CR7 isn't selfish anymore...

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Post by crazzyblanco on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:42 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Let's think this through a little.

Ronaldo deserves some blame for the way he goes at players and corner himself, sure, that's how we have seen him play all along.

But if he did it so often in the clasico with no adjustment from Mou, then i have to deduce that he is following the plot, which is to attack straight down to wing, and providing the option, cut in or cross.

We have been able to retain more possession that usual, but we also bypassed the midfield quite lot in the build up of our attacks. To bring the ball out of the defense, we were mainly using passes along the touch line, or crossfield passes to the opposite wingers, Ronaldo or Di Maria, which resulted in those solo runs we saw.

Very few times did Pepe or Carvalho used the CM's to bring the ball out. In the very same way, When Ronaldo was running down the wing, important is to note that he was forcing down the whole barca team, the midfield was providing the best form of support, which in turn made it difficult for Ronaldo to back pass.

It's a whole support system which is at fault here. Mourinho's reluctance to play Ozil in a deeper role, closer to the CMs to improve that midfield control, proved hurtful in those periods of play we didnt like. And Alonso and Khedira's lack of technical skills on the ball dont always make them the preferred option to pass to in a crowded area.

So to me it comes down to a team tactic, our lack of control in the mid can be a little hurtful to own our game, there is no doubt ronaldo lost way too many 1v1 but i also blame the tactic.

My belief is that with an heavier midfield, 3 men, players that support the forwards just by making runs forward in the box and creating options for the cross. Instead of committing per default 4 men to attack, we do 3, and having support runs from say, Sahin and Khedira, we have the ability of creating unpredictable set ups in attack.

One other thing i saw people complaining about was the lack of runs. Well, to make runs, you need a player deep in the middle commanding the ball and monitoring things, which is something we arent doing, a drawback from playing Ozil as a CF/SS. 3-man midfield would facilitate that. It's easier for a midfield to retain possession when they have quick passing options they can differ to. A line of 3, plus wingbacks coming up on both sides, the wingers making themselves available, and a CF coming deep, increase significantly those passing options and makes it easy for the CMs to move the ball around. The longer you can hold the ball in the midfield the more dangerous you get, and runs can be made. It's the whole point of having midfield control, you suck pressure in, and the midfield can make the right passes in spaces to forwards making runs.

And last but not least, the defending aspect of a 3-man midfield would make our high tempo, high pressure style even deadlier. THe way we would occupy space, with support from corner players in both attack and defense, will create easy double teams, without breaking formation and pulling a defender way out of position without someone covering him.

I truly hope mourinho put it in motion with Sahin coming back, it's the most important step forward we can make imo. We have figure out the style we need to have defensively, now we need to match it with the formation. Our strength will come from the fact that we have midfielders that can attack, press and defend both, while we had quality, intelligence and passing from the midfield area.

we've done this against barca only. cr7 has admittedly not been at his best against barca but then who's played well against them in the past 3-4 years?? seeing how the past two games went we're almost there...just need sahin(still praying for kaka to come good!!) to click and we'll pretty much dominate them like we do other teams...

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Post by the xcx on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:43 am

@crazzyblanco wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Let's think this through a little.

Ronaldo deserves some blame for the way he goes at players and corner himself, sure, that's how we have seen him play all along.

But if he did it so often in the clasico with no adjustment from Mou, then i have to deduce that he is following the plot, which is to attack straight down to wing, and providing the option, cut in or cross.

We have been able to retain more possession that usual, but we also bypassed the midfield quite lot in the build up of our attacks. To bring the ball out of the defense, we were mainly using passes along the touch line, or crossfield passes to the opposite wingers, Ronaldo or Di Maria, which resulted in those solo runs we saw.

Very few times did Pepe or Carvalho used the CM's to bring the ball out. In the very same way, When Ronaldo was running down the wing, important is to note that he was forcing down the whole barca team, the midfield was providing the best form of support, which in turn made it difficult for Ronaldo to back pass.

It's a whole support system which is at fault here. Mourinho's reluctance to play Ozil in a deeper role, closer to the CMs to improve that midfield control, proved hurtful in those periods of play we didnt like. And Alonso and Khedira's lack of technical skills on the ball dont always make them the preferred option to pass to in a crowded area.

So to me it comes down to a team tactic, our lack of control in the mid can be a little hurtful to own our game, there is no doubt ronaldo lost way too many 1v1 but i also blame the tactic.

My belief is that with an heavier midfield, 3 men, players that support the forwards just by making runs forward in the box and creating options for the cross. Instead of committing per default 4 men to attack, we do 3, and having support runs from say, Sahin and Khedira, we have the ability of creating unpredictable set ups in attack.

One other thing i saw people complaining about was the lack of runs. Well, to make runs, you need a player deep in the middle commanding the ball and monitoring things, which is something we arent doing, a drawback from playing Ozil as a CF/SS. 3-man midfield would facilitate that. It's easier for a midfield to retain possession when they have quick passing options they can differ to. A line of 3, plus wingbacks coming up on both sides, the wingers making themselves available, and a CF coming deep, increase significantly those passing options and makes it easy for the CMs to move the ball around. The longer you can hold the ball in the midfield the more dangerous you get, and runs can be made. It's the whole point of having midfield control, you suck pressure in, and the midfield can make the right passes in spaces to forwards making runs.

And last but not least, the defending aspect of a 3-man midfield would make our high tempo, high pressure style even deadlier. THe way we would occupy space, with support from corner players in both attack and defense, will create easy double teams, without breaking formation and pulling a defender way out of position without someone covering him.

I truly hope mourinho put it in motion with Sahin coming back, it's the most important step forward we can make imo. We have figure out the style we need to have defensively, now we need to match it with the formation. Our strength will come from the fact that we have midfielders that can attack, press and defend both, while we had quality, intelligence and passing from the midfield area.

we've done this against barca only. cr7 has admittedly not been at his best against barca but then who's played well against them in the past 3-4 years?? seeing how the past two games went we're almost there...just need sahin(still praying for kaka to come good!!) to click and we'll pretty much dominate them like we do other teams...
welcome to the forum buddy. Very Happy
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:44 am

where is Sahin going to play? ideally in a 3-man midfield.

kaka is finished so we can stop hoping for that.

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Post by crazzyblanco on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:52 am

@The xcx wrote:
@crazzyblanco wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Let's think this through a little.

Ronaldo deserves some blame for the way he goes at players and corner himself, sure, that's how we have seen him play all along.

But if he did it so often in the clasico with no adjustment from Mou, then i have to deduce that he is following the plot, which is to attack straight down to wing, and providing the option, cut in or cross.

We have been able to retain more possession that usual, but we also bypassed the midfield quite lot in the build up of our attacks. To bring the ball out of the defense, we were mainly using passes along the touch line, or crossfield passes to the opposite wingers, Ronaldo or Di Maria, which resulted in those solo runs we saw.

Very few times did Pepe or Carvalho used the CM's to bring the ball out. In the very same way, When Ronaldo was running down the wing, important is to note that he was forcing down the whole barca team, the midfield was providing the best form of support, which in turn made it difficult for Ronaldo to back pass.

It's a whole support system which is at fault here. Mourinho's reluctance to play Ozil in a deeper role, closer to the CMs to improve that midfield control, proved hurtful in those periods of play we didnt like. And Alonso and Khedira's lack of technical skills on the ball dont always make them the preferred option to pass to in a crowded area.

So to me it comes down to a team tactic, our lack of control in the mid can be a little hurtful to own our game, there is no doubt ronaldo lost way too many 1v1 but i also blame the tactic.

My belief is that with an heavier midfield, 3 men, players that support the forwards just by making runs forward in the box and creating options for the cross. Instead of committing per default 4 men to attack, we do 3, and having support runs from say, Sahin and Khedira, we have the ability of creating unpredictable set ups in attack.

One other thing i saw people complaining about was the lack of runs. Well, to make runs, you need a player deep in the middle commanding the ball and monitoring things, which is something we arent doing, a drawback from playing Ozil as a CF/SS. 3-man midfield would facilitate that. It's easier for a midfield to retain possession when they have quick passing options they can differ to. A line of 3, plus wingbacks coming up on both sides, the wingers making themselves available, and a CF coming deep, increase significantly those passing options and makes it easy for the CMs to move the ball around. The longer you can hold the ball in the midfield the more dangerous you get, and runs can be made. It's the whole point of having midfield control, you suck pressure in, and the midfield can make the right passes in spaces to forwards making runs.

And last but not least, the defending aspect of a 3-man midfield would make our high tempo, high pressure style even deadlier. THe way we would occupy space, with support from corner players in both attack and defense, will create easy double teams, without breaking formation and pulling a defender way out of position without someone covering him.

I truly hope mourinho put it in motion with Sahin coming back, it's the most important step forward we can make imo. We have figure out the style we need to have defensively, now we need to match it with the formation. Our strength will come from the fact that we have midfielders that can attack, press and defend both, while we had quality, intelligence and passing from the midfield area.

we've done this against barca only. cr7 has admittedly not been at his best against barca but then who's played well against them in the past 3-4 years?? seeing how the past two games went we're almost there...just need sahin(still praying for kaka to come good!!) to click and we'll pretty much dominate them like we do other teams...
welcome to the forum buddy. Very Happy

thanks mate Laughing
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Post by huntsman on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:56 am

Kaka is only finished in the minds of the weakest.
If we can't turn something which appears like a lost case to the inexperienced eye, such as the case if Kaka to our advantage, then we are not destined to be a great club. Maybe great in the eyes of non ambitious fans and management.
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Post by crazzyblanco on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:58 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:where is Sahin going to play? ideally in a 3-man midfield.

kaka is finished so we can stop hoping for that.

i was one of kaka's staunchest defenders...but after the pre-season and the fact that we had to let go of freking canales and SARABIA for him....makes me want to shoot the man...he has an obligation to come good this season...
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Post by crazzyblanco on Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:02 am

@huntsman wrote:Kaka is only finished in the minds of the weakest.
If we can't turn something which appears like a lost case to the inexperienced eye, such as the case if Kaka to our advantage, then we are not destined to be a great club. Maybe great in the eyes of non ambitious fans and management.

we already are a great club
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Post by Guest on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:02 am

Look guys... CR7 is clearly the second best player in the world. By miles actually. So it's ludicrous to say we'd be better off without him. Not only is he a great paler, he brings energy and competitiveness on the field... If you mess up on the field with him there, you'll know about it.

The problem he's having with Barca is that he's trying to play too quickly as opposed to letting the game flow as he usually does. He gets the ball and just wants to go at them.

My feeling is that all we need is one win where CR7 has a great performance to get rid of the field anxiety he's exhibiting.

I personally think he scores 50 goals eve year if he'd just switch to cf.

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Post by huntsman on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:21 am

We will not be the greatest club if we don't know how to mitigate issues like the Kaka's case.
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Post by Omniscient on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:58 am

Every Madrid fan seemingly wants to match Barca's midfield man-for-man, but perhaps that's not the best solution. Even with Sahin, Madrid just don't have anything close to Xavi/Iniesta.

What Mourinho's doing is smart in a way, completely bypass the midfield by spraying long balls down the wing, creating a 50/50 chance. Even if they lose posession, Madrid usually don't allow Barcelona to retain the ball and settle into a steady passing rhythm because they've become a very adept team at pressing high.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:17 pm

@Omniscient wrote:Every Madrid fan seemingly wants to match Barca's midfield man-for-man, but perhaps that's not the best solution. Even with Sahin, Madrid just don't have anything close to Xavi/Iniesta.

What Mourinho's doing is smart in a way, completely bypass the midfield by spraying long balls down the wing, creating a 50/50 chance. Even if they lose posession, Madrid usually don't allow Barcelona to retain the ball and settle into a steady passing rhythm because they've become a very adept team at pressing high.

i think you are missing the plot. the idea is never to try to match them, you cant. You cant find similar players out there, and bringing everything down to a player for player comparison is pointless. you beat barcelona with style, not necessarily talent. I certainly dont want it to turn into sahin vs xavi, khedira vs biscuit etc... pointless. As long as we are the skills we need in the midfield, then we are fine. If going on the market to add one more body is something we need, then we should go for it imo.

I like the style we are playing at the moment, and even with a 433 we can keep it, not at issue. Flooding the midfield with one more body is not only going to help the defense, but the attack as well. we have been defending Messi by sending Carvalho forward, one more mid covering can only help us and stop the midfield runs from either Iniesta or Xavi.


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Post by Babun on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:08 pm


@5.24 , the moment that drove me crazy Very Happy Thx to TMO for the hard work Very Happy The length of the video shows also that he was ball hogging at least for 10 minutes out of 90 alone with no results to show. We need someone better on the wing, move him to CF and forget everything about his winger existence Very Happy



TMO also made a video about Benz Very Happy Check it out Very Happy
He was our second ball hogger with 10 minutes of action but he beat his man more often and had end product to show for (assist and a goal). The horrible miss is included Very Happy

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Post by Zees on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:15 pm

babun1024 wrote:
@5.24 , the moment that drove me crazy Very Happy Thx to TMO for the hard work Very Happy The length of the video shows also that he was ball hogging at least for 10 minutes out of 90 alone with no results to show. We need someone better on the wing, move him to CF and forget everything about his winger existence Very Happy
what was wrong with that? replays and passes etc had alot of mins too

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Post by H.A. on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:53 pm

Nick I think that's the exact plan we need, a 4-3-3.

If we play benz, ozil and ronaldo they could all interchange positions pretty easily and 2 can go deeper to the midfield when needed. It also means we won't only depend on the wings for attack but we can also attack centrally if we want pretty easily.

When Sahin returns I hope he proves to mou he's great defensively defensively, he could also join the attack when needed.

The game against galatasaray is in 5 days, hopefully Sahin will be back training before then so we can finally see him play Very Happy

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Post by Le Samourai on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:10 pm

It's really drastic to say that the main catalyst behind our current sucess is a cancer to the team.However I do agree on some points.

Firstly CR is in my opinion no longer a world class dribbler, and since he is not a world class crosser he should not be hugging the touchline as he does when he plays against BARCA. CR however has all the attributes to be by far the best striker in the world. but him being a striker will limit the space in which he has to run.Therefore we have to make a choice,

Have his runs become so ineffective in open play that him winning corners is no longer enough. I think that they have. My solution is for him and benz to switch places , so that benz can create space for ronaldo to run into, ideally closer and more directly at goal rather than on the wings.

I think the final messi goal in the last match sums up my entire point , I can remember another carbon copy of this goal being scored against us in the ucl bernebau first leg. Ideally these are the types of positions CR should take instead of hugging the wings, positions where he can use his quicknes and agility to find the ball , as messi so often does. Finally , his speed I think will give us a huge advantage , especially condsidering the number of killer passer we have now incorporatred into our midfield(sahin, alonso,ozil).

Another understated advantage to this , is how lackluster benz becomes when he is alienated and forced to chase the ball acorss the field. I think that placing him in a channel , where he has a particular aim and is not forced to cover the entire width of the field from side to side will keep him more focused and involved.

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Post by I-no on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:53 pm

lol, he isnt a cancer! I have got nothing against him or benzema, ok maybe little bit against benzema, hehe, but they should be more cool when they shoot. barsa are fc hollywood no need to be afraid, dont they have enough anger already?? if yes, then score more,lol. otherwise I was content, somewhat.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:02 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Look guys... CR7 is clearly the second best player in the world. By miles actually. So it's ludicrous to say we'd be better off without him. Not only is he a great paler, he brings energy and competitiveness on the field... If you mess up on the field with him there, you'll know about it.

The problem he's having with Barca is that he's trying to play too quickly as opposed to letting the game flow as he usually does. He gets the ball and just wants to go at them.

My feeling is that all we need is one win where CR7 has a great performance to get rid of the field anxiety he's exhibiting.

I personally think he scores 50 goals eve year if he'd just switch to cf.

I really liked the line-up proposed in one of the other threads
CR7
Benzema Ozil Neymar

Until Neymar arrives, go with Di maria, Callejon or kaka (if he can ever contribute).

However I also agree with Nick that we need a 4-3-3 line-up so maybe something like

Benzema CR7 Neymar
Alonso (Sahin or Ozil) Khedira
Until Neymar arrives, go with Ozil, Di maria or Callejon
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Post by huntsman on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:06 pm

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Post by JuvenelCuore on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:13 pm

I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.

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Post by the xcx on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:17 pm

@JuvenelCuore wrote:I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.
lol, he has saved our asses many times btw.
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Post by JuvenelCuore on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:19 pm

@The xcx wrote:
@JuvenelCuore wrote:I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.
lol, he has saved our asses many times btw.

Granted, but I mean I would take Ozil over Ronaldo any day of the week. Younger, in my opinion more talented, modest, and reserved. Not to mention Ronaldo could be sold to a club for an insane amount of money which could be pumped back into the club to strengthen any area which appears to be weak, though admittedly there are no areas, if any, which really need tweaking.

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Post by I-no on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:19 pm

@JuvenelCuore wrote:I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.
why is ur signature many times bigger than ur post? attention seeker? he is not a cancer, he scores goals, a lot of them............

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Post by Jack Daniels on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:26 pm

Well if you consider that goals are tumors. Then yes, CR7 is a cancer. Smile
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Post by JuvenelCuore on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:28 pm

@I-no wrote:
@JuvenelCuore wrote:I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.
why is ur signature many times bigger than ur post? attention seeker? he is not a cancer, he scores goals, a lot of them............

You know what they say about big signatures. Wink

@I-No x Jack: goals means he is not a cancer ? Cassano is immensley talented but before when he was a rebellious immature child, he was a cancer. No matter how good a player is, if their attitude is such that they bring the performance of the team down, they are a cancer.

Remember folks, no player is bigger than the club.

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"It will feel like another debut. Firstly I hope that it goes well and that I have the chance to score a goal. Perhaps from a rebound off my operated knee." Fabio "ETA BETA" Quagliarella.
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CR7 isn't selfish anymore... - Page 4 Empty Re: CR7 isn't selfish anymore...

Post by the xcx on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:29 pm

@JuvenelCuore wrote:
@The xcx wrote:
@JuvenelCuore wrote:I really do believe CR7 is a cancer to any team. It is no surprise that when Cristiano left MU, Rooney stepped up and Nani came out from the shadows and exploded into one of the best wingers in the world.

Not to mention his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Worst was when he stomped on the captain's armband with Portugal after Nani took his goal, and it was judged offside.

You never do that to your country, ever.
lol, he has saved our asses many times btw.

Granted, but I mean I would take Ozil over Ronaldo any day of the week. Younger, in my opinion more talented, modest, and reserved. Not to mention Ronaldo could be sold to a club for an insane amount of money which could be pumped back into the club to strengthen any area which appears to be weak, though admittedly there are no areas, if any, which really need tweaking.
lol, your being ridiculous. Age between Özil and CR7 isint much.Cr7s work effort covers that, besides 4 years really is not really an big factor. About talent then, Özil to shine means good linking up with forwards and deep gameplay, but with juve squad, its not happening. CR7 on the otherhand do not require service to shine, he can reliable with hes own talent, but if he uses both of those things, hes a total goal scoring beast. Being modest really dosent win you games, now do they? CR7 dosent depend soldly on a system, any manager would pick CR7 instead of Messi for example Very Happy


Last edited by The xcx on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Jack Daniels on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:29 pm

I wasn't being serious.

Everybody knows that i hate CR7 to the bones. lmao
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