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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat 20 Aug - 19:42:51

By Unamadridista,
http://unamadridista.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/icymi-the-bad-edition/


Well Wednesday was a special game, so I’m going to do something different with the ICYMI post. I’ve divided it into two parts, the bad (this one) and the good. You can consider them the “hopefully, you did miss it” and the “in case you missed it” posts.

With that said, on Wednesday night, there were ugly things from both teams. Both are at fault, and neither one is blameless. Here are some of the things I didn’t like:

the melee - I didn’t like the hard tackle by Marcelo on Cesc that led to the fight, but the attitudes shown by both teams after were deplorable as well. I wrote both teams, because no matter how hard everyone tries to blame Madrid, Barcelona’s players and coaching staff were also involved and they also punched, strangled, shoved… For example, Keita shoved Pepe when the latter was trying to separate others and see how Cesc, who was still on the ground and in danger of being trampled, was. And these fights are almost becoming a cliché in the clásicos, no? With all the problems in this world, in the end, this is just a game played by grown men. Grown men who should know better.

Özil vs. Villa – both players ended up having to be separated, as Villa shoved Mesut when his back was turned, Valdés then hit Mesut in the face, followed by Villa punching him in the face as well. When trying to separate Özil, Barça’s field delegate Carles Naval accidentally swept his hand across Mesut’s face. The referee did not mention Villa punching Mesut in his post-game report, as he didn’t see it. He explained that both players were red carded for “leaving the bench, entering the field, going up to a rival player, grabbing his shirt several times while confronting him.” What made Mesut Özil, who is known for being a mild, calm person get so upset? Sources from Madrid consulted by AS confirm what Özil said later on that Villa had insulted him (there are rumors that Villa insulted his religion, but I can’t see Villa doing that). It took three people – Marcelo (who had already started walking off the field after getting red carded), Khedira and one of the staff members – to pull Özil off the field. That’s how worked up he was, so we know it can’t be anything trivial. And before anyone says that this can’t be true because Mesut can’t speak/understand Spanish, well apparently Mesut also managed to shout some insults in Spanish as he was leaving the field. That’s awful as well, and I condemn that. (It just once again shows that the bad things are always the first things you learn in a new language.)

Pinto - does he do anything besides run off the bench to get involved in fights (and whistle)? Oh yes, he allowed a goal in the Copa del Rey final that gave the Cup to Madrid. He’s contributed so much to the club’s image.

José Mourinho’s hands - as everyone knows, at one point during the melee, Mou strolled up to Tito Vilanova, Barcelona’s assistant coach, and poked him in the eye. Vilanova responded by slapping Mou across the side of his head. José Morais then tried to get at Vilanova. In his press conference after the game, Mou stated that he did not know who Vilanova was. Now the former action in and of itself is unforgivable. It gives Madrid a bad image. And given what a control freak Mou is, I’m sure he knows perfectly well who Vilanova is. There really was no need to slight him later on, and that only succeeded in making him look petty. With that said, video images showed that when the fight was about to start, Vilanova made a beeline for Mou. I’m sure he didn’t have good intentions. But that still doesn’t excuse what Mou did.

Mourinho also made a gesture that could be interpreted as something smelling bad when Messi and Alves were near him. That was after Messi spit on the sideline about a meter away from Mou’s shoes, and after Alves shoved Marcelo in the face while trying to separate him from Messi. I’m not saying that the gesture was in good taste, but it certainly wasn’t unprovoked.

other provocations: according to sources in Madrid consulted by AS, Pep Guardiola went up to Madrid’s bench after one of the goals and shouted, “you’re a *bleep* gang” three times. Messi also made some not so polite gestures, such as indicating that it was time for Madrid to shut up. Vilanova also directed various insults at Madrid, using his mouth and his hands. Xabi Alonso said he had seen “disagreeable attitudes and things” from the Barcelona players. We all know that this man wouldn’t make things up.

According to Marca, in the line-up list Barça handed out to the press before the game, they wrote Real Madrid as “Reial Madrid,” or the club’s name as it would be in Catalan. That’s the same as calling it Huang Ma (learned from the recent China trip) in this report and is just another insult. Madrid said they have never referred to the Camp Nou as “Campo Nuevo,” for example, because they have respect for these types of things.

the racist noises: the stadium made monkey noises at Marcelo starting after he fouled Messi and continuing after he was expelled for his tackle on Cesc. As Barcelona VP Josep María Bartomeu said earlier this year, “they are things that happen all the time in football.” So, I guess we should just forget it and move on. Never mind that his own players have suffered the same types of abuses. Plus, the lasers. That’s really getting old. I would have expected more originality from the Camp Nou.

Barcelona’s theatrics – this shouldn’t surprise anyone, and Iker complained about it after the game, saying that Marcelo’s expulsion was due to “the tackle they made, the rival player fell to the ground, as always.” Provocative words for sure, but there were several incidents during the game. In the action that saw Pepe end up with a yellow card – and it deserved one – Messi went down clutching his face, even though Pepe hadn’t touched his face. A few seconds later, he was roughly wiping his face with his shirt, which he wouldn’t have done had his face really been hurting. After tangling with Pepe, Piqué also fell to the ground in the same position several minutes later. This time there was contact, but knowing how easily Piqué bleeds, I’m sure that if it was a real hard foul, he would have bled (that last sentence was sarcasm, Barcelona fans, before you jump at my throat).

the ball boys: they did try delaying tactics by not giving Madrid the ball or sending two onto the field. When the latter happened, Özil kicked it into the crowd. That was bad; he also shouldn’t stoop to Messi’s level. Alves’ and Valdés’ tactics of running around with the ball instead of kicking it/throwing it in to waste time were not examples of sportsmanlike behavior either.

The attitudes of some of Barcelona’s players were also deplorable. I’m sorry, but they aren’t the paradigm of moral behavior and the holders of the absolute truth as they and some of their fans would like to believe. At times they do make sense, but there are other times when they just sound like sore losers/winners. And before these people start criticizing me, I am by no means saying that Madrid is, plus I don’t always agree with the things coming out of the Madrid camp.

The statement: Mourinho is destroying Spanish football. People talk a lot about the Catalanes, but the problem is in Madrid (Gerard Piqué). The response: last I checked, Mourinho’s team was playing fairly good football, very entertaining, and a vast improvement over last year. Besides, I don’t think one person is capable of singlehandedly destroying an entire style/game/league in the time of less than one year. If you want to talk about destroying Spanish football’s image, take a look at those clubs who don’t pay their players, part of the reason why there won’t be football this weekend.

But if what Piqué means by Spanish football is Barcelona’s football (which is definitely how Xavi would interpret it), then he might have a point, because in these two games, Madrid showed it is a challenger to Barcelona. Plus, if he’s tired of everyone always politicizing football by bringing in the Catalan factor, as he and others have stated many times before, why bring politics into this argument? It appears that he wants to fan the flames of this politicized anti-Madrid sentiment. If he’s tired of others doing it to him, then he shouldn’t do it to others. It’s also Barcelona’s fall-back argument for everything and it’s getting old.

The statement: for me, the image speaks for itself and it’s pathetic. It’s a shame. Madrid’s image is lamentable and does not fit with that of the institution (Xavi). The response: while I do agree that certain people didn’t present their best image on Wednesday and other times, in general there are many scenes out of the club that make me proud, that show that’s it’s not “pathetic” or “lamentable.” For example, Xabi and Iker trying to stop the fight, instead of adding to it, or Kaká refusing to join in at all. Or, the response to the Lorca earthquake. While Barcelona was busy celebrating their Liga title and only showing their support via a misspelled banner, Madrid was in Lorca, speaking to the people, bringing them hope and raising money for reconstruction.

The statement: Marcelo came out to hurt Cesc. And you can say the same about Pepe. There are some Real Madrid players that only make brutal tackles (Xavi). The response: yes, I’m sure Marcelo had it in for Cesc, that he had been planning this entire thing for months, considering that Cesc has been a Barça player for about four days and that he came in as a substitute with less than 10 minutes left. Marcelo and Pepe do what they believe opportune for the moment, bad or good, but to suggest they have it in for certain players seems to be a bit delusional.

The statement: we stayed on the field when they raised up the Copa del Rey in Valencia. They should have stayed for our celebration (again, Xavi). The response: the RFEF has come out and said that Madrid’s presence on the field was not required, as there’s no protocol that obliges them to stay on the field, and so no one told Madrid they had to stay. The case was different in the Copa Del Rey, because the runner-up had to go get their medals, so they had to stay, and was duly informed. In addition, the stadium’s own security forces had advised Madrid’s team to get off the field right after the final whistle blew. Dr. Serratosa tried to go over to congratulate his counterparts in Barcelona, but was told he had to go to the locker room. Plus, maybe Madrid was just following Barcelona’s example, as back in 1988 when Madrid won the Supercopa at the Camp Nou, Barcelona didn’t stay on the field to watch Madrid lift up the trophy.

Iker, Xabi and Sergio did end up congratulating Barcelona via the press, later on, but some people are disappointed that they did not shake the hands of the Barcelona players or congratulate them personally. Perhaps they should, but given the situation, the best and safest thing for everyone was for Madrid to get off the field and for Barcelona to celebrate. And let me remind you that after the Copa del Rey final, Álvaro Arbeloa extended his hand to Xavi, who ignored it. And in the other post, there’s a gif of Xavi ignoring Raúl Albiol. Again, it’s a two-way street. It’s not only the Madrid players being “unsportsmanlike.”

The statement: [a possible solution to this mess] depends only on them (still Xavi). The response: funny, that fight looked just a bit two-sided to me. There’s not only one team at fault, Xavi. Barcelona’s players and coaches haven’t been angels (again, neither has Madrid), from their provocations, their words, their gestures, their theatrics (I can give concrete examples for each one if anyone is interested). This mess can only be resolved by both teams. Both.

The statement: we believe in justice and justice was served today (Xavi). The response: I guess Xavi updated his “football has triumphed” statement for the new season. And who knew he was such a comedian? Yes, Barcelona did convert on the chances they had, but the teams could be seen as equally matched, so who’s to say who the just winner is, if we look only at football?

The statement: we’re not in our best physical moment, yet we still beat Madrid, who had dedicated themselves to preparing for this Supercopa (last one from Xavi, I promise!). The response: I knew that if Barcelona lost, they would talk about how unimportant the trophy is, and if they won, they would celebrate it like the Champions League. Xavi proved my words true. He also proved that he really doesn’t know how to win, since he always has to insult the losing team rather than being happy with the win. And not just insult, but also provoke at the same time.

The statement: our behavior is exemplary, both on and off the field (Pep Guardiola). The response: Pinto. Busquets. Villa. Messi. Xavi. Choking. Racism. Punching. Petulant kicking. Insults. And that’s just the beginning. I didn’t even get around to Pep himself, though I do agree with him that this has to stop before things take a turn for the worse.

Plus, Barcelona fielded an ineligible player on Wednesday. The referee noted in his post-game report that “the player wearing number 4 for FC Barcelona, Francesc Fabregas Soler, did not have a federation license, having instead presented his original ID card along with authorization from the LFP.”

The statement: I don’t recognize Casillas. Madrid has forgotten that they don’t have to be thugs in order to win. The worst thing is seeing players such as Casillas or Xabi Alonso following Mourinho’s example” (Manolo Lama, Cadena Cope). The response: I do recognize Casillas. He’s the same, intelligent, logical, steady player I’ve loved for 11 years. Iker is the captain of Spain and Real Madrid, and Xabi is fairly close to being both as well. They didn’t get there by allowing others to control them. They have earned the respect of most people. If Iker or Xabi says or does anything, it’s because that’s how they really feel or believe. And is it that surprising that they may feel or believe something similar to their coach? While Madrid may have played a physical game at times, they don’t always play like that. And it just looks worse when the other team is constantly falling to the ground and rolling around in pain for no reason.

The statement: José Mourinho is a real blemish on Spanish football… There’s a player that personifies the transition between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and that’s Iker Casillas. He’s gone from being a sensible boy to being a crazy one. They’ve messed him up (Carles Vilarrubí, Barcelona VP, to RAC1). The response: yes, some of Mou’s actions cannot be justified. But there are a lot of other things that give Spanish football a bad name, and some of them originate with Barcelona (and Madrid, as well). I love how some people want to blame Mourinho for absolutely everything. While they’re at it, they might as well throw in things from the past, while he wasn’t even coaching in the Liga, and the future as well. And as for that comment on Iker, wow. Like I said above, Iker doesn’t allow anyone to control or change him. He’s a 30-year-old man. He’s the captain of Real Madrid and of the Spanish national team. One doesn’t get there by being “crazy.” One gets there by being sensible. People seem to really believe that Mou possesses magical skills that allow him to transform players’ mindsets and personalities (never mind that most of them have spent 20 or more years developing them and are grown men) with the snap of his fingers. But as he said, he’s not Harry Potter!


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Post by guest7 on Sat 20 Aug - 19:44:37

I read it too, she gives very valid points and shows the bad stuff from both sides.
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Post by The Madrid One on Sat 20 Aug - 19:49:26

the goal of barcelona fans is to make us look worst than we are, and make people envision us in a very anti football way, they want to destroy us as a club in every single way.

that is why i sometimes wish radical and ill things happen to the catalans.

bar iniesta

hope they all burn
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Post by H.A. on Sat 20 Aug - 19:54:46

Xavi is still humble and respectful.

Oh and once a village club always a village club Razz

Anyway this explains everything that happened really but still the losers will always be the villains, so we will still be the villains for what happened even though it was both teams fault.

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Post by Senor Penguin on Sat 20 Aug - 20:05:04

I've come to respect Xavi lately ... Mostly because he's pretty hilarious and his interviews are rarely boring.

If I'm bored I can always look up a quote by Xavi and giggle.

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Post by Doc on Sat 20 Aug - 20:05:32

Even the neutral (unless it's with Real Oviedo) Sid Lowe is questioning what exactly is Pinto's purpose...

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Post by The Madrid One on Sat 20 Aug - 20:11:57

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com/2011/08/the-football-and-the-non-football/

this is an equally as good article
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Post by futbol_bill on Sun 21 Aug - 0:30:02

Nick, excellent post. It's not often we get this kind of background information.I found it very informative.

It must have been an interesting discussion, Casillas had with Puyol and Xavi!! I understand they have patched things up (at the request of VDB) - at least until the next Classico.

I wish very much that next game can be what we saw for 175 minutes and that both sides can keep these melees out of the games. It really was some of the best futbol by 2 excellent teams that we have seen in some time. And both sides are not season ready yet and Madrid still has a long way to go to bring out true potential. So I hope we can see good futbol (which IMO does include hard tackling and diving - which a certain immature Barca troll doesn't want to ackowledge).
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Post by futbol_bill on Sun 21 Aug - 0:31:30

@Doc wrote:Even the neutral (unless it's with Real Oviedo) Sid Lowe is questioning what exactly is Pinto's purpose...

Doc, I'm from Oviedo. I don't get your reference to Real Oviedo.
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Post by RealGunner on Sun 21 Aug - 1:43:47

@The Madrid One wrote:the goal of barcelona fans is to make us look worst than we are, and make people envision us in a very anti football way, they want to destroy us as a club in every single way.

that is why i sometimes wish radical and ill things happen to the catalans.

bar iniesta

hope they all burn

keep making posts like that and u wont last in this forum
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Post by Doc on Sun 21 Aug - 2:56:48

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Doc wrote:Even the neutral (unless it's with Real Oviedo) Sid Lowe is questioning what exactly is Pinto's purpose...

Doc, I'm from Oviedo. I don't get your reference to Real Oviedo.

Probably word it wrong but Side Lowe is a Real Oviedo fan supposedly. Was just stating that he is neutral when it comes to all matters that doesn't concern Real Oviedo...

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Post by Arquitecto on Sun 21 Aug - 3:30:42

While I condemn some of Barca's actions;

this is infact a rather poorly written article with meager justification and the use of simple deductive reasoning and logic along with oversimplified thought process to satisfy the Madridistas.

I already am anticipating the ridiculous responses I will receive to this, but I'm speaking to the level-headed and true madridistas who know what I'm talking about.


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Post by The Madrid One on Sun 21 Aug - 3:33:27

@Arquitecto wrote:While I condemn some of Barca's actions;

this is infact a rather poorly written article with meager justification and the use of simple deductive reasoning and logic along with oversimplified thought process to satisfy the Madridistas.

I already am anticipating the ridiculous responses I will receive to this, but I'm speaking to the level-headed and true madridistas who know what I'm talking about.

its just an article by a fan, no reason to over think it.. Razz

she has her opinions and its pretty much the average one at that.. nothing wrong.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun 21 Aug - 3:34:08

@Arquitecto wrote:While I condemn some of Barca's actions;

this is infact a rather poorly written article with meager justification and the use of simple deductive reasoning and logic along with oversimplified thought process to satisfy the Madridistas.

I already am anticipating the ridiculous responses I will receive to this, but I'm speaking to the level-headed and true madridistas who know what I'm talking about.


you would get a response, but you need to pinpoint what you have an issue with and engage in discussion.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun 21 Aug - 5:05:12

solid read. thanks nick.
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Post by LaDecima on Sun 21 Aug - 6:57:49

sorry we lost boys...we'll get em next time
its going to happen this year, don't worry

we create so many chances but dont finish them for whatever reason (bad luck, poor form). and barca finishes the 2 chances they create (efficiency, good luck). that's all there was to it....

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Post by Zealous on Sun 21 Aug - 11:35:10

I already posted this but I don't mind seeing it again Very Happy

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Post by Arquitecto on Sun 21 Aug - 17:52:37

the melee - I didn’t like the hard tackle by Marcelo on Cesc that led to the fight, but the attitudes shown by both teams after were deplorable as well. I wrote both teams, because no matter how hard everyone tries to blame Madrid, Barcelona’s players and coaching staff were also involved and they also punched, strangled, shoved… For example, Keita shoved Pepe when the latter was trying to separate others and see how Cesc, who was still on the ground and in danger of being trampled, was. And these fights are almost becoming a cliché in the clásicos, no? With all the problems in this world, in the end, this is just a game played by grown men. Grown men who should know better.

Nothing really new here. Whats funny is she is saying Pepe was trying to break the fight up when clearly he was involved as one of the aggressors within the fight. In the end, she finishes it off beautifully by comparing the worlds problems with a rivalry. I guess she has no idea that these are players who dedicate their lives to football as their passion for the game and success won't be eclipsed what the worlds problems. Another typical female football fans who knows fck all about the game, rivalries and insight into what causes the emotion. As mentioned above, this paragraph brings NOTHING new.


Özil vs. Villa – both players ended up having to be separated, as Villa shoved Mesut when his back was turned, Valdés then hit Mesut in the face, followed by Villa punching him in the face as well. When trying to separate Özil, Barça’s field delegate Carles Naval accidentally swept his hand across Mesut’s face. The referee did not mention Villa punching Mesut in his post-game report, as he didn’t see it. He explained that both players were red carded for “leaving the bench, entering the field, going up to a rival player, grabbing his shirt several times while confronting him.” What made Mesut Özil, who is known for being a mild, calm person get so upset? Sources from Madrid consulted by AS confirm what Özil said later on that Villa had insulted him (there are rumors that Villa insulted his religion, but I can’t see Villa doing that). It took three people – Marcelo (who had already started walking off the field after getting red carded), Khedira and one of the staff members – to pull Özil off the field. That’s how worked up he was, so we know it can’t be anything trivial. And before anyone says that this can’t be true because Mesut can’t speak/understand Spanish, well apparently Mesut also managed to shout some insults in Spanish as he was leaving the field. That’s awful as well, and I condemn that. (It just once again shows that the bad things are always the first things you learn in a new language.)

Really? Tell me something new please. What is she even trying to say here? Another nonsensical paragraph in which she seems to only be splaying her thoughts without any structure.

Pinto - does he do anything besides run off the bench to get involved in fights (and whistle)? Oh yes, he allowed a goal in the Copa del Rey final that gave the Cup to Madrid. He’s contributed so much to the club’s image

I have to agree here as Pinto is a useless old man who does in fact leech off Barca's success. But is this an article or a blog?

José Mourinho’s hands - as everyone knows, at one point during the melee, Mou strolled up to Tito Vilanova, Barcelona’s assistant coach, and poked him in the eye. Vilanova responded by slapping Mou across the side of his head. José Morais then tried to get at Vilanova. In his press conference after the game, Mou stated that he did not know who Vilanova was. Now the former action in and of itself is unforgivable. It gives Madrid a bad image. And given what a control freak Mou is, I’m sure he knows perfectly well who Vilanova is. There really was no need to slight him later on, and that only succeeded in making him look petty. With that said, video images showed that when the fight was about to start, Vilanova made a beeline for Mou. I’m sure he didn’t have good intentions. But that still doesn’t excuse what Mou did.

Mourinho also made a gesture that could be interpreted as something smelling bad when Messi and Alves were near him. That was after Messi spit on the sideline about a meter away from Mou’s shoes, and after Alves shoved Marcelo in the face while trying to separate him from Messi. I’m not saying that the gesture was in good taste, but it certainly wasn’t unprovoked.

Once again, have I learned anything here? No. And did Alves really "shove" marcelo in the face? Nope.


other provocations: according to sources in Madrid consulted by AS, Pep Guardiola went up to Madrid’s bench after one of the goals and shouted, “you’re a *bleep* gang” three times. Messi also made some not so polite gestures, such as indicating that it was time for Madrid to shut up. Vilanova also directed various insults at Madrid, using his mouth and his hands. Xabi Alonso said he had seen “disagreeable attitudes and things” from the Barcelona players. We all know that this man wouldn’t make things up.

According to Marca, in the line-up list Barça handed out to the press before the game, they wrote Real Madrid as “Reial Madrid,” or the club’s name as it would be in Catalan. That’s the same as calling it Huang Ma (learned from the recent China trip) in this report and is just another insult. Madrid said they have never referred to the Camp Nou as “Campo Nuevo,” for example, because they have respect for these types of things.

Just like in Ozil vs Villa; she mentions another time "according to sources". This whole paragraph highlights here thoughts evolved from various sources with who are known to create news from thin air.

the racist noises: the stadium made monkey noises at Marcelo starting after he fouled Messi and continuing after he was expelled for his tackle on Cesc. As Barcelona VP Josep María Bartomeu said earlier this year, “they are things that happen all the time in football.” So, I guess we should just forget it and move on. Never mind that his own players have suffered the same types of abuses. Plus, the lasers. That’s really getting old. I would have expected more originality from the Camp Nou.

Really? Cause last I saw, lasers also existed in the bernabeu along with the racist noises. Also, it happens in every Spanish club or English club or Italian club as the woman clearly doesn't know of the term: Ultras or Madrids Ultras Sur.

Also, here is Bartomeu: "I don't understand why Busquets should miss out on the final. That's something that surprises us a lot. The referee is the one who makes decisions on the field. Depriving Busquets, who is having a sensational season, of the final seems very excessive to us and we're very upset. I don't know what Señor Busquets said and what they were talking about, but they are things that happen all the time in football. If we have to put a camera on each player to follow what they say or do, this will become a circus. Football has triumphed, along with fair play…

I love how she has taken this completely out of context as its even more funny how here she lets here bias get in the way of here article by the comment on Camp Nou.

Of course, its not Barca who are responsible for the respect and racism campaign as that is up to the Spanish FA, another blunder by this one-tracked woman.

Barcelona’s theatrics – this shouldn’t surprise anyone, and Iker complained about it after the game, saying that Marcelo’s expulsion was due to “the tackle they made, the rival player fell to the ground, as always.” Provocative words for sure, but there were several incidents during the game. In the action that saw Pepe end up with a yellow card – and it deserved one – Messi went down clutching his face, even though Pepe hadn’t touched his face. A few seconds later, he was roughly wiping his face with his shirt, which he wouldn’t have done had his face really been hurting. After tangling with Pepe, Piqué also fell to the ground in the same position several minutes later. This time there was contact, but knowing how easily Piqué bleeds, I’m sure that if it was a real hard foul, he would have bled (that last sentence was sarcasm, Barcelona fans, before you jump at my throat).

We all know Barca players dive, but I guess some didn't see the theatrics of Di Maria, Marcelo, Coentrao, and to some extent, CR7 as they all to, made a meal of when they have been fouled upon. I do agree that Barca players dive far far more but it cannot be said that the players of RM do not or have not within the series of classicos.

And I love Iker, but he isn't in a position to call anything when he was half way across the field.

P.S: I did not comment on the paragraph above as its simply a series of words by my increasing suspicion that she has tourettes syndrome.

the ball boys: they did try delaying tactics by not giving Madrid the ball or sending two onto the field. When the latter happened, Özil kicked it into the crowd. That was bad; he also shouldn’t stoop to Messi’s level. Alves’ and Valdés’ tactics of running around with the ball instead of kicking it/throwing it in to waste time were not examples of sportsmanlike behavior either.

The attitudes of some of Barcelona’s players were also deplorable. I’m sorry, but they aren’t the paradigm of moral behavior and the holders of the absolute truth as they and some of their fans would like to believe. At times they do make sense, but there are other times when they just sound like sore losers/winners. And before these people start criticizing me, I am by no means saying that Madrid is, plus I don’t always agree with the things coming out of the Madrid camp

I'm guessing she had a hard time deciding what she is really trying to say here.

I'll summarize it since she seems confused.

The ball boys DID in fact delay the time yet it cannot be attributed to Barca as its commonly known that ball boys are of local habitat and of young age so for example you are the ball boy of Madrid, would you not have some urge to help your team?

I am not defending this in any form yet it simply cannot be connected to Barca. The rest? She seems all to confused to decide on her stance.

The rest of the paragraphs degrade further in quality as its clear here bias clouds her judgment along with typical female football fan behavior in which she clearly has no insight in the footballing world or her own opinions for that matter.

I know all to many female football watchers who have paltry and surface views of everything and take everything at face value based on assumptions as this is a classic example here.

If Nick tried, he could have written thrice the article then she has as I am insulting the author and not Madrid.

I'll summarize it here.

This is a rivalry. By principle, these players are taught not to behave the way they have yet, when it comes to the pressure of succeeding against the only obstacle to your success, wouldn't it be hard to stay in character? The pressure that is faced to perform and earn bragging rights along with the stress, heat of the battle and increased blood pressure causes impulsive and reactive behavior. Example? Mou, Ozil, Villa, Marcelo, Ramos, Messi, Tito. All of the mentioned performed some extraordinary act that has caused the tension to further increase as yes, they all should have more control over themselves, but DO understand that the increasing pressure of rivalry causes reactionary outbursts and actions that eventually are regretted by their aggressors.

I'll tell you, I still stick by my stance on how Mou is not a good influence for Madrid or its future as I also stick by my stance that the behaviors in the game from both sides should be condemned yet not to the point of oblivion where theories, fallacy and speculation is formed upon the players, staff and organization as this truly is knee jerk philosophy.

In conclusion; what has happened has happened as each Classico will further bring a new light to the proceedings of the rivalry as the aggressors are in fault for their actions yet its time to let go as both sides are guilty.

What have I seen besides the fiascos? Barca were the better team. Yet, Madrid have shown leaps and bounds of improvement as I truly did not expect such character from the players who you would think would flop in such high pressure situations.

My prediction is Madrid will win the CL and the La Liga regardless of the Classico outcomes within the league.


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Post by Guest on Sun 21 Aug - 19:06:51

@Arquitecto wrote:I cannot say much to this as you are a Madrid fan and entitled to this opinion far more then me.

What I am saying is Mou is not effective for a long term solution as he WILL in fact leave when his job is done as he is known to leave without setting a future outcome for the team as the same happened for Porto, Chelsea, and Inter.

Mou is short term and will win you trophies as I can understand that this is imminent.

Yet, I like to think of my club years down the line and further.

Its commonly known Mou treats this as a project rather then building a dynasty.

I have other comments regarding his influence on the club and its outcome yet I'll save that for when I release a topic on this.



[/color]

These statements make it obvious that you're not following how Mou is approaching this project:
- Consistently call up Castilla players for games and intentionally kept a short squad to allow for Castilla players to come in (no 3rd CF, no additional fullback)
- All the main players he has signed at Madrid (Ceontrao, Khedira, Ozil, Sahin, Varane), other than Carvalho, were 23 years or less.... in the case of Varane, he's 18. He is absolutely building for a dynasty
- We lent out Canales and Sarabia with buyback options in 2-3 years. That allows the contract of Kaka to get off the books while getting experience for these kids. We will bring back whoever develops into the better player
- Commitment to buying a lot of youth players on the development teams and getting Castilla promoted to Segunda. Mou has made it one of Madrid's main goals

If he decides to leave in a year or two, we will be in a much better place for the future as the emphasis is clearly on youth. I personally think he has created the perfect situation for himself to stay for 3-4 more years to see his project to conclusion = dynasty.

As most outsiders, you only have a very superficial understanding of Madrid as it stands and Mou's vision for the club. It doesn't really make you look all that good coming here and telling us what to think about our club when we are much more in tune with the details.

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Post by The Madrid One on Sun 21 Aug - 19:11:27

@sportsczy wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:I cannot say much to this as you are a Madrid fan and entitled to this opinion far more then me.

What I am saying is Mou is not effective for a long term solution as he WILL in fact leave when his job is done as he is known to leave without setting a future outcome for the team as the same happened for Porto, Chelsea, and Inter.

Mou is short term and will win you trophies as I can understand that this is imminent.

Yet, I like to think of my club years down the line and further.

Its commonly known Mou treats this as a project rather then building a dynasty.

I have other comments regarding his influence on the club and its outcome yet I'll save that for when I release a topic on this.



[/color]

These statements make it obvious that you're not following how Mou is approaching this project:
- Consistently call up Castilla players for games and intentionally kept a short squad to allow for Castilla players to come in (no 3rd CF, no additional fullback)
- All the main players he has signed at Madrid (Ceontrao, Khedira, Ozil, Sahin, Varane), other than Carvalho, were 23 years or less.... in the case of Varane, he's 18. He is absolutely building for a dynasty
- We lent out Canales and Sarabia with buyback options in 2-3 years. That allows the contract of Kaka to get off the books while getting experience for these kids. We will bring back whoever develops into the better player
- Commitment to buying a lot of youth players on the development teams and getting Castilla promoted to Segunda. Mou has made it one of Madrid's main goals

If he decides to leave in a year or two, we will be in a much better place for the future as the emphasis is clearly on youth. I personally think he has created the perfect situation for himself to stay for 3-4 more years to see his project to conclusion = dynasty.

As most outsiders, you only have a very superficial understanding of Madrid as it stands and Mou's vision for the club. It doesn't really make you look all that good coming here and telling us what to think about our club when we are much more in tune with the details.
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Post by Arquitecto on Sun 21 Aug - 19:18:35

@sportsczy wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:I cannot say much to this as you are a Madrid fan and entitled to this opinion far more then me.

What I am saying is Mou is not effective for a long term solution as he WILL in fact leave when his job is done as he is known to leave without setting a future outcome for the team as the same happened for Porto, Chelsea, and Inter.

Mou is short term and will win you trophies as I can understand that this is imminent.

Yet, I like to think of my club years down the line and further.

Its commonly known Mou treats this as a project rather then building a dynasty.

I have other comments regarding his influence on the club and its outcome yet I'll save that for when I release a topic on this.



[/color]

These statements make it obvious that you're not following how Mou is approaching this project:
- Consistently call up Castilla players for games and intentionally kept a short squad to allow for Castilla players to come in (no 3rd CF, no additional fullback)
- All the main players he has signed at Madrid (Ceontrao, Khedira, Ozil, Sahin, Varane), other than Carvalho, were 23 years or less.... in the case of Varane, he's 18. He is absolutely building for a dynasty
- We lent out Canales and Sarabia with buyback options in 2-3 years. That allows the contract of Kaka to get off the books while getting experience for these kids. We will bring back whoever develops into the better player
- Commitment to buying a lot of youth players on the development teams and getting Castilla promoted to Segunda. Mou has made it one of Madrid's main goals

If he decides to leave in a year or two, we will be in a much better place for the future as the emphasis is clearly on youth. I personally think he has created the perfect situation for himself to stay for 3-4 more years to see his project to conclusion = dynasty.

As most outsiders, you only have a very superficial understanding of Madrid as it stands and Mou's vision for the club. It doesn't really make you look all that good coming here and telling us what to think about our club when we are much more in tune with the details.


Mourinho did the exact same thing within Porto, Chelsea and Inter with the influx of youth players and systems and the outcome was the exact same. Wake up.

The system above is standard for a manager in his nascent years of managing a new club.


and I hope you know that Jose angel Sanchez is responsible for more then half of these projects.

A dynasty is built with results and consistent en devour to the project as the commitment is not valid until a new generation erupts.






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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun 21 Aug - 19:21:49

Is that comment she made about world peace, and the expectations on grown men that bothersome to you? It sounds more like a touch of sarcasm. People presented the fights in that clasico as the end of football, barcelona players themsselves and their coach did. It's not the first time people were fighting. The game was extremely close, so people focused on that. Last time we fought and we lost 5-0, people were mocking us, it's all circumstancial at the end of the day.

About the fans - It's really a article from a fan written for the fans. Ever since barcelona started their hegemony, the propaganda has sounded very strongly, and this is something you get from the fans, as if football restarded in the early 2000's, with barcelona having this image of the club that dont buy but train their own kids and that's THE WAY, with them being holier than us all, them being perfect on and off the pitch. So all she did was highlighting just how disgusting the camp nou can be as well, which crashes against the propaganda. The fans complain about the "supposed" racist chants in the bernabeu, but dont say anything about what happens in their own stadium.

Is he treating us as a project? i would think that our team would be full of mercenaries by now, but we are investing on youth, which certainly give more dimension to the project. It's my feeling as a madrid fan that it's a little more than that, as he took on a gargantuan fight to change our structure from the inside.

Mourinho who was called a defensive coach is playing entertaining football as a madrid coach, something Capello never achieved. Sure mourinho has better talent but you get my point. Imo, there is more than enough chances that he actually stick here as opposed to just leaving after winning. In some twisted place of his mind, he must be dreaming about being a repeat UCL champion no? I think he is giving himself the basis to be successful in madrid with chances of repeat.

I dont always look at two situations as the same. With porto, he had to leave, what more was there for him to achieved, a repeat was impossible. With Chelsea, i think he wanted to settle, but got kicked out. With inter, he dumped them after achieving a miracle imo, that team is rotting, and need some juice. Now with Real, i think he is in the same conditions he was in chelsea, and the challenge of beating barcelona is quite unique. Imo, he has that fantasy of matching SAF in the long run by settling in one club, but i dont think it's necessarily with Utd. Just a thought.

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Post by The Madrid One on Sun 21 Aug - 19:25:30

rumors of him going to united are far fetched imo, if ferguson wants someone to take his job i doubt its mourinho, and if villas boas stays at chelsea then mou would prob have no place in england.

if he has success here his time here will also depend on the opportunities hes opened up to.
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Post by Arquitecto on Sun 21 Aug - 19:39:03

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Is that comment she made about world peace, and the expectations on grown men that bothersome to you? It sounds more like a touch of sarcasm. People presented the fights in that clasico as the end of football, barcelona players themsselves and their coach did. It's not the first time people were fighting. The game was extremely close, so people focused on that. Last time we fought and we lost 5-0, people were mocking us, it's all circumstancial at the end of the day.

About the fans - It's really a article from a fan written for the fans. Ever since barcelona started their hegemony, the propaganda has sounded very strongly, and this is something you get from the fans, as if football restarded in the early 2000's, with barcelona having this image of the club that dont buy but train their own kids and that's THE WAY, with them being holier than us all, them being perfect on and off the pitch. So all she did was highlighting just how disgusting the camp nou can be as well, which crashes against the propaganda. The fans complain about the "supposed" racist chants in the bernabeu, but dont say anything about what happens in their own stadium.

Is he treating us as a project? i would think that our team would be full of mercenaries by now, but we are investing on youth, which certainly give more dimension to the project. It's my feeling as a madrid fan that it's a little more than that, as he took on a gargantuan fight to change our structure from the inside.

Mourinho who was called a defensive coach is playing entertaining football as a madrid coach, something Capello never achieved. Sure mourinho has better talent but you get my point. Imo, there is more than enough chances that he actually stick here as opposed to just leaving after winning. In some twisted place of his mind, he must be dreaming about being a repeat UCL champion no? I think he is giving himself the basis to be successful in madrid with chances of repeat.

I dont always look at two situations as the same. With porto, he had to leave, what more was there for him to achieved, a repeat was impossible. With Chelsea, i think he wanted to settle, but got kicked out. With inter, he dumped them after achieving a miracle imo, that team is rotting, and need some juice. Now with Real, i think he is in the same conditions he was in chelsea, and the challenge of beating barcelona is quite unique. Imo, he has that fantasy of matching SAF in the long run by settling in one club, but i dont think it's necessarily with Utd. Just a thought.

Agree with everything you are saying in black as I can understand the Madridista perspective and the years of losses to Barca along with the conflicts involved.


In red: With Porto, he created the same system of youth as you mention yet did not give time to develop them as his departure left a hole in the club as it was rather off-guard.

Chelsea? His goal was Champions league as it was regularly documented after his success he would seek new ventures so no, his plan was not to build a dynasty there.

Inter? Case and point as he pledged his allegiance to the club with illusions of youth and future building yet left due to the treble. Yet did he not think of preserving his team? SAF does that whereas Mou never cares for this.

He will move on from Madrid as his goal is to return to the premier league and then go international.



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Post by Zealous on Sun 21 Aug - 19:42:39

I quite like it when other fans post here. There is a lot of things that happen within the club that people outside don't know about. They make their own assumptions based and what they see and read in the media and judge us based on those assumptions.

The group we have here is more in tune with what is going on inside the club and at youth levels as well. (We even watch the youth teams play)

We have guys like Bill and Nick who regularly read AS/Marca, Sport has his understanding of the game at various levels as well as French media insight. As well with the rest of the guys who find and share things we discuss.

I think it would be nice if other posters are aware of the details we discuss here. Maybe then false assumptions about us would stop.


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