We DRAWED not won. The performance was good, mostly becouse theirs was so bad, and yet we conceded 2, when it our goal tally should have been higher and us winning.

We should be critisizing, in fact we should be upset. Our best performance against Barca in years and yet we still draw. That's quite bad. I don't see why anyone should be happy about the result, we outperformed a half Barca not a full. Had it been full though, it would have been a whole different story.
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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:15 pm

omarish wrote:Why should any madrista not critisize? We DRAWED not won. The performance was good, mostly becouse theirs was so bad, and yet we conceded 2, when it our goal tally should have been higher and us winning.

We should be critisizing, in fact we should be upset. Our best performance against Barca in years and yet we still draw. That's quite bad. I don't see why anyone should be happy about the result, we outperformed a half Barca not a full. Had it been full though, it would have been a whole different story.

Well in my opinion, that's just ridiculous. Their performance was anything but bad. Our performance was excellent and we had them off their game. Their two goals were fabulous individual efforts, nothing wrong with our defense nor goal. Yes they didn't have some of their key players, but their backups are just as good. It was just bad luck that we didn't score more. I would be upset if we didn't have chances, but we had 17 of them versus only 2 for them. This is only pre season - there is a lot more to come (and further improvements). The game should be satisfying to any TRUE madrista as it shows this year we can compete with them.

I can appreciate criticism where it's valid (in this game Di Maria, Carvalho and maybe Pepe's tackles late in game), but most of what I have read is a way off. Certainly I know in Spain, we don't share the views of several in this forum.
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Post by guest7 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:56 pm

A draw in the Bernabeu, and to be honest I've always felt our finishing was off. In Copa Del Rey, we should have scored more, but we didnt there either.. Barcas finishing has been better, but Casillas has always been saving us.

It's not the first time I've felt our finishing is bad, so this game just proved my concerns. Or maybe we just had bad luck, who knows. I wasn't completly happy with the performance (other than dominating the game, I tought the game was frustrating to watch becouse of all these chances getting wasted, and Barca just completly getting all their shots in)

Just sharing why you would not be happy with the game. Atleast it was a good game...
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:03 pm

you have ridiculous expectations dude.

we are playing on par with them, that alone if a huge achievement. They have virtually destroyed anyone they played against in the past two years, including us.

Let's be happy with what is coming our way, and we know that they can do better.

sometimes i wonder what the fans want, we arent yet at the point where, when we play them we are sure to win.

We had a full game, created a ridiculous amount of chances, and we should be happy about that.

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Post by H.A. on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:05 pm

Concentrating on the negatives alone isn't really productive. Look at it this way, its the first time in nearly 6 games we have actually looked like the dominant team.

The super cup isn't really that important of a trophy, sure winning would be sweet but its still not like the CL or La Liga.

As for the finishing do you remember how we annihilated teams after the 4 clasicos? Our finishing was superb. Its still the start of the season so players will need more matches to really reach 100% in terms of fitness and finishing.

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Post by guest7 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:13 pm

Maybe its my expectations, or I just feel that we should win when we dominate and we have 12 chances and they only had 4...

It's hard to not feel letdown when we dominated the game but it never ended with a climax.
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Post by The Madrid One on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:14 pm

omarish wrote:Maybe its my expectations, or I just feel that we should win when we dominate and we have 12 chances and the only had 4...

It's hard to not feel letdown when we dominated the game but it never ended with a climax.
you always want to hold high expectations so your team reaches them and they just keep getting better. you never get comfortable.

those are the signals im getting from you
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:18 pm

omarish wrote:Maybe its my expectations, or I just feel that we should win when we dominate and we have 12 chances and they only had 4...

It's hard to not feel letdown when we dominated the game but it never ended with a climax.

It's ok to have expectations, but we also have to keep them measured. We missed a lot of chances, but it's not a problem in itself, teams have days like that, there is not much you can do about it. Some other day, we could have felt more inspired.

The good side of things is that we created so many chances, that's something that will stick in barcelona's mind, and something guardiola will work on for tomorrow.

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Post by guest7 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:21 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:
omarish wrote:Maybe its my expectations, or I just feel that we should win when we dominate and we have 12 chances and the only had 4...

It's hard to not feel letdown when we dominated the game but it never ended with a climax.
you always want to hold high expectations so your team reaches them and they just keep getting better. you never get comfortable.

those are the signals im getting from you

lmao no I just said that I expect a result as good as the performance, which it wasnt and thats why I was letdown
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