Mesut Ozil discussion

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:55 am

Yohan Modric wrote:It's just one way of looking at it. Based on Perez's character, history and previous transfers, I wouldn't put it past him to do all of that. He doesn't fully look at the footballing side of things in terms of transfers.
Right.....so now you're guessing and poorly at that.

Seriously if you don't think Bale is a good fit for this team and doesn't solve a number of issues we had last year then you simply can not be helped.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by sportsczy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:03 pm

You gain and lose with Ozil's departure and Bale's arrival.

You gain:
-  Another proven scorer and big game player
-  Better wing play
-  Speed
-  Slightly better defense theoretically Laughing

You lose:
-  Creative playmaking
-  General passing
-  Technical ability

Since we bought Isco... i think Ozil was actually going to really compete with Isco, not Bale.  Given how Isco is playing, i doubt Ozil beats him out at this point.  Di Maria is the one competing with Bale.

Also, Bale or Di Maria are much, much better RW options than Ozil.

Finally, when Di Maria is on, he's right behind Ribery as the best true winger n the world imo.  But he's so frakkin inconsistent.  As far as talent goes, i think he's superior to Bale.  Maybe Bale's arrival pushes Di Maria to become the goat player he can be on a consistent basis... but will Carlo have the nerve to prefer Di Maria over Bale?  I don't know...

As far as comparing this year to last year... you really can't. Tactics are completely different and the manager as well. Did we really need Bale? No. But if we didn't buy Bale, we would have needed another scorer. Right now, if one of CR7, Bale or Benzema get injured, we still have 2 scorers. But if Ozil was here instead of Bale, we only had 2 proven scorers on the squad and that wouldn't have been enough.

I understand that move from a squad balance standpoint.

And btw, Illaramendi is not a DM imo. He's a CM... so as far as depth cover for Isco, i think it's Modric with Illaremendi dropping into Modric' current role. We would then become a 433 team rather than our current 4222.


Last edited by sportsczy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:05 pm

Di Maria has superior talent than Bale ? Just because he dribbles better...
There are 3 or 4 players in the world who have the ability to change and win matches on their own, and Bale is one of them.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:17 pm

There are 0 players in the world who have the ability to win matches on their own. There are plenty who can change them.

I totally understand what you're saying Sports - but I still think Bale creates spacing issues and just doesn't fit into a good team structure.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:54 pm

@Le Samourai wrote:There are 0 players in the world who have the ability to win matches on their own. There are plenty who can change them.

I totally understand what you're saying Sports - but I still think Bale creates spacing issues and just doesn't fit into a good team structure.
Messi, Ronaldo and Bale can all win games on their own and have done so.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by sportsczy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:23 pm

I think the opposite tbh.  Once Bale gets comfortable, he will attack both the right corner flag AND cut in as well.  That's where we've been largely horrible for a while... we're so left-side oriented and the guys we put on the right a) don't belong there and b) have no right foot to speak of in some cases.  So the opposing defense doesn't have to defend the right corner flag at all. With Bale/Carvajal, they better lol. Bale's stronger foot is his left obviously.  But he's more than capable of making a good cross right-footed.  I've seen it plenty of times.

We need to stretch the pitch horizontally, not just vertically.  You guys saw what Benz and CR7 can do if they have some room to operate.  We get into trouble when it becomes a traffic jam... i think Bale allows us to be more dangerous.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by sportsczy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:39 pm

@Crimson wrote:
@Le Samourai wrote:There are 0 players in the world who have the ability to win matches on their own. There are plenty who can change them.

I totally understand what you're saying Sports - but I still think Bale creates spacing issues and just doesn't fit into a good team structure.
Messi, Ronaldo and Bale can all win games on their own and have done so.
You can add Ibra, RVP and Rooney (for England recently) to that list. Neymar for Brazil too.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Le Samourai on Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:49 pm

They have won 0 games on their own? Have they changed games? Yes. Do they do it more frequently than most? Sure. Are they put in the best position to do it by their teammates? Yes.
It's either they don't win games by themselves, or the club is not nearly as exclusive as you want it to me. Pick one, doesn't matter to me.


I think him crossing is relatively pointless. To me, Carvajal gives us that option on the right, but when Bale cuts in we're just going to become cluttered through the centre. If it was someone like Sanchez (at Udinese) who had a right foot and frequently went at fullbacks in addition to providing a scoring option, I'd be more enthusiastic.

While someone like Sanchez positions himself far right when he doesn't have the ball, and someone who can do a myriad of things with the ball on his right foot. Bale usually positions himself more inside, and can only do one thing when he does the kick and run outside the defender - cross. It might be a good cross - it'll also be a predictable one.

When you have 2 forwards, you force Ronaldo to come inside, take a few less touches, give him less chances to distort the play.

The sole advantage I really see is in terms of weak side play. We have triple threats on both sides of the box, so when one cuts in and the defense focuses, it should be fairly easy to pass across and get the other player space.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by sportsczy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm

I disagree strongly... and i was a defender.  for CB, you don't need to go and help most often if it's just one player on the right, whether it's an overlapping fullback or a winger.  You can peak there, but you can pretty much stay at your position.  When you have both a fullback and a winger going at an edge, you need two players to cover... either it's going to be a fullback and a midfielder/winger tracking back, or a CB and a fullback.  Midfielders/wingers are typically not the greatest defensive players and they are often trailing the play tracking back... so the CB can't just peak.  He actually has to adjust his position to be able to cover the situations.

It destabilizes the entire defensive shape.  All you need to do is look at how Bayern and Man U operate.  They send two players to each corner flag...  In fact, in Bundi, it's the most widely used tactic.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Onyx on Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:42 pm

On paper it might seem like a good idea having 2 match winners, however they could easily clash. Also the way in which Bale was a match winner has to be looked at. He did it for one season and in a predictable way. It might seem astonishing Bale is a match winner just because he's supposedly not a CF. However it has to be remembered CF's can easily be match winners. So I don't think there's anything extraordinary about Bale. Would he make the same impact he had at Spurs? I doubt it. If so how well would he do? Around 10-15 goals this season. But wouldn't any decent attacker manage that? Callejon did it as a sub. It needs to be remembered that Ronaldo is on this team. So even though the attack might not be built around him like previous seasons, in a way it still will be, as he's the main source of goals.

Having someone who affects the match in a different way might be a better idea.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:28 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:On paper it might seem like a good idea having 2 match winners, however they could easily clash. Also the way in which Bale was a match winner has to be looked at. He did it for one season and in a predictable way. It might seem astonishing Bale is a match winner just because he's supposedly not a CF. However it has to be remembered CF's can easily be match winners. So I don't think there's anything extraordinary about Bale. Would he make the same impact he had at Spurs? I doubt it. If so how well would he do? Around 10-15 goals this season. But wouldn't any decent attacker manage that? Callejon did it as a sub. It needs to be remembered that Ronaldo is on this team. So even though the attack might not be built around him like previous seasons, in a way it still will be, as he's the main source of goals.

Having someone who affects the match in a different way might be a better idea.
Let's think about it, how would he do learning from the best player in the world, his idol and playing with way better players ?

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Onyx on Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:44 pm

Bale's accepted Ronaldo's the boss at Real Madrid. Because of that, his role might be more limited. Also Spurs' team was built around Bale, so they could get the most out of him. He was a big fish in a small pond.

There's certain players at smaller clubs that would do better at bigger clubs due to having better players around them. However I don't think Bale is one of them. Not saying he won't succeed, however based on those things it kinda makes sense.

Also I think he has to show what he did at Spurs at Real Madrid. Personally I expect Bale to do what he did at Spurs last season if not more. He has to justify he's worth the €100m. I don't really see the fee as a long term investment etc.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Zealous on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:06 am

We're playing a 4-3-3 under Carlo, sadly Ozil doesn't have much of a place in a formation like that based on his defensive abilities.

The Gala match made this clear for me. We're going to have an interchanging front three who look to switch positions and a midfield three who keep a triangle shape and attacking and defend accordingly. We lost a great player in Ozil but if I'm honest I think we replaced him well enough.

Bale is going to get a great chance to show his ability in an interchanging front line.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:32 pm

*bleep* all that Bale talk. Arsenal are undefeated with Ozil and is at the top of the PL.


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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:32 am

@3lite wrote:*bleep* all that Bale talk. Arsenal are undefeated with Ozil and is at the top of the PL.

lmfao he has played 2 out of their 5 games, get a grip ffs.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:34 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:*bleep* all that Bale talk. Arsenal are undefeated with Ozil and is at the top of the PL.

lmfao he has played 2 out of their 5 games, get a grip ffs.
2-0 in PL

1-0 in CL

Can only play what's on the schedule.

Meanwhile...


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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:36 am

@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:*bleep* all that Bale talk. Arsenal are undefeated with Ozil and is at the top of the PL.

lmfao he has played 2 out of their 5 games, get a grip ffs.
2-0 in PL

1-0 in CL

Can only play what's on the schedule.

Meanwhile...

Meanwhile what?

We have had one of the best starts in LigaBBVA history, better than any start under Mourinho, in our first UCL game we broke our own record for biggest UCL away win in our clubs history.

Get a *bleep* grip, Ozil is gone and amazingly we seem better for it.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:38 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:lmfao he has played 2 out of their 5 games, get a grip ffs.
2-0 in PL

1-0 in CL

Can only play what's on the schedule.

Meanwhile...

Meanwhile what?

We have had one of the best starts in LigaBBVA history, better than any start under Mourinho, in our first UCL game we broke our own record for biggest UCL away win in our clubs history.

Get a *bleep* grip, Ozil is gone and amazingly we seem better for it.
Are you retarded? The discussion is about Ozil and to a lesser extent, Bale. What are you even on about? What does Bale have to do with your hot start?

Edit: Lmao yeah great UCL win that Galatarsay team is like 1/4 of your payroll.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:42 am

@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:2-0 in PL

1-0 in CL

Can only play what's on the schedule.

Meanwhile...

Meanwhile what?

We have had one of the best starts in LigaBBVA history, better than any start under Mourinho, in our first UCL game we broke our own record for biggest UCL away win in our clubs history.

Get a *bleep* grip, Ozil is gone and amazingly we seem better for it.
Are you retarded? The discussion is about Ozil and to a lesser extent, Bale. What are you even on about? What does Bale have to do with your hot start?

Edit: Lmao yeah great UCL win that Galatarsay team is like 1/4 of your payroll.
We have faced shit teams plenty of times before and never won by as much, even with Ozil.

Ozil is no longer a Real Madrid player, so who gives a *bleep*.

Bale did not replace Ozil, if you are to stupid to realise that then I'm sorry I can not help you.

Isco is performing better than Ozil ever has for us.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:46 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:Meanwhile what?

We have had one of the best starts in LigaBBVA history, better than any start under Mourinho, in our first UCL game we broke our own record for biggest UCL away win in our clubs history.

Get a *bleep* grip, Ozil is gone and amazingly we seem better for it.
Are you retarded? The discussion is about Ozil and to a lesser extent, Bale. What are you even on about? What does Bale have to do with your hot start?

Edit: Lmao yeah great UCL win that Galatarsay team is like 1/4 of your payroll.
We have faced shit teams plenty of times before and never won by as much, even with Ozil.

Ozil is no longer a Real Madrid player, so who gives a *bleep*.

Bale did not replace Ozil, if you are to stupid to realise that then I'm sorry I can not help you.

Isco is performing better than Ozil ever has for us.
Doesn't matter moron, the entire thread is about Ozil and Bale. Nobody is even mentioning Isco.

Matter of fact,

What has Isco done for Madrid? Come back to this topic when Isco has even a 1/4 of the achievement Ozil has with RM.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:16 am

@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:Are you retarded? The discussion is about Ozil and to a lesser extent, Bale. What are you even on about? What does Bale have to do with your hot start?

Edit: Lmao yeah great UCL win that Galatarsay team is like 1/4 of your payroll.
We have faced shit teams plenty of times before and never won by as much, even with Ozil.

Ozil is no longer a Real Madrid player, so who gives a *bleep*.

Bale did not replace Ozil, if you are to stupid to realise that then I'm sorry I can not help you.

Isco is performing better than Ozil ever has for us.
Doesn't matter moron, the entire thread is about Ozil and Bale. Nobody is even mentioning Isco.

Matter of fact,

What has Isco done for Madrid? Come back to this topic when Isco has even a 1/4 of the achievement Ozil has with RM.
What exactly did Ozil do? Tell me? Did he put on MoM performances on the way to helping us win La Decima?

Was he the sole reason we won La Liga? Would we have won it without him? Most likely.

What else has he done that has endowed him as a Real Madrid legend?

He was a great player but went missing a lot of the time and wasn't consistent, he will never be a Madrid legend, he is simply just another player.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:24 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:We have faced shit teams plenty of times before and never won by as much, even with Ozil.

Ozil is no longer a Real Madrid player, so who gives a *bleep*.

Bale did not replace Ozil, if you are to stupid to realise that then I'm sorry I can not help you.

Isco is performing better than Ozil ever has for us.
Doesn't matter moron, the entire thread is about Ozil and Bale. Nobody is even mentioning Isco.

Matter of fact,

What has Isco done for Madrid? Come back to this topic when Isco has even a 1/4 of the achievement Ozil has with RM.
What exactly did Ozil do? Tell me? Did he put on MoM performances on the way to helping us win La Decima?

Was he the sole reason we won La Liga? Would we have won it without him? Most likely.

What else has he done that has endowed him as a Real Madrid legend?

He was a great player but went missing a lot of the time and wasn't consistent, he will never be a Madrid legend, he is simply just another player.
Winning La Liga without Ozil? Are you mad? You think Kaka would have created all of those chances? La Decima was lost when Ronaldo choked the penalty vs. Bayern.


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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:39 am

@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:Doesn't matter moron, the entire thread is about Ozil and Bale. Nobody is even mentioning Isco.

Matter of fact,

What has Isco done for Madrid? Come back to this topic when Isco has even a 1/4 of the achievement Ozil has with RM.
What exactly did Ozil do? Tell me? Did he put on MoM performances on the way to helping us win La Decima?

Was he the sole reason we won La Liga? Would we have won it without him? Most likely.

What else has he done that has endowed him as a Real Madrid legend?

He was a great player but went missing a lot of the time and wasn't consistent, he will never be a Madrid legend, he is simply just another player.
Winning La Liga without Ozil? Are you mad? You think Kaka would have created all of those chances? La Decima was lost when Ronaldo choked the penalty vs. Bayern.

Yes because Ozil had played so well......

And yes we would have, we can and have performed brilliantly without Ozil. Go check the history.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:42 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:What exactly did Ozil do? Tell me? Did he put on MoM performances on the way to helping us win La Decima?

Was he the sole reason we won La Liga? Would we have won it without him? Most likely.

What else has he done that has endowed him as a Real Madrid legend?

He was a great player but went missing a lot of the time and wasn't consistent, he will never be a Madrid legend, he is simply just another player.
Winning La Liga without Ozil? Are you mad? You think Kaka would have created all of those chances? La Decima was lost when Ronaldo choked the penalty vs. Bayern.

Yes because Ozil had played so well......

And yes we would have, we can and have performed brilliantly without Ozil. Go check the history.
Lets see... you guys got knocked out by Lyon in CL. That is the only year in CR7 era without Ozil.

So what history are you referring to?

Please tell me who would have made of all of those chances and assist if you subtracted Ozil from all those years?

Next.

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by Crimson on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:48 am

@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:Winning La Liga without Ozil? Are you mad? You think Kaka would have created all of those chances? La Decima was lost when Ronaldo choked the penalty vs. Bayern.

Yes because Ozil had played so well......

And yes we would have, we can and have performed brilliantly without Ozil. Go check the history.
Lets see... you guys got knocked out by Lyon in CL. That is the only year in CR7 era without Ozil.

So what history are you referring to?

Please tell me who would have made of all of those chances and assist if you subtracted Ozil from all those years?

Next.
I was referring to the times Ozil did not play under Mourinho, go have a look at the games, we performed well.

Ozil simply is not as good a player as you make out. Go have a cry and go back to supporting whichever team it is that you follow. NFI what your obsession with Ozil and Real Madrid is lmao

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Re: Mesut Ozil discussion

Post by 3lite on Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:52 am

@Crimson wrote:
@3lite wrote:
@Crimson wrote:Yes because Ozil had played so well......

And yes we would have, we can and have performed brilliantly without Ozil. Go check the history.
Lets see... you guys got knocked out by Lyon in CL. That is the only year in CR7 era without Ozil.

So what history are you referring to?

Please tell me who would have made of all of those chances and assist if you subtracted Ozil from all those years?

Next.
I was referring to the times Ozil did not play under Mourinho, go have a look at the games, we performed well.

Ozil simply is not as good a player as you make out. Go have a cry and go back to supporting whichever team it is that you follow. NFI what your obsession with Ozil and Real Madrid is lmao
That's a moronic example to use. Lets look at all of their games without Ronaldo, surely they performed well as well. *derp*

Obsession? I made a simple statement and a mentally challenged kid comes along and drops his panties.

Just save face and exit this topic with grace; clown.

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