Eljero Elia vs. Milos Krasic

by juve_gigi Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:45 pm

So Elia is not being used by Conte because of apparently three major reasons:

1. He does not speak Italian, or Spanish, or any other similar language.

Case in point. Milos Krasic did not speak a word of Italian, or Spanish, or any other similar language, when he arrived at Juve last summer, yet he STARTED in Juve's very first game and also was our best player in the first half of last year along with Quagliarella.

2. He came from a different league and so is needing to be nurtured to familiarize himself with Serie A.

Case in point. Milos Krasic came from Russia, which is a league that is quite different than Serie A in many, many respects. Yet again, Krasic started for Juve last year from the very first game and was our best player along with Quags in the first half of the year.

3. Elia is a winger and so cannot defend and therefore there is a large learning curve in terms of integrating into the Serie A game and learning defensvie responsibilities.

Case in point. Milos Krasic is a winger and cannot play defense to save his life. Yet, he started for us last year from the get go even though he came from a much different league and was argualbly our best player last year in the first half along with Quags.

There are many comparables to Elia and Krasic from the time we got Krasic last year. I have only named the three major ones, arguments that have been used to support Conte only playing Elia for a total of 45 minutes this year. Based on the information above, these arguments looks to have major flaws in them.

Therefore, it can only be surmized that Conte is not playing Elia because of reasons NOT mentioned above. Perhaps Conte will eventually shed light on his reasoning to not playing Elia up to this point. Perhaps it is the same reason that Quagliarella is not playing, i.e. Conte just does not favour him. I guess we will find out in the next month or two the REAL reason or reasons why Elia is not being played by Conte right now.

by zarola Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:48 pm

not gonna read what you posted just going to quickly reply and say Elia.

younger - skillful - and he wants to do well.

rather than a lazy, unmotivated krasic.

by elm_baraja_shaman Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:14 pm

zarola wrote:not gonna read what you posted just going to quickly reply and say Elia.

younger - skillful - and he wants to do well.

rather than a lazy, unmotivated krasic.

it would have been wise if u read it........ than shed light on a pt. that will make everyone :facepalm:

your post....

by zarola Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:16 pm

elmystique wrote:
zarola wrote:not gonna read what you posted just going to quickly reply and say Elia.

younger - skillful - and he wants to do well.

rather than a lazy, unmotivated krasic.

it would have been wise if u read it........ than shed light on a pt. that will make everyone your post....

ok I just read it and my opinion didn't change sooo.....

by elm_baraja_shaman Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:17 pm

zarola wrote:
elmystique wrote:
zarola wrote:not gonna read what you posted just going to quickly reply and say Elia.

younger - skillful - and he wants to do well.

rather than a lazy, unmotivated krasic.

it would have been wise if u read it........ than shed light on a pt. that will make everyone your post....

ok I just read it and my opinion didn't change sooo.....

Eljero Elia vs. Milos Krasic StarTrekFacePalm

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:20 pm

You're right in a lot of ways.
Krasic was given a chance to run and was Juventus' clear cut best player alongside Quagliarella last season (before the collapse)
Elia has not been given a chance to run and may not get a chance. I really can't blame him for being impatient 45 minutes in 9 games and he is fit.
Good enough to keep getting called up for Holland, not good enough to play for Juventus...?

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:44 pm

Uhhh... do you know what happened to krasic after january? Obviously something went wrong. He got figured out because he was thrown into a league he didnt understand yet. Now look at him.

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:46 pm

Lets compare to Diego too....

Oh wait, same thing....

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:47 pm

Or he just got tired from playing game after game at an extremely high level.
It wasn't just him who crumbled if you remember, Aquilani disappeared, Quagliarella injured, Melo disappeared, the defense was completely horrible.
Only Matri and Del Piero actually played to a high level.
Not even Saint Pepe did anything of note.

So, he got thrown into a league he didn't understand but for 6 months destroyed everyone that came across him, but then his understanding failed him and he faulted? Is this what you're saying.
Was he found out? Or did he have no support?

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:49 pm

Luca wrote:Or he just got tired from playing game after game at an extremely high level.
It wasn't just him who crumbled if you remember, Aquilani disappeared, Quagliarella injured, Melo disappeared, the defense was completely horrible.
Only Matri and Del Piero actually played to a high level.
Not even Saint Pepe did anything of note.

So, he got thrown into a league he didn't understand but for 6 months destroyed everyone that came across him, but then his understanding failed him and he faulted? Is this what you're saying.
Was he found out? Or did he have no support?

Notice, the other players you mention are also players who we bought that same transfer market.

It was a combination of both.

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:51 pm

The_ItalianFool wrote:
Luca wrote:Or he just got tired from playing game after game at an extremely high level.
It wasn't just him who crumbled if you remember, Aquilani disappeared, Quagliarella injured, Melo disappeared, the defense was completely horrible.
Only Matri and Del Piero actually played to a high level.
Not even Saint Pepe did anything of note.

So, he got thrown into a league he didn't understand but for 6 months destroyed everyone that came across him, but then his understanding failed him and he faulted? Is this what you're saying.
Was he found out? Or did he have no support?

Notice, the other players you mention are also players who we bought that same transfer market.

It was a combination of both.

It was, he faulted but the whole team did so I consider this a non-factor
He carried the team many times, at times he was the only option going forward to get the ball in the middle

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:54 pm

come back Milos!

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:56 pm

Luca wrote:
The_ItalianFool wrote:
Luca wrote:Or he just got tired from playing game after game at an extremely high level.
It wasn't just him who crumbled if you remember, Aquilani disappeared, Quagliarella injured, Melo disappeared, the defense was completely horrible.
Only Matri and Del Piero actually played to a high level.
Not even Saint Pepe did anything of note.

So, he got thrown into a league he didn't understand but for 6 months destroyed everyone that came across him, but then his understanding failed him and he faulted? Is this what you're saying.
Was he found out? Or did he have no support?

Notice, the other players you mention are also players who we bought that same transfer market.

It was a combination of both.

It was, he faulted but the whole team did so I consider this a non-factor
He carried the team many times, at times he was the only option going forward to get the ball in the middle

I just dont understand how something so huge as to picking up your family, moving to a new country, a country which you know nothing about the language, to a league which is overall tougher, and specifically tougher on attackers, can be a non factor...

Alright let's sum this up. You guys know what I think the reasons why Elia is on the bench are... Mine are pretty logical and straightforward.

What do you think the reason(s) is/are?

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:06 pm

He's a footballer, he has already done that before.
The non-factor I meant was his play post-January, it was poor but so was everyone (minus Matri/Alex) after January, so yes, he was poor but if you condemn him for his poor form after January you must also include players like Chiellini, Bonucci, Pepe and the rest of them- yet we don't because they're playing well right now (minus Pepe, he is playing averagely :dance: )

I think his reasons are simple
He chooses the players who are strongest in training, whoever puts in the most effort plays, which makes perfect sense considering his Pepe-hard on.
I also believe he favours players (Marchisio, Pirlo) which is just, he should favour these players this isn't a bad thing, its just he does not favour Elia, Quagliarella or Krasic the same way he does Pepe, Vucinic and even Estigarribia as the minutes tell the story.

On Quagliarella:
When he impresses me in training; he will play

Who knows, maybe these players aren't the players who wow you in training but when the whistle goes for real they will still bleed for you. Its hard to say what a player's training habits are when you don't see them train so we can only assume.

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:11 pm

Luca wrote:He's a footballer, he has already done that before.
The non-factor I meant was his play post-January, it was poor but so was everyone (minus Matri/Alex) after January, so yes, he was poor but if you condemn him for his poor form after January you must also include players like Chiellini, Bonucci, Pepe and the rest of them- yet we don't because they're playing well right now (minus Pepe, he is playing averagely :dance: )

Chiellini has not been useless like Krasic has man. I know its painful to admit, but comparing Chiellini and Krasic is literally laughable. Chiellini always puts in 100%, and although he may have put in a few less that perfect displays, it is nowhere near Krasic's situation. As for 'the rest of them' everyone bounced back, the only one who hasnt was the one who was throw into the fray. Melo and Diego were also thrown into the fray, and look what happened to them.

I think his reasons are simple
He chooses the players who are strongest in training, whoever puts in the most effort plays, which makes perfect sense considering his Pepe-hard on.
I also believe he favours players (Marchisio, Pirlo) which is just, he should favour these players this isn't a bad thing, its just he does not favour Elia, Quagliarella or Krasic the same way he does Pepe, Vucinic and even Estigarribia as the minutes tell the story.

On Quagliarella:
When he impresses me in training; he will play

Who knows, maybe these players aren't the players who wow you in training but when the whistle goes for real they will still bleed for you. Its hard to say what a player's training habits are when you don't see them train so we can only assume.

I guess the difference is that I think Conte is playing the people who are playing best and are most ready to play while he prepares the other players to be ready to join the team, while you think he just plays who tries the hardest. is that right?

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:14 pm

and as far as Quag's case, I think he just hasnt fully come back from that injury, and Conte wants to take it slow in terms of getting quag back and in terms of changing the starting lineup too much if it isnt needed.

That isnt to say I dont think Conte is going use him, because I think he will. It just isnt needed yet and we have other players who require more attention, and since Quag is coming back from injury more time recovering can't hurt.

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:16 pm

Well, he isn't giving any chances to Elia and co. during games so something is up, whether it be preparing them or others just performing better it doesn't really matter, the fact is they are not playing.

Sorry but the defense last season was the only thing laughable, no one is untouchable. Chiellini puts in 100% but no one was notable in defense last season (January-on) and anyways this is just an example.

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Luca wrote:Well, he isn't giving any chances to Elia and co. during games so something is up, whether it be preparing them or others just performing better it doesn't really matter, the fact is they are not playing.

Sorry but the defense last season was the only thing laughable, no one is untouchable. Chiellini puts in 100% but no one was notable in defense last season (January-on) and anyways this is just an example.

It doesnt matter? dude, that is the whole reason we are having this discussion..... :facepalm:

Of course it matters!!!!.... There is a gigantic difference between an incompetent manager who doesnt realize he is wasting talent on the bench versus a manager who is competent and smart that knows he has to work extremely hard and be careful about how he introduces these players into the team.

by Luca Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:29 pm

yeah but at the end of the day its just they aren't playing
all the reasons we are giving are just speculation anyways
so, looking at the facts, they are fit but they aren't getting minutes
I know Krasic is fit because he played for Serbia recently, Elia called up for Holland so it is not a question of fitness.
They aren't getting minutes for Juventus, any way we look at it.

by The_ItalianFool Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:49 pm

Luca wrote:yeah but at the end of the day its just they aren't playing
all the reasons we are giving are just speculation anyways
so, looking at the facts, they are fit but they aren't getting minutes
I know Krasic is fit because he played for Serbia recently, Elia called up for Holland so it is not a question of fitness.
They aren't getting minutes for Juventus, any way we look at it.

Yeah.... I know that.

The thing I am trying to state is that Conte is doing the right thing, while others believe he is not.

by tareks Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:03 am

Luca wrote:He's a footballer, he has already done that before.
The non-factor I meant was his play post-January, it was poor but so was everyone (minus Matri/Alex) after January, so yes, he was poor but if you condemn him for his poor form after January you must also include players like Chiellini, Bonucci, Pepe and the rest of them- yet we don't because they're playing well right now (minus Pepe, he is playing averagely :dance: )

I think his reasons are simple
He chooses the players who are strongest in training, whoever puts in the most effort plays, which makes perfect sense considering his Pepe-hard on.
I also believe he favours players (Marchisio, Pirlo) which is just, he should favour these players this isn't a bad thing, its just he does not favour Elia, Quagliarella or Krasic the same way he does Pepe, Vucinic and even Estigarribia as the minutes tell the story.

On Quagliarella:
When he impresses me in training; he will play

Who knows, maybe these players aren't the players who wow you in training but when the whistle goes for real they will still bleed for you. Its hard to say what a player's training habits are when you don't see them train so we can only assume.

I'd like to suicide rather than saying that Vuci is impressing more than Quaglia in training.. Evil or Very Mad

by pasquale22 Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:16 am

The points you have made are completely irrelevant as it really comes down to 1 thing... Conte v Del Neri. Both made Diffrent decisions

by The_ItalianFool Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:30 am

tareks wrote:

I'd like to suicide rather than saying that Vuci is impressing more than Quaglia in training..

Good point. I wonder who actually puts in more effort.

by Luca Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:32 am

The_ItalianFool wrote:
tareks wrote:

I'd like to suicide rather than saying that Vuci is impressing more than Quaglia in training..

Good point. I wonder who actually puts in more effort.

Well, I think Conte has an idea of who will play each week
For Quagliarella to break into the team he would have to do something special as well as Conte would need an excuse to take out Vucinic/Matri
Right now, it is very hard for anyone to break into the team based on how well the team is playing, this is a great thing but still unfortunate for those players who will be sitting on the bench week in and week out.

Thats life though
I can't blame any of them for searching for a new club come January or next summer.

by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:08 am

Luca wrote:

come back Milos!

This video is better.

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