I don't understand why Marcelo has to take the shit

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Post by guest7 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:33 pm

I still believe Xavis was worse (in terms of injury-risk and how much it hurt).

Plus the irony, I remember Puyol scissoring Cesc leg one time, breaking Cesc legs. Laughing

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Post by I-no on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:56 pm

I didnt like the fight at all. the game was high class why fight? some of the friends who came late thought we played playstation on the projector. the game quality must have been very fine.........

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Post by C.Marchisio #8 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:41 pm

Xavi tackle was unintentional while Marcelo's tackle was..:S

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Post by Doc on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:47 am

Xavi's tackle was very intentional. He knew what he was doing. Doesn't hold a candle to what Marcelo did. Don't quite understand why it being used as some argument...

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Post by Jack Daniels on Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:37 am

Marcelo's tackle was very intentional imo. We cannot defend him there.
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Post by I-no on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:24 am

@Jack Daniels wrote:Marcelo's tackle was very intentional imo. We cannot defend him there.
he is the most down to earth,fun, chilla,knowledgable real madrid fan. if he says marcelo was too much, you have to agree with him bounce

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Post by hecticfootballer on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:48 am

does anybody have a link to xavis tackle? i want to see it. how does a midget like him make a dangerous challenge.

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Post by Albiceleste on Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:30 am

Sorry but no Xavi's tackle was not worse, it was just a late challenge and it was not two footed as some may believe. I'm looking at it right now.

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Post by Zealous on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:51 pm

Xavi's tackle was bad but that doesn't mean Marcelo didn't deserve a red. He completely deserved it.

Did Fabregas milk it? Yes. Red? Yes.

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Post by buddytaller on Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:33 pm

All the fouls in the Super CUp second leg.


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Post by Zealous on Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:42 pm

Here is a great write up by Unamadridista on her blog:

Well Wednesday was a special game, so I’m going to do something different with the ICYMI post. I’ve divided it into two parts, the bad (this one) and the good. You can consider them the “hopefully, you did miss it” and the “in case you missed it” posts.

With that said, on Wednesday night, there were ugly things from both teams. Both are at fault, and neither one is blameless. Here are some of the things I didn’t like:

the melee - I didn’t like the hard tackle by Marcelo on Cesc that led to the fight, but the attitudes shown by both teams after were deplorable as well. I wrote both teams, because no matter how hard everyone tries to blame Madrid, Barcelona’s players and coaching staff were also involved and they also punched, strangled, shoved… For example, Keita shoved Pepe when the latter was trying to separate others and see how Cesc, who was still on the ground and in danger of being trampled, was. And these fights are almost becoming a cliché in the clásicos, no? With all the problems in this world, in the end, this is just a game played by grown men. Grown men who should know better.

Özil vs. Villa – both players ended up having to be separated, as Villa shoved Mesut when his back was turned, Valdés then hit Mesut in the face, followed by Villa punching him in the face as well. When trying to separate Özil, Barça’s field delegate Carles Naval accidentally swept his hand across Mesut’s face. The referee did not mention Villa punching Mesut in his post-game report, as he didn’t see it. He explained that both players were red carded for “leaving the bench, entering the field, going up to a rival player, grabbing his shirt several times while confronting him.” What made Mesut Özil, who is known for being a mild, calm person get so upset? Sources from Madrid consulted by AS confirm what Özil said later on that Villa had insulted him (there are rumors that Villa insulted his religion). It took three people – Marcelo (who had already started walking off the field after getting red carded), Khedira and one of the staff members – to pull Özil off the field. That’s how worked up he was, so we know it can’t be anything trivial. And before anyone says that this can’t be true because Mesut can’t speak/understand Spanish, well apparently Mesut also managed to shout some insults in Spanish as he was leaving the field. That’s awful as well, and I condemn that. (It just once again shows that the bad things are always the first things you learn in a new language.)

Pinto - does he do anything besides run off the bench to get involved in fights (and whistle)? Oh yes, he allowed a goal in the Copa del Rey final that gave the Cup to Madrid. He’s contributed so much to the club’s image.

José Mourinho’s hands - as everyone knows, at one point during the melee, Mou strolled up to Tito Vilanova, Barcelona’s assistant coach, and poked him in the eye. Vilanova responded by slapping Mou across the side of his head. José Morais then tried to get at Vilanova. In his press conference after the game, Mou stated that he did not know who Vilanova was. Now the former action in and of itself is unforgivable. It gives Madrid a bad image. And given what a control freak Mou is, I’m sure he knows perfectly well who Vilanova is. There really was no need to slight him later on, and that only succeeded in making him look petty. With that said, video images showed that when the fight was about to start, Vilanova made a beeline for Mou. I’m sure he didn’t have good intentions. But that still doesn’t excuse what Mou did.

Mourinho also made a gesture that could be interpreted as something smelling bad when Messi and Alves were near him. That was after Messi spit on the sideline about a meter away from Mou’s shoes, and after Alves shoved Marcelo in the face while trying to separate him from Messi. I’m not saying that the gesture was in good taste, but it certainly wasn’t unprovoked.

other provocations: according to sources in Madrid consulted by AS, Pep Guardiola went up to Madrid’s bench after one of the goals and shouted, “you’re a *bleep* gang” three times. Messi also made some not so polite gestures, such as indicating that it was time for Madrid to shut up. Vilanova also directed various insults at Madrid, using his mouth and his hands. Xabi Alonso said he had seen “disagreeable attitudes and things” from the Barcelona players. We all know that this man wouldn’t make things up.

According to Marca, in the line-up list Barça handed out to the press before the game, they wrote Real Madrid as “Reial Madrid,” or the club’s name as it would be in Catalan. That’s the same as calling it Huang Ma (learned from the recent China trip) in this report and is just another insult. Madrid said they have never referred to the Camp Nou as “Campo Nuevo,” for example, because they have respect for these types of things.

the racist noises: the stadium made monkey noises at Marcelo starting after he fouled Messi and continuing after he was expelled for his tackle on Cesc. As Barcelona VP Josep María Bartomeu said earlier this year, “they are things that happen all the time in football.” So, I guess we should just forget it and move on. Never mind that his own players have suffered the same types of abuses. Plus, the lasers. That’s really getting old. I would have expected more originality from the Camp Nou.

Barcelona’s theatrics – this shouldn’t surprise anyone, and Iker complained about it after the game, saying that Marcelo’s expulsion was due to “the tackle they made, the rival player fell to the ground, as always.” Provocative words for sure, but there were several incidents during the game. In the action that saw Pepe end up with a yellow card – and it deserved one – Messi went down clutching his face, even though Pepe hadn’t touched his face. A few seconds later, he was roughly wiping his face with his shirt, which he wouldn’t have done had his face really been hurting. After tangling with Pepe, Piqué also fell to the ground in the same position several minutes later. This time there was contact, but knowing how easily Piqué bleeds, I’m sure that if it was a real hard foul, he would have bled (that last sentence was sarcasm, Barcelona fans, before you jump at my throat).

the ball boys: they did try delaying tactics by not giving Madrid the ball or sending two onto the field. When the latter happened, Özil kicked it into the crowd. That was bad; he also shouldn’t stoop to Messi’s level. Alves’ and Valdés’ tactics of running around with the ball instead of kicking it/throwing it in to waste time were not examples of sportsmanlike behavior either.

The attitudes of some of Barcelona’s players were also deplorable. I’m sorry, but they aren’t the paradigm of moral behavior and the holders of the absolute truth as they and some of their fans would like to believe. At times they do make sense, but there are other times when they just sound like sore losers/winners. And before these people start criticizing me, I am by no means saying that Madrid is, plus I don’t always agree with the things coming out of the Madrid camp.

The statement: Mourinho is destroying Spanish football. People talk a lot about the Catalanes, but the problem is in Madrid (Gerard Piqué). The response: last I checked, Mourinho’s team was playing fairly good football, very entertaining, and a vast improvement over last year. Besides, I don’t think one person is capable of singlehandedly destroying an entire style/game/league in the time of less than one year. If you want to talk about destroying Spanish football’s image, take a look at those clubs who don’t pay their players, part of the reason why there won’t be football this weekend.

But if what Piqué means by Spanish football is Barcelona’s football (which is definitely how Xavi would interpret it), then he might have a point, because in these two games, Madrid showed it is a challenger to Barcelona. Plus, if he’s tired of everyone always politicizing football by bringing in the Catalan factor, as he and others have stated many times before, why bring politics into this argument? It appears that he wants to fan the flames of this politicized anti-Madrid sentiment. If he’s tired of others doing it to him, then he shouldn’t do it to others. It’s also Barcelona’s fall-back argument for everything and it’s getting old.

The statement: for me, the image speaks for itself and it’s pathetic. It’s a shame. Madrid’s image is lamentable and does not fit with that of the institution (Xavi). The response: while I do agree that certain people didn’t present their best image on Wednesday and other times, in general there are many scenes out of the club that make me proud, that show that’s it’s not “pathetic” or “lamentable.” For example, Xabi and Iker trying to stop the fight, instead of adding to it, or Kaká refusing to join in at all. Or, the response to the Lorca earthquake. While Barcelona was busy celebrating their Liga title and only showing their support via a misspelled banner, Madrid was in Lorca, speaking to the people, bringing them hope and raising money for reconstruction.

The statement: Marcelo came out to hurt Cesc. And you can say the same about Pepe. There are some Real Madrid players that only make brutal tackles (Xavi). The response: yes, I’m sure Marcelo had it in for Cesc, that he had been planning this entire thing for months, considering that Cesc has been a Barça player for about four days and that he came in as a substitute with less than 10 minutes left. Marcelo and Pepe do what they believe opportune for the moment, bad or good, but to suggest they have it in for certain players seems to be a bit delusional.

The statement: we stayed on the field when they raised up the Copa del Rey in Valencia. They should have stayed for our celebration (again, Xavi). The response: the RFEF has come out and said that Madrid’s presence on the field was not required, as there’s no protocol that obliges them to stay on the field, and so no one told Madrid they had to stay. The case was different in the Copa Del Rey, because the runner-up had to go get their medals, so they had to stay, and was duly informed. In addition, the stadium’s own security forces had advised Madrid’s team to get off the field right after the final whistle blew. Dr. Serratosa tried to go over to congratulate his counterparts in Barcelona, but was told he had to go to the locker room. Plus, maybe Madrid was just following Barcelona’s example, as back in 1988 when Madrid won the Supercopa at the Camp Nou, Barcelona didn’t stay on the field to watch Madrid lift up the trophy.

Iker, Xabi and Sergio did end up congratulating Barcelona via the press, later on, but some people are disappointed that they did not shake the hands of the Barcelona players or congratulate them personally. Perhaps they should, but given the situation, the best and safest thing for everyone was for Madrid to get off the field and for Barcelona to celebrate. And let me remind you that after the Copa del Rey final, Álvaro Arbeloa extended his hand to Xavi, who ignored it. And in the other post, there’s a gif of Xavi ignoring Raúl Albiol. Again, it’s a two-way street. It’s not only the Madrid players being “unsportsmanlike.”

The statement: [a possible solution to this mess] depends only on them (still Xavi). The response: funny, that fight looked just a bit two-sided to me. There’s not only one team at fault, Xavi. Barcelona’s players and coaches haven’t been angels (again, neither has Madrid), from their provocations, their words, their gestures, their theatrics (I can give concrete examples for each one if anyone is interested). This mess can only be resolved by both teams. Both.

The statement: we believe in justice and justice was served today (Xavi). The response: I guess Xavi updated his “football has triumphed” statement for the new season. And who knew he was such a comedian? Yes, Barcelona did convert on the chances they had, but the teams could be seen as equally matched, so who’s to say who the just winner is, if we look only at football?

The statement: we’re not in our best physical moment, yet we still beat Madrid, who had dedicated themselves to preparing for this Supercopa (last one from Xavi, I promise!). The response: I knew that if Barcelona lost, they would talk about how unimportant the trophy is, and if they won, they would celebrate it like the Champions League. Xavi proved my words true. He also proved that he really doesn’t know how to win, since he always has to insult the losing team rather than being happy with the win. And not just insult, but also provoke at the same time.

The statement: our behavior is exemplary, both on and off the field (Pep Guardiola). The response: Pinto. Busquets. Villa. Messi. Xavi. Choking. Racism. Punching. Petulant kicking. Insults. And that’s just the beginning. I didn’t even get around to Pep himself, though I do agree with him that this has to stop before things take a turn for the worse.

Plus, Barcelona fielded an ineligible player on Wednesday. The referee noted in his post-game report that “the player wearing number 4 for FC Barcelona, Francesc Fabregas Soler, did not have a federation license, not having presented his original ID card along with authorization from the LFP.”

The statement: I don’t recognize Casillas. Madrid has forgotten that they don’t have to be thugs in order to win. The worst thing is seeing players such as Casillas or Xabi Alonso following Mourinho’s example” (Manolo Lama, Cadena Cope). The response: I do recognize Casillas. He’s the same, intelligent, logical, steady player I’ve loved for 11 years. Iker is the captain of Spain and Real Madrid, and Xabi is fairly close to being both as well. They didn’t get there by allowing others to control them. They have earned the respect of most people. If Iker or Xabi says or does anything, it’s because that’s how they really feel or believe. And is it that surprising that they may feel or believe something similar to their coach? While Madrid may have played a physical game at times, they don’t always play like that. And it just looks worse when the other team is constantly falling to the ground and rolling around in pain for no reason.

Pep shouting "You are a *bleep* gang" when they scored just reeks of insecurity and suits their village club mentality TBH.

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:52 pm

Yeah... Barca are horrible sportsmen. We all know that. And it's not just Madrid. EPL fans hate them. In France, the true football fans can't stand them. It's prevalent.

That said, as insulting as they might be, you have to set a limit. You need to foul hard, but cannot headhunt. Marcelo was targeting Messi... that's clear on the first foul. On the one that got him ejected, he didn't care who it was. The first person who received the ball with his back turned to him was going to get nailed. That is inexcusable.

Words hurt... sure. But making tackles that can be career threatening are worst than anything someone cannot be tolerated.

Bottom line... we need to continue setting the hard physical tone as long as Barca are using theatrics. You might have noticed that it's lessened a bit as Barca players realize that they need to watch for the actual hard foul as opposed to trying to make a soft one look bad. Takes away from their acting concentration lol.

But we need to keep our cool. Best payback is to win. And we are definitely very, very close to throwing them off their short-lived crown. Just need to stay the course.

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Post by Ganso on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:17 pm

i do not understand why people want Marcelo benched though.Yes Coentrao is better defensively,but not a rock solid FB,he had a hard time against pedro,and he also doesnt add to attack as much as marcelo,marcelo's passing and creativity is missed in all of the matches ive seen madrid play without him.

Also,cmon,celo isnt that bad defensively
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:23 pm

Nobody wants Marcelo benched Ganso... all we're saying is that if Marcelo were suspended (doesn't seem like it's going to happen now) and Sahin takes over the midfield, then Marcelo is going to have a heck of a time beating out Coentrao at LB.

Coentrao has a much bigger engine and is much better defensively. He's also plenty good offensively. Marcelo's great offense would be covered as Sahin>>>>>Coentrao offensively in the midfield.

Remember that 2 goals in the supercopa were initially caused because Marcelo made lunging tackles that failed and destabilized the defense. It created space between defenders that Messi took advantage of both times, including the last one (probably why Marcelo went crazy).

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:25 pm

I want both to be tried out, sounds like a crazy challenge, but we can try it out.


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Post by guest7 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:25 pm

To be honest, I often felt Marcelo had to cover up alot for Carvalho, in Supercopa. I'd not say that those were his best games though.
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:30 pm

omarish wrote:To be honest, I often felt Marcelo had to cover up alot for Carvalho, in Supercopa. I'd not say that those were his best games though.

That was a big problem. Both Carvalho and Marcelo (much less Marcelo, although very badly timed) whiffed a ton... that put pressure on Pepe to try and recover on their side and forced Ramos to move more inside on his coverage. Just created too many gaps.

I actually love Marcelo. He's a hothead with tremendous talent. He is getting better imo and visibly so. But his brutal tackles were way over the top and he still need to work on his defensive timing. Lacks strategic awareness on defense... but his effort and effectiveness have improved a lot.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:32 pm

Of course Marcelo had to cover Carvalho, he is a defender, and as highlighted by Zonal Marking, Carvalho was pushed high to deal with Messi playing as a false 9.

but he was very slow at times, Ramos would have done wonder in that role.

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