Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

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Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:19 pm

Next saturday early kick off. Very excited, win this and we've had a great start heading to United game. No doubt they'll raise their game against us.

First name on the team sheet, even ahead of Reina:








Players WHO MUST START:
Reina
Kelly
Carragher
Skrtel
Enrique
Lucas
Suarez
Kuyt

Other Dilemmas:
Downing or Bellamy ?
Bellamy or Carroll ?
Spearing or Adam ?

Can Gerrard get a surprising start ?

We need c*nts on the pitch for this game, fighters, no one can hide there. I'd love Bellamy starting, but it means either Downing/Carroll on the bench which would be unfair since both very really good yesterday. Kuyt for Henderson without a doubt.

About Adam. He adds offensively, but I really dread him being sent off in this kind of game. Playing Jay should definitely be considered, it's not like we haven't played offensive football with Jay-Lucas partnership.

and we'll be doomed if we are as deep as we were yesterday. They have no fast strikers (assuming Saha doesn't start), and we can't sit deep welcoming Baines' crosses on heads of Cahill/Fellaini.


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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Art Morte on Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:42 pm

Kuuuuuuuuuuuuuyt get iiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnn!!!

Damn I'm looking forward to this one!

I'd start Kuyt over Hendo and either Adam or Spearing in the middle, other than that I'd go with those who started against Wolverhampton.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Don't call me James on Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:52 pm

Whenever i think of Everton, I think of that amazing Torres backheel pass to Gerrard and Stevie scoring

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by iftikhar on Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:04 pm

---------------Reina---------------
Kelly-Carragher-Skrtel-Enrique
--------Lucas---Spearing--------
Kuyt----------------------Downing
--------------Suarez--------------
--------------Carroll---------------
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:14 am

Why should spearing start? . We cant be scared to start him cuz he could potentially get a red card, and he's miles better than spearing.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:00 am

ragbirjosh wrote:Why should spearing start? . We cant be scared to start him cuz he could potentially get a red card, and he's miles better than spearing.


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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:17 am

LOL...............

I get the point altho i'm not sure that gif explained alot

I think he's miles better tho.....spearing's played like 10 professional games, while Adam has absolutely beasted at Blackpool for a couple years now.......

that gif has made me so entirely unsure wether or not ur serious it's not even funny.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by RedOranje on Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:07 am

ragbirjosh wrote:Why should spearing start? . We cant be scared to start him cuz he could potentially get a red card, and he's miles better than spearing.

ragbirjosh wrote:LOL...............

I get the point altho i'm not sure that gif explained alot

I think he's miles better tho.....spearing's played like 10 professional games, while Adam has absolutely beasted at Blackpool for a couple years now.......

that gif has made me so entirely unsure wether or not ur serious it's not even funny.
Last year (and the season before, in the Championship not that that counts for much), not a couple of years. And Adam was never a real CM for them, he was always more of a CAM with a free roaming role while for us he needs to be more disciplined and stick to his CM position. As it is he's leaving Lucas alone to cover the entire midfield at times and that means our defense gets exposed when he [Lucas] is also tasked with covering our fullbacks as they get forward. Spearing has shown himself to be a more than capable workhorse CM who will not only help Lucas cover space but will also tirelessly harass the opponents when they are on the ball, which is something we will need in a physical and testy derby match. Adam has added to our attack, certainly but at the expense of our past solidity in midfield. That may be well and fine at home against the teams that would otherwise be difficult to break down but against the better sides, especially away from home, we will need to be solid in CM, especially as Carra's lack of pace means we must play a much deeper defensive line than we might otherwise wish to employ.

Adam isn't THAT much better than Spearing overall either, IMO. I still think he's probably one of the more overrated midfielders in the PL.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:12 am

Well you guys rate spearing , higher than me , maybe rightfully so , I havent watched him that much.

At any rate, henderson could probably do a decent box to box job in the cm role.

Adam isn't a great tackler , but for me he contributes to defence in his own way with his ability to control the tempo and passing, which I think is an overlooked part of defence.

This game may get testy tho so he might not be given much of a chance to do that.

IMO any of Adam,Gerrard,Henderson,possibly even shelvey>Spearing at cm.That may be unfair to him tho since I haven't seen that much.


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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by BeautifulGame on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:51 am

I would go with Adam over Spearing.I dont think Adam is a defensive liability he just had a poor game vs Spurs.Against Wolves most of their attacks came through RW where Kelly was struggling often against Jarvis not through Center.

He did a decent job against Arsenal and hopefully he can do it against Everton too atleast until Gerrard returns.But i can see why most prefer Spearing over Adam for derby but i would still go with Adam.


One change i would like is Maxi over Carroll if Gerrard isnt fit.Carroll had a good game against Wolves but think a 5 man midfield with Suarez leading the line would be better than 4-4-2

Also considering Everton's main threat would be from Set pieces perhaps Coates would be a better option than Skrtel.I suppose lack of experience would make it unlikely.



Reina

Kelly Carra Skrtel/Coates Enrique

Lucas Adam

Kuyt Maxi / Carroll/Henderson Downing

Suarez


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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by RedOranje on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:00 am

Adam was poor vs Spurs, against Wolves, and also below his best against Stoke at time.

The problem is, he DOESN'T control the game. He isn't Alonso and does not play in the same style as him. He's simply not the type to dictate play so much as force it going forward.

I would like to see Henderson as a CM/CAM though, I think he has more to offer there than at RM. RAM may work as well, if we had an attacking RB (or one that was fit long enough to step into the side, at least) to give the width there. I think Henderson is more suited to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 than a 4-4-2, in all honesty. I really dislike the 4-4-2 formation in general, though.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Nishankly on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:58 am

TBH

We had our best spells and results last year with the Lucas- Spearing partnership in the mid. Food for thought.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Nishankly on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:07 pm

And i just loved the fact Suarez wants to play with Stevie on the pitch .. He sure was annoyed both times he was subbed for him.. Very Happy
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:28 pm

There are 2 matches in all of EPL that have my BP flowing like the Nile on a storm.

1.Liverpool and United clash
2. The Merseyside freakin derby

Between the 2.... the latter brings much more anxiety to me as I actually wait for the derby to finish and am relieved when it does.

(Why did it have to come now?)

Sepi on his hypothesis is accurate then a Russian sniper in his thoughts.

We do NOT need players who have no concept of physicality in their game and little experience for the derby.
That means:

No Maxi.

No Hendo; He would be even further lost here and does not possess the heart.

No Adam: I disagree with Red on him being overrated, but the point his he has poor athleticism and more of a liability in defense than Pirlo for Milan in his final days. 2 sides of the coin, yes as he can be the X-factor with his orgasmic through balls and crosses, yet he is no Xabi (yet) as Xabi was accurate on the tackle and dictated the tempo for us while Adam is not doing that (YET)

No Johnson: He might not be fit for the clash but he is a liability in defense against physical sides.

We need to field players with balls of steel and ones who understand the symbolism behind the greatest derby of England. The ones who have toiled within the fixture, ones with hearts of lions but experience enough to know the dangers of high temper and its aftermath. More silk then steel.

Carra: Questions on his recent form have plagued the forum yet he was back on form against Brighton and Wolves. What he doesn't possess in pace, he makes up for his focus, physicality, experience, underrated defensive ability, leadership and overall how integral he is to the backline and the rest with his high pitched shouts.

Bellamy: Love this man. He can be our Peter Beardsley (although not at that level) with his superb close control yet strength and fitness levels of an ox. And who can forget his clutch ability. Must start for us and will be vital.

Lucas: Who can forget one of our best big game players and the heart of our midfield with his man marking, distribution and tackles.

Gerrard: No question. We missed his authority and B2B presence.

Kelly: I'm still yet to find a flaw in this man as he possess everything you can ask from him really. He is a locmotive going forward while a rock in the back. "Il futuro Capitano" will understand the dire importance of the derby and will be fueled to start in it. Lets not forget he always performs in big games. His replacement if not fit should be Flanno.

Spearing: I used to think little of this man but under Kenny he has changed my opinion. He obviously knows the importance of the derby but should be in place of Adam simply because of the physical nature requited from the game along with his fitness and excellent reading of the game. I'll go on more on comparisons and choices on why he should start.

Carroll: He'll be emerging from his solid game against Wolves and will be vital to provide the silk and steel, ground and air combination up forward as the Derby is quite aerial at times and his heading threat, strength and thunderous feet can be the difference as I just know he will succeed here.

Kuyt: King.of.the.Merseyside.Derby.

Doni: Unquestionably our best GK and should start without question.



4-2-3-1
Doni
Kelly-Carra-Agger-Jose
Jay-Lucas
Kuyt-Gerrard-Suarez
Carroll(Bellamy)


OR

4-3-1-2

Doni
Kelly-Carra-Agger-Jose

Kuyt--Lucas---Bellamy
Gerrard
Suarez----Carroll

OR


442

Kuyt--Gerrard-Lucas--Bellamy
Suarez--Carroll



You all are probably wondering if Stewie Downing was permanently erased from my head but he is the only player who remains a doubt in my head for this match for reasons following:

1. Stewie usually struggles against physical sides as its hard for him to use his guile and vision against such stifling opponents as then his freedom is compromised and he increasingly tends to drift wider and wider into oblivion.

2. We need more versatility in the side as although Downing is in fact good with his right foot, he does prefer his left as Everton have usually always marked out players who are somewhat limited as Downing can be a liability due to the fact he doesn't have the endurance, physicality or speed to cope in this match.

3. The options we have for this match ahead of him suit him better.

Yes I know he will provide the width, accuracy of passing and crosses as I might just be completely wrong in my statements above, yet this is the reason I left Downing upto your own imagination due to my inability to see whether he would succeed in the derby or not. It would be unfair to bench him after his consistent performances with us but we need more unpredictably and raw power against Everton.

Tactically, I chose Spearing ahead of Adam simply because adam has the defensive capability of tumbleweed. I suppose playing him advanced will give Lucas more room to do his job but the fact is Adam for this match would be needed as CM as he doesn't possess that discipline to do so while Spearing would have the dynamism, endurance and tenacity to win the midfield battle. Thoughts?


I really don't know what everton have in store for us but we have to thank Arsenal for taking their best player in the form of Arteta. Yakubu is also gone as he used to cause us many problems.

Cahill must be marked out by Carra as his aerial threat is world class and has plagued us for years.

Lucas will be our X-factor while Spearing must win his battle with Fellaini.



I suppose a high line will do as it usually works best against Everton as a deep line will allow them to much space.

From the get go we must press them furiously and win over the midfield at all costs.










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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by RedOranje on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:03 pm

So long as you continue to suggest Doni should be starting over Reina I will assume that your posts are either A) drunk or B) simply taking the piss.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by RedOranje on Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Yes, I posted this in the other matchday thread as well, but I would rather copy and paste than half to repeat myself 5 times later.






We have, in our side at any given time, between 2 and 4 attacking players, as well as attacking fullbacks, who can give us creativity and movement without Adam's inclusion. It's not as though Lucas and Spearing are Sissoko's either, both can and will pass the ball around and will make runs... they are just a bit more conservative (and intelligent) about doing so than Adam. Several of our best performances last season were built on the Lucas - Spearing partnership, lest we forget. To add to that, does anyone really see Adam faring well up against the likes of Fellaini, Rodwell, Barkley, and potentially Cahill in midfield? His penchant for stupid tackles and lack of 'bite' would only make him a liability in a derby-day midfield mash.


Let me make something clear, and I fear I may be misunderstood otherwise: I do not dislike Adam. I think he is a good CM and a very good CAM and that he can and will be an effective squad player for us in the next couple of seasons. HOWEVER, that is ALL I feel he should be: a squad player. He is, as a CM, overrated IMHO. He lacks the agility and mobility, as well as the intelligence at times, to effectively play in a 2-man CM partnership against good sides (though I don't much like 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 in such situations at all, but that's another discussion for another time). Adam is the type of player we've lacked in past seasons when we struggled to break down stubborn sides, but he's NOT Alonso nor will he ever be that player for us. He's not going to set the tempo against top sides because they won't give him the time to do so and he's not going to be all that helpful in doing to same to their CM's. Honestly, Adam is a better player than Spearing, but I think Spearing is more suited to the derby.

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Fahim89 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:07 pm

In all honesty this is the side i would love to see . .

Reina

Kelly - Carra - Skrtel - Enrique

Bellamy - Lucas - Adam - Downing

Gerrard

Suarez

A 4-4-1-1 is the least likely but I sort of feel this would be the most aggressive line-up we can put in at this moment . .

Bellamy on the right with Downing on the left or the other way round with Gerrard as the CAM & Suarez up front! ! ! ! ! ! cheers

However, i do feel it would be wise not to pressurize Gerrard in starting so it would very well be Carroll starting & Hendo in place of Bellamy & the rest remaining the same. .
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Nishankly on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:14 pm

Kenny wont rotate most probably Sad
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by iftikhar on Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:51 am

@RedOranje wrote:So long as you continue to suggest Doni should be starting over Reina I will assume that your posts are either A) drunk or B) simply taking the piss.

Yeah man, why!!!

Picking Doni over Reina is like picking RVN over Crew Rolling Eyes
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Nishankly on Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:54 am

I hope he joking Very Happy
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Red Alert on Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:45 am

Nishank wrote:Kenny wont rotate most probably Sad

He will.

Bellamy and Kuyt will both start. I'll tell you that from now.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by BeautifulGame on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:36 pm

ynwa wrote:
Nishank wrote:Kenny wont rotate most probably Sad

He will.

Bellamy and Kuyt will both start. I'll tell you that from now.

I cant see Bellamy starting this match tbh.Would be very surprised if it happens

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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Red Alert on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:11 pm

Bellamy knows what the rivalry is all about. And so does Kuyt.

They both played in the league cup, and and were never going to play 2 full games in the space of 3 days, thus were benched against Wolves.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by iftikhar on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:59 pm

TBH, I would prefer Gerrard & Bellamy to start from the bench. This will be an exhausting (physical & mental) match & both are kind of vulnerable ATM.

I think the trio of Kuyt, Downing & Suarez behind Carroll with Lucas & Jay marshalling as CM is good.

This will mean the likes of Gerrard, Bellamy, Adam & Maxi available for more cutting edge. I think we should ease Gerrard into games. This is a long season and we need SG to achieve our goals.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

Post by Art Morte on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:57 pm

I hear what Ifty's saying, but I'd start Bellamy. Sub him off soon after HT if needed, but I'd like him in all his nastyness get a start here.
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Re: Everton vs Liverpool | Merseyside Derby Round 1

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