Our Squad

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Helmer on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:01 pm

I also would not move Lallana out of that CM position. I would rather start Origi or Sturridge, or even Ojo in absence of Coutinho. In the absence of Coutinho, we might create very less chances so we need good finishers who can finish with whatever limited chaces they get served.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:51 pm

Sadio Mané: 7+0 (assist 7)
Divock Origi: 4+3 (assist 1)
Adam Lallana: 6+0 (assist 6)
Roberto Firmino: 5+1 (assist 6)
Philippe Coutinho: 5+1 (assist 6)
James Milner: 5+0 (assist 2)
Emre Can: 3+0 (assist 2)
Daniel Sturridge: 0+2 (assist 2)
Dejan Lovren: 2+0
Joel Matip: 1+0
Jordan Henderson: 1+0 (assist 4)
Georginio Wijnaldum: 1+0 (assist 4)
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:17 am

Stoke (H)
City (H)
Sunderland (A)
United (A)
Swansea (H)
Chelsea (H)
Hull (A)
Spurs (H)
Leicester (A)
Arsenal (H)
Burnley (H)
City (A)

Next few months in the league we are essentially alternating between an winnable fixture followed by a difficult top team. The good thing is all the difficult top teams are at home except the trip to two Manchester clubs.

If we do well here our run in schedule is very very favorable.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 am

@Don't call me James wrote:Stoke (H)
City (H)
Sunderland (A)
United (A)
Swansea (H)
Chelsea (H)
Hull (A)
Spurs (H)
Leicester (A)
Arsenal (H)
Burnley (H)
City (A)

Next few months in the league we are essentially alternating between an winnable fixture followed by a difficult top team. The good thing is all the difficult top teams are at home except the trip to two Manchester clubs.

If we do well here our run in schedule is very very favorable.
I think Mane would be available for first three of those fixtures (AFCON starts on Jan 14). Hopefully Coutinho would be back by the time we face ManU on Jan 15.
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Nishankly on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:02 am

Coutinho should make the bench against City, Ifty.

I'm a bit worried, A big game every alternate week. Bring it on though.
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:10 am

At home I can see us doing very well agains the top sides.

My biggest worry is injuries. If we have our core group of important players all available to play every game I think we'll catch Chelsea quite easily if not pass them.

The core group for me consists of Coutinho, Matip, Mane, Lallana, Firmino, Origi, Sturridge, Can, Wijnaldum, Milner, Clyne, Hendo.

Lovren/Klavan and Migs/Karius really as long as one is available from each pair we'll be good.

If these guys are all healthy and available we can easily win the winnable matches and compete in the top matches and even be favored.

We already know Coutinho will miss the next few at least. And Mane will miss 4-5 in the middle so already a bummer. But hopefully we can strengthen properly in attack to give us that boost.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:15 am

What worries me is the congestion. We will be playing 12 games in 52 days. Depth/youth players (Gomez, Moreno, Lucas, Gjuric, Sturridge etc.) really have to step-in and deliver.
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:20 am

Congestion is really not a problem since we don't have Europe and our players haven't played as many games as their counterparts in other top teams. These are very fit professionals whose body's are prepared to handle this sort of wear and tear.

We're going to be playing our youth and reserves in FA Cup early round for sure anyways.

3 days in between each game on average is perfectly enough time to recuperate.

The only thing is EFL Cup semis. Realistically we'll play a strong team but hopefully we can kill off the entire tie in the first leg so reserves can play the second leg.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:27 am

Do you think Jon Flanagan or Martin Kelly would have been a better back-up than Alberto Moreno???
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Curtinho on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Yes. I like Flanno infinitely more than Moreno tbh

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Red Alert on Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:36 am

We desperately lack quality in depth. Signing a LB to rotate with Milner, someone in the final third to break the lines when Mane needs a break / is at AFCON / isn't playing, and a holding midfielder to push Henderson forward is needed imo.

If Sakho and Klopp can't kiss and make up get rid of him already and sign a quality CB. Klavan and Lovren should be no where near our starting XI for long appearances.

Also, stop playing Can and Wijnaldum in the midfield. They do not compliment each other... like at all. On the ball, off the ball, it's just disgusting to watch them function together. Desperately need to sign a midfielder this summer, hopefully someone to play as an anchor so we can push Henderson more advanced. The amount of times people run pass him is 34 year old Gerrard-esque and he's not really dominating the midfield from deep.

Can / Wijnaldum offer nothing at all defensively and very very very little offensively. I've never been Wijnaldum's fan, and apart from his City goal, I see no difference he's made to our midfield compared to say Joe Allen. Who was deemed not good enough and shipped off... for almost half the fee of Wijnaldum. Laughing

Migs/Karius
Clyne Matip Sakho* LB/Milner
Anchor
Henderson Lallana
Mane ---------- Coutinho
Firmino

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Nishankly on Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:50 pm

Mane's coming back home.
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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:41 am

@Nishankly wrote:Mane's coming back home.
That was never the (whole) problem. What if now Firmino has fatigue???
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Nishankly on Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:59 pm

Sell Can, Buy a DM. Move Henderson ahead of the half line. Im done our better players being sacrificed because of our ineptness in the transfer market.
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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:59 pm

There's a international break in February, right??? Awesome cheers . Aside the additional fatigue we can have couple of injuries too. Who would do the honors??? Firmino and Clyne perhaps hmm .
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Curtinho on Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Henderson is fine in his role now.

Can needs to go, we need to have a real goalscorer who will get in the box, is clinical and will cause havoc against teams that defend us deep and we probably need a proper leftback.

That said all of that won't matter if Klopp doesn't learn to adjust to teams that defend deep and hit us on the counter. It's not a new problem for him and it's been persistent since he joined. Yes he's charismatic and yes he's a big game hero but we're not going anywhere flopping against mid table and bottom table teams. I think he'll probably be a great manager for the CL/EL (though again, his recent cup results aren't overly encouraging) but he's got to get there.

Hoping he can make the necessary adjustments.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:10 pm

GK: Mignolet, Karius, Ward
RWB: Clyne, TAA, Flanagan
LWB: Robertson, Milner, Moreno
CB: Matip, Lovren, Gomez, Klavan
DM: Henderson
CM: Coutinho, Emre, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Gjuric
FW: Mane, Salah, Firmino
ST: Sturridge, Solanki, Origi, Ings

Bold: Starter or starting quality
Italics: Strong contender/backup
Rest: Untested/fringe depth
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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:52 pm


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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:55 am

GK: Mignolet/Karius, Ward
RWB: Clyne, TAA, Flanagan
LWB: Robertson, Moreno
CB: Matip, Lovren, Gomez, Klavan
DM: Henderson
CM: Coutinho, Emre, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Gjuric, Milner
FW: Mane, Salah, Firmino
ST: Sturridge, Solanki, Origi, Ings

Bold: Starter or starting quality
Italics: Rotation/backup
Rest: Kick them OUT

We don't have 11 starting quality players. Shocked :whistle:
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Re: Our Squad

Post by donttreadonred on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:41 pm

@iftikhar wrote:GK: Mignolet/Karius, Ward
RWB: Clyne, TAA, Flanagan
LWB: Robertson, Moreno
CB: Matip, Lovren, Gomez, Klavan
DM: Henderson
CM: Coutinho, Emre, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Gjuric, Milner
FW: Mane, Salah, Firmino
ST: Sturridge, Solanki, Origi, Ings

Bold: Starter or starting quality
Italics: Rotation/backup
Rest: Kick them OUT

We don't have 11 starting quality players. Shocked :whistle:
GK: I actually think we've seen mignolet revert to form a bit this season.
He's not been the same keeper he was in the run-in last year. I'd Keep Karius and Ward,
and look to off-load Mignolet. At the very least, we need to give Karius a run of games to truly see what we have on our hands and if we actually need a starting keeper in the summer.

RB: I'm not sure how easy it will be for Clyne to get his spot back once he returns from injury. TAA and Gomez have been solid in his absence, with Gomez being the better option of late. Strangely (or maybe not so strangely), Gomez has offered the greater tactical flexibility of late, with his ability to either push on or sit back into a make-shift back three when in possession. Perhaps this is something Klopp looks to do more, going forward.

LWB: Other than games in which we've played Sevilla, Moreno has been quality for Klopp. The hate for this guy is quite unreal. I'm not sure why we haven't seen more of Robertson, as he looked good in his early appearances. It's possible Moreno's form has simply kept him out.

CB: I'm not convinced we have one 'League-winning" level starting CB on our squad, at the moment. Matip is closest, and he's shown his flaws as of late. Klavan is a solid squad player, but his age (and lack of place) will limit his shelf-life in the PL. Gomez looks to be braking into the squad at RB, but his future is certainly at CB. That said, it's still very much "future". Lovren... Well, he just needs to go. I think he's a decent footballer, but he's not a good defender. He makes too many mistakes, he's too soft in the tackle, and he's too mentally fragile.

DM (#6): Emre Can in our best DM. Now, depending on his contract situation, I can understand why he might not be selected. Henderson is next in line, but more from lack of options than anything else.

CM (#Cool: The CM / #8 / B2B position should be spoken for after this season. Dependent on the rest of the squad (i.e. departures and incomings), Keita will take this role come next season. For now, Gini is the best option we have. Though, Can's abilities often see him played here. The unfortunate side-effect of that move is that we then usually do not field a player in the more advanced CAM role. Milner can fill in, and this is likely where Henderson should be playing.

CAM (#10): Coutinho is obviously the best player at this role (though, I still believe he will leave in the summer). Behind him, however, is a dearth of quality options. For all the pining for Lallana that has gone on this season, he plays the role in a limited capacity. His responsibilities are generally curtailed to off-the-ball work and being the 4th-5th option in attack. Creating and dictating are stripped and given to others, which severely limits a CAM's effectiveness. Beyond Lallana, there's really only Grujic, and he's likely to head out on loan in Jan (another rant/discussion topic there in itself).

FW: I think the forward line speaks for itself. Mane, Firmino, and Salah are an incredible combination. There are only two decisions that need be made here:
1) How high a priority is it to invest in cover beyond Ox and several of our youngsters?
2) Do you play them in a front 3, or as the 3 behind a more traditional striker?

ST: Sturridge hasn't been the same since his injuries. He's a quality option as rotation or off the bench, but I would not trust him with leading the line on his own, anymore (and it hurts me to say this). Despite flashes of real talent, Solanke is far too raw to carry the starting mantle on his own. There are questions over Origi's long-term future at the club. I still think he has talent, but I'm not willing to trust him with leading the line without some suggestion that he's capable of doing it.

Given this assessment, the areas of need appear to be as follows:
GK (depending on Karius' performances)
CB (likely 2 of starting quality)
DM (should Can fail to extend)
CAM (should Coutinho leave)
ST (if we are looking to utilize a formation with a true striker)

That's an unfortunately long list, and what's more unfortunate is that several of them are dependent on factors outside of Klopp or the club's control.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Red Alert on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:29 am

@donttreadonred wrote:

Given this assessment, the areas of need appear to be as follows:
GK (depending on Karius' performances)
CB (likely 2 of starting quality)
DM (should Can fail to extend)
CAM (should Coutinho leave)
ST (if we are looking to utilize a formation with a true striker)


To be honest, I don't know.

I wouldn't mind throwing Karius in. I've lost patience with Mignolet. Every time he takes a step forward he takes two steps back. He's been here for long enough with little improvement. And to be fair to him, he has been used as a scapegoat at times, but he still hasn't done enough. His brain fades have cost us quite a bit. He shows no leadership in defence, and seems to be weak mentally.

Our "midfield duo" is just as weak as our defence IMO.

Henderson has not been the same player since his injury. He may be a "leader" off the pitch but he has no authority on the pitch. AND he's not performing well at all.

Emre Can is starting to believe he's better than he is instead of doing his role. He's really starting to frustrate me. He keeps trying to be the hero and carry the team instead of doing what's asked of him. He tries to do way too much because he has no trust in the players around him leaving him out of position. Reminds me of Coutinho a couple seasons ago.
Also Liverpool fans piss me off. He DOES have talent. He IS good. Losing him will be a massive loss for us. Just because he's soon to be leaving does not mean he's not good enough for the club. The likes of Juventus and CL teams would not be interested in him if he wasn't good. Stop being bitter. (Not directed at you DTOR)

Wijnaldum is not that good. He's literally a squad player ala Lovren. They are not good enough to be consistent starting players.

It seems like age has finally caught up to Hames Milner. He should get games given our tight schedule, but he really should be phased out soon. Is on massive wages and doesn't really have much of an impact anymore.

Grujic lacks experience and really hasn't shown much in training if he can't get a sniff in. I think his agent just said he's looking to move to an English side to go out on loan, that could do him a world of good.

We really are missing an anchor. We should be looking for a player to partner Keita in midfield for next season. Someone to shield the defence and give us some steel in midfield. Someone to slow down the tempo when we're getting overrun.

Coutinho and Lallana are solid enough for the advanced role. I've been impressed with the Ox centrally aswell but I still see him as a winger.

I also disagree with you on needing a striker. Bobby Firmino is a beast. He's essentially a false 9 for us and is the sole reason why Salah and Mane shine as "inside forwards" if you will. Solanke and Daniel Son are solid back ups for us.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by donttreadonred on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:13 pm

I'd agree on the overall assessment of our midfield, but I'd actually put that down to Klopp's selection and seeming need to play certain players.

First off, Emre Can is the best CM at the club. Losing him (as it appears we will in the summer) will certainly be a huge loss. The man can literally play any of CB, FB, DM, CM, and even CAM, and has been the best player in our midfield over the last month or so (and yes, that includes Coutinho - more on this later). At the moment, it simply looks like Klopp is using him sparingly until his future is decided, which may simply push him closer to the exit.

Henderson is a squad player at best, and really isn't suited to the #6 role. Moreover, the armband appears to weigh him down. There's no leadership, there. The problem is that I'm not sure there's a better option at the club right now.

Wijnaldum is a great option to have in the squad. While I agree he's not a world-beater, comparing him to Lovren is just mean. The guy has been one of our most consistent midfield players this season, carrying the water for both Phil and Henderson. Ideally, we'd want a better player as first choice. That said, we have that player coming in Naby Keita.

I agree on Milner needing to be phased out. Having him as emergency cover is one thing, but he should have no place in the squad after this season.

Grujic needs to play, and he needs to do it in England. If he won't get games with us, he needs the loan he's been discussing.

Coutinho's performances haven't been great this season. He seems disinterested, and is neglecting the defensive side of the game in ways he didn't previously, even when playing in a more advanced role. I personally think he's halfway out the door already.

Lallana's a limited player that, like Henderson, should be relegated to a squad/rotational role going forward.

Like you said, we need to find a partner for Keita (again, if Can is leaving). Though, I disagree that we'll go for an "anchor" type player. I think it's more likely that we'll get another Keita/Can type. Klopp seems to see his 6 and 8 roles splitting defensive duties, without assigning one to be purely defensive or drop between the CBs. In that, I think Goretzka could be a wonderful addition.

As for Firmino, he's wonderful! I'm not trying to say otherwise. My point was that we need to get a pure striker IF we're looking to transition to a system that utilizes a pure #9, like the 4222/4231 that we've seen recently against Stoke and West Ham. In this setup, Firmino would just be better suited to the deeper forward role, which is effectively the same role he plays now with Mane and Firmino.

I think the lineup will look something like this next season:
New ST
Firmino
New CAM----------Mane/Salah
New CM---Keita

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Red Alert on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 am

We'll agree to disagree on Wij.

He's a passenger, he does absolutely nothing to change the influence of the game and constantly goes in hiding when we need someone to step up.

Decent squad player to have considering his ability to play in different roles / as squad depth but at the end of the day he's a jack of all trades master of none...

On Lallana, I can't agree with him being a limited player. He was very very bad under Rodgers (then again, who wasn't????) but he's shown to be very very solid under Klopp. His constant work rate / pressure acts / always wanting to go forward is massive for us. I do agree that he should be a rotational role under Coutinho, with that said.

I really do hope we can hold on to Can but I do feel like he's leaving. Hopefully we can wrap it all up by Christmas? :whistle:

We might not get an "anchor" but I really hope we can find a destroyer. I really do miss seeing them in the PL. Mascherano used to be my favourite player back in the day, I loved watching him play.

What are your thoughts on Solanke? I actually really don't mind him and rate him over Origi. Laughing
I do feel like he's stolen Sturridge's backup role aswell. Let's hope he can develop because he's a really good talent.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by iftikhar on Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:13 pm

Striker/#9: I very much doubt Klopp has any tactical plan that uses a Striker/#9. If he has, then Sturridge and Ings is enough to fill the role. We don't need another Striker/#9, Sturridge and Ings need more games in an appropriate setup.

I believe what Klopp fancies (and hence needs) is more players in the mold of Mane, Salah & Firmino.

DM/Anchor: I very much doubt Klopp prefers a pure DM/Anchor. I believe Klopp fancies players who have the energy to cover lots of ground and the technical abilities to not only to breakdown opposition move but also to initiate counter.

In Naby Keïta he may have spotted one, but that's hardly enough if we want to be really, really competitive next season. Leon Goretzka is a very tempting option as they can not only be rotated but also be deployed together.

Central Defense: ***sigh***

I think a new CB (let it be a really good one), Matip and Gomez will shoulder most of the workload next season. Lovren might stay and will provide depth with Klavan starring the role of Toure in his last season.

Despite his limitation Lovren will be a good option to have for 15 games including the Cup games.

2018/19 may look somewhat like this:

Karius
Ward
Clyne Matip New CB Robertson/Moreno
Joe/TAA Joe Lovren Robertson/Moreno
Keita
Henderson/Emre
Goretzka Coutinho
Lallana/Henderson/Wijnaldum/Emre
Salah Firmino Mane
AOC New CF Woodburn
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Re: Our Squad

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:24 pm

A two man midfield of Goretzka and Keita is not a workable proposition.

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Re: Our Squad

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:27 pm

Also, since he's been absent for so long, we've forgotten how brilliant Lallana was performing under Klopp. He was basically Liverpool's best player during the first half of last season, when you were still in the title race. Then he got overplayed and ultimately injured.

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