Official Definition of World Class

Don't really agree with the term WC. I would say a great player is a player that

A) Has the God given ability
B) Is able to Maximise that ability and do well for the team
C) (B) on a consistent basis
D) Elevate your teams overall performance (possibly lead them to wining important trophies or help them attain something pausible ie a top 4 finish, save them from relegation etc)

Any player that has at least 3 of those four is WC i suppose.

Xavi fits nicely into all the four
Nani has 2 so he isn't WC but maybe he is, no?
Rooney is WC
Aguero isn't because again, he has 2 of those so I don't consider him WC.
anyways you get my point. Pedro has 2 so no WC.

But the again that is a very narrow minded view. What happens if a player goes to a different team and doesn't perform and he was previoulsy considerd WC? is WC a permanent status or something you only have for a few seasons? If it's the former then Ruud VN is still WC as he has performed in 3 different leagues and has been top goal scorer, but that isn't true is it? So it has to e the latter. So by that definition, Torres isn't a WC striker anymore and hasn't been one for almost two seasons. Villa isn't WC because he is currently suffering or is he? the saying form is temporary class is permanent comes into mind here. So if a player ala Veron who was played out of posotion at United was considered WC before, wheat would you have called him after he played at United? or Forlan? He had one WC season by that definition. Does being WC mean you have to perform the criteria for a certain number of seasons? If yes then Forlan, Marcelo and RVP (due to different circumstances are not WC). Messi and Ronaldo have been performing these feats consistently.

Using Balotelli for example, I would say that he isn't even close to WC as he only has one of those 4 things, but I'm sure people on this forum would disagree.

Using an example that the RM and Barcelona fans can relate to. Ronaldo and Messi. MEssi fulfilled all the categories last season and has done for 3 season now. It could be argues that ROnaldo only did 3, but 3 out of four is still WC. Xavi did all four, so by that definition, Xavi is a btter player than ROnaldo? Also we have to take into consideration the system that they play in and what their functions are. Dani Alves is the best example I can use. People would say he is the best Right back in the world but is he? For one thing I see him as a wingback and not a full back. Maicon is preffered for Brazil. So Maicon is better at NT and Alves is better for Barceloa, who is better than the other? When defining WC and comparing you have to definie it within the players specific sytem and can only be compared with players that do a particluar job.

Long story short, we can all twist statistics to determine who is WC and who isn't and at the end, it all comes dfown to opinion.

I think dnmac's is the most popular, particularly given the intuitive responses to the 23 man squad, stating that you can't have only four world class forwards when there are more.

RedOranje's definition is closer to an actual defintion in my mind in that players fit the term, not vice versa, however I prefer a more open ended term, for the express purpose not only of inclusion but of exclusion.

I don't mind the definition being strict, however this allows flexibility at the same time and you can get a 'spine' of names that there is a general consensus around, however personal opinion then allows you to depart from this, which is central to the forum's purpose as a centre of debate.

Top 5-10 in their positions.

I googled World Class and the first link that came up was David Luiz

Sushi Master wrote:

Luca wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Alright so I'm thinking for poll options:

What should Goal Legacy's definition of World Class be?

Would make a 23 man world squad
Top 2 in position
Top 5 in position
The 'elite' in position (I might not include this one at all since it's so vague it wouldn't be helpful)
If you have to think about it, he's not world class

Spencer I'm not sure how I would outline your process of selection as a definition.

Anything I'm missing?

This is all still very subjective though
We are almost better off making a giant list of potential world class players and then keep tuning it until it is agreeable
wouldn't be that hard

I like this idea, but it would be a shitstorm, really.

It would be like a phantom Madrid-Barca vs. thread.

You could have fans of other teams debate it? For instance, Barca and Madrid fans need to shut up about their players and let fans of Arsenal, Manu, Bayern, etc decide them. It's the best way to eliminate bias, in my opinion.

How do you know if he is top-5 or not how do you know he will go into 23 man squad. there are no facts.

billionmillion wrote:How do you know if he is top-5 or not how do you know he will go into 23 man squad. there are no facts.

Obviously. It's all about opinion.

If you wanna discover world class players... start with Club and NT legends.

Its too subjective a topic imo. Consistency is key I'd like to think but when asking about wc players, depending when you ask youre always gonna get a different answer. For example, in 2006-2008 Kaka was definitely considered wc. From 2005/6-2008 Ronaldinho was as well but both players have for the last few years been nowhere near their top form, whether its injuries or whatever. I'm not comparing the two at all but if you ask fans which they, in 2011 consider wc, more will say R10 over Kaka. Lets not get into Kaka>R10 or vice versa, but why would that be? Championships? Individual awards? Fame (at least in the states)? Skill? Team contribution? Theres a lot to factor in so to me it all depends on who you ask and how that person determines what makes a player better than another (which, with a troll is always a disagreement) so world class doesnt have an official definition imo. It's just too subjective to be known by an official definition.

Lord Spencer wrote: I was going to make this thread

I think dnmac gave a good definition or lack thereof of WC. WC is not an objective term and therefore a rigid description of it would be futile, as dnmac said, if the term registers with our own subjective mind, and it registers for MOST observers then that player is WC.

The best we can do is make a criteria for observance.

Zizzle so far gave the best criteria, we need the WC player to be:

1- Outstanding in his position.
2- Consistent in his "outstandingness".
3- Do it for a long period of time.

For example, Messi was great his first season, but it was not only after his third great season that MOST observers started agreeing on him being WC.

And this criteria gives leeway to different eras, for example now when we have so few good LB, we can only have so much WC LB.

Finally, once a player achieves the title of WC, out of respect of his former statues, he always retains the title even if he is not among the top 5 in his position at this time, example Gattuso is WC for what he did 5 years ago and not for what he is doing now.

Reaching WC statues is a step lower than reaching club Legend and World legend statues.

All in all, the summary would be:

A WC player is a player who:

Have been outstanding in his position for an extended period of time (depending on the position) so that he was always considered on of the best in that position in the eyes of most football observers.

Busquets for example needs two more years at the same level to earn it since the DM position has long life span.

This is quite perfect.

It can be a mix of subjective and objective criteria.

1) Outstanding in his position - This is obviously a subjective one. But we can add statistics, trophies and general opinion to aid us in reaching a decision with respect to this criteria. Obviously we can only go by what players have done in the past. For example, has Busquets been outstanding in his position? You dont have to think about the team or players he is playing with etc. If he is WC, then it is 99% certain that he is playing for a top team and winning most games. The idea is, if the player is actually talented, then he will become WC at some point in his career.

2) The longevity of criteria 1 - This can be objective. We just have to decide the period for each position. A winger could be WC if he has been outstanding for 3 years. However, a GK can be WC if he has been outstanding for 5 years etc etc.

3) Considered the best in his position - I think this criteria has been covered in point 1.

There you have it. Spencer's criteria is the best and we should go with it. Obviously when the WC status of a player is being debated, these criteria will come into play and there has to be discussion to reach a consensus!

Currently there is no single player that can play as a sweeper, doesn't it mean the best player that can play there even though they are decent can be considered as a worldclass.

That logic doesn't work here.

The term "world Class may or may not be banded about too regularly these days....

But some of the ideas people often mention:
1) Legends of the game (the likes of Cruyff, Pele, Maradona)
2) The current world XI.
3) The top few in each position.
4) A player who would get into every side in world football.
5) A player who has played a major role in winning the major trophies on the biggest stages.
6) A player who has, in more than one top-level league, played to the highest quality consistently.
7) A player who has retired and left a legacy behind.

How do YOU define "World Class", and why?

See thread: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t12885-official-definition-of-world-class

A player that is not easily matched in skill, persistence, by many or anyone, someone who does something so good, that it should be analyzed aside.

Someone who is simply world class, is.

Ability
Consistency
Important matches

Any of the two above

World-class is a temporary state awarded through exceeding a set-standard of above average performance in a particular position.

You'd need to define what attributes and skills are important for each position. Then you'd have to define statistics based on those attributes.

Example: For a striker, Goals/Minutes ratio would be one such statistic. First, you define what the average is for strikers in leagues that are equal in competitiveness. Then you mark what above-average is. Anybody who gets a higher ratio than above-average could be world class. Of course, there would be other statistics for relevant for each position, then you just compare everybody at the end. Then you can say the top 3,5, 10 - whatever - are world-class.

First you have to ask yourself: does he play for the club I support?
If yes, the other criteria come easily

Tomasso wrote:World-class is a temporary state awarded through exceeding a set-standard of above average performance in a particular position.

You'd need to define what attributes and skills are important for each position. Then you'd have to define statistics based on those attributes.

Example: For a striker, Goals/Minutes ratio would be one such statistic. First, you define what the average is for strikers in leagues that are equal in competitiveness. Then you mark what above-average is. Anybody who gets a higher ratio than above-average could be world class. Of course, there would be other statistics for relevant for each position, then you just compare everybody at the end. Then you can say the top 3,5, 10 - whatever - are world-class.

In your opinion, how many players, in active terms, would you include per position? I know we haven't actually attained those figures, but just given today's footballers.

Gareth Bale.

Players that are top 5 in their position when everybody is fit. How you decide that is up to you, but putting in high level performances consistently over a number of years is a big factor.

As an example, Gareth Bale had 2 good games against an injured Maicon and an Inter side that were 4-0 up and knew the game was over and against Robert Huth (a big, fat, slow CB that was playing at RB). Then his value rose exponentially and he became "one of the best wingers in the world." Lol, no. Bale is far from world class. Ribery on the other hand who consistently puts in top level performances and destroys his full back, is world class and is one of the best wingers in the world.

The only problem with this is that certain positions have alot of great players and some have very few. Example, CM is very competitive, you have Xavi, Iniesta, Ozil, Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Cesc, Busquets, Sneijder e.t.c. Then you have lright back where there's Alves, Maicon, Lahm and Sagna but it's a struggle to think of 5 great RB's.

GK
Buffon
Casillas
Valdes
Neuer
Cech/Reina

LB
Lahm
Evra
Cole
Abidal
Marcelo

RB
Alves
Maicon
Ramos
Sagna
Erm...there isn't anybody else.

CB
Vidic
Silva
Pique
Puyol
Terry

CM (Includes DM's and AM's)
Xavi
Iniesta
Ozil
Schweinsteiger
Busquets

Wingers
Robben
Ribery
Silva (Probably a AM but plays on the wing for City)
Mata
Di Maria

Fowards
Messi
Ronaldo
Villa
Ibrahimovic
Gomez

Before I get hate for not including RvP it's because whilst he is brilliant this season the criteria was consistent top performances over the 4 years or so. And the 3 seasons prior to this one weren't great. The reason players like Cole, Evra and Maicon were included is because although this season they haven't been great, they were brilliant in the 3 before.

Neuer/Marcelo/Pique/Ozil

weren't exactly some of the best in the world since 4 years ago.

I agree with Aford's template, top 5 players in thier position are WC imo......

I dont necessarily agree with all those players but the thinking behind it is correct imo.

I know people have the idea that best players in the world that fit into a 22 man squad but i dont agree with that its too limited of a scope to discuss whose WC or not.

Top 5 in their position does it for me or top 3 if the position is lacking in quality.

you seriously have Villa as a top 5 forward????

Edit: Not to mention Terry as a top 5 CB. OK... going to stop reading the post now lol.

Top 5 for each position doesn't even work.

I can already think of players that go into nearly all the groups of positions listed.

sportsczy wrote:you seriously have Villa as a top 5 forward????

Edit: Not to mention Terry as a top 5 CB. OK... going to stop reading the post now lol.

I did mention Terry, he's under Puyol. And what's wrong with Villa? His goal scoring record is insane and he was great at the WC.