Greatests of All Time: Based on Ability or Reputation?

by Sushi Master Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 6:48

Coming from the rightback section, I see my view of GOATs varies in comparison to other posters. To me, I base it on peak skill but also on their overall reputation. It's why there are so many classy players that are not really known to the common person. This should be purely based on skill, but I feel reputation also has a lot to do with it. Ask any person on the street and they will give you Pelé/Maradona default response on what their GOAT is. Like 90% of the time it's out of reputation even if they have never seen them play or know much about football. But this is what's remembered through time.

So guys like Di Stefano, Gerd Mueller, Batistuta or other not fairly known gems would never be GOAT material to me, simply because they're not that well known even if they have the skill to back it up.

As a fan I definitely know they deserve to be there, but in the overall scope of history I know they won't be. Guys from smaller NTs and lesser clubs will be shunted simply because they were not watched.

Nowadays, with massive media coverage and satellite TV, streams and whatever, we get to see pretty much any half decent guy play and can judge talent much easier than through blurry TV recordings or Youtube compilations.

So do you think we'll have more grass eaters due to how huge football has gotten, and rate players purely based on skill rather than mostly on reputation? Or you might disagree with me on how GOATs are judged through time, but this is how I see it. Keep in mind I'm talking about the common person, not your football geek or average GL member.

by Kick Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 6:50

Reputation drives the goats mostly because it is impossible to watch every played who has ever played enough to make a fair judgement.

If we hyped up Kalou or Evans or Bonera enough, people would start to believe they are great players.

by rwo power Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 7:07

GOAT also depends on where you ask people. In Germany no one would doubt Franz Beckenbauer or Gerd Müller are GOATs as they are known to practically everybody here. Pele and Maradona would count, too, but players like Di Stefano, Puskas etc are mainly known to football fans alone.

by Sushi Master Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 7:14

rwo power wrote:GOAT also depends on where you ask people. In Germany no one would doubt Franz Beckenbauer or Gerd Müller are GOATs as they are known to practically everybody here. Pele and Maradona would count, too, but players like Di Stefano, Puskas etc are mainly known to football fans alone.

This is also true. If you ask in the Netherlands you get Cruyff, van Basten. If you ask in France you get Platini, Zidane. If you ask in Italy you get Baresi, Baggio, Maldini. Etc. But Maradona and Pelé are known everywhere which is why I consider them the best overall GOATs, by my definition.

People are also quick to dismiss newer players, as if football back in the day was a mythical sport only a few chosen could dominate. As if today's football is crap. So most GOATs tend to be players from older generations.

I could probably name a few recent players who are at GOAT level, yet most of the time I'd get laughed down due to them not being at the standards of Cruyff or because the ball was heavier, or defenders broke your legs no sweat and the like.

by Guest Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 7:14

if you base it on reputations Bale and Rooney are the best players ever then lmao......

by Sushi Master Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 7:17

Crimson wrote:if you base it on reputations Bale and Rooney are the best players ever then lmao......

Rooney could be potential GOAT material to some, who knows. Still young and very skilled.

Bale? Lulz.

English players obviously don't count for much Laughing

Gascoigne and Best aren't really rated by people outside Britain.

I obviously mean reputation throughout the ages.

by Ganso Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 9:23

Rooney potential goat?no way,the only player ATM that has potential to be goat is messi imo

by rwo power Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 10:01

Well, for all his reputation, Rooney always bottles it in the big competitions - see WC2006, Euro2008 qualifiers, WC2010 and now for EC2012 he is suspended for the first 3 matches of England (or possibly all of them Razz

). So I can't really see him as a GOAT, I'm afraid.

by Sushi Master Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 12:38

I mean inside England Very Happy

. I can imagine plenty of United fans 30 years from now calling him a GOAT. He's pretty much won every trophy possible with them and is their only stand out player.

by beatrixasdfghjk. Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 13:01

rwo power wrote:Well, for all his reputation, Rooney always bottles it in the big competitions - see WC2006, Euro2008 qualifiers, WC2010 and now for EC2012 he is suspended for the first 3 matches of England (or possibly all of them ). So I can't really see him as a GOAT, I'm afraid.

Is that ... Almunia in your avatar? Suspect

by rwo power Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 15:18

beatrixasdfghjk. wrote:Is that ... Almunia in your avatar?

It's all Sushi's fault! I lost a bet... Rolling Eyes

But in 4 hours and 22 minutes I'm free again!!! What a Face

by Zealous Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 15:34

IMO each era has two GOAT's. So roughly something like this:

50's Di Stefano, Puskas. (Matthews, Gento, Kopa special mentions)

60's Pele, Eusebio. (Garrincha, Charlton special mentions)

70's Cruyff, Beckenbauer. (Muller, Rivellino special mentions)

80's Maradona, Platini. (Zico, Van Basten special mentions)

90's Zidane, Ronaldo. (Laudrup, Romario special mentions)

Early 00's Ronaldinho.

Currently Messi, Cristiano. (Xavi special mention)

All time is obviously Podolski though

Of course this is very subjective but I think those guys had the most skill/impact/reputation out of all the players out there.

The best four in all of those are Pele, Di Stefano, Maradona, Cryuff forming the god tier.

by Sushi Master Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 16:35

I completely agree with that GOAT list.

Any common person still is gonna give me Pelé/Maradona, though. At least here in the Americas.

I know in Europe you will have much more knowledgable people and a greater overall variety in the votes.

But Pelé/Maradona are known everywhere so one of them are the GOAT to me.

by rwo power Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 17:18

I'd make a case for Beckenbauer, as he wasn't only a GOAT as player, but also was coach of the German NT when they won the World Cup in 1990 plus he was the guy who was in charge of the 2006 World Cup in Germany. Absolute all-round GOAT IMO.

by Lord Awesome Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 19:21

I would never rate and mix it with rep even if you paid me. Laughing

Just like with every subject about anything sports, politics, religion, etc. there are buffs (people in the know) and there are noobs. But it's also not so Black & White. Then you have biased people, elitest, etc regardless of whether they are truly noobs or not.

Finding a true unbiased opinion is tough especially with Football as there are many fans. For example, when people say Pele is the best of all time the thoughts that immediately crosses my mind is, WC Glory Hunter, Brazil Fan, Brazilian, or noob. One could say I'm being judgmental, but really I think any footy expert can deduce whether the person is in the know or not immediately. Laughing

In the end, it's those sorts of opinions that just get me riled up enough to just facepalm or actually debate with the person to see what his opinions are based on. If I discover any foundation to the person's argument then I would find his opinion acceptable. If I get "Brazil have 5 WC's, Durr Hurr" then I would give no credibility to the person's opinion. And more often than not it's the latter where I live and I'm pretty sure it's like this almost eveywhere in the world.

by jibers Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 19:33

Zealous wrote:IMO each era has two GOAT's. So roughly something like this:

40s: Meazza

50's Di Stefano, Puskas, Kubala

60's Pele, Eusebio, Suarez, Best, Garrincha (Charlton special mentions)

70's Cruyff, Beckenbauer. (Muller, Rivellino special mentions)

80's Maradona, Platini. (Zico, Van Basten special mentions)

90's Zidane, Ronaldo. (Laudrup, Romario special mentions)

Early 00's Ronaldinho.

Currently Messi, Cristiano. (Xavi special mention)

All time is obviously Podolski though

Of course this is very subjective but I think those guys had the most skill/impact/reputation out of all the players out there.

The best four in all of those are Pele, Di Stefano, Maradona, Cryuff forming the god tier.

by Lord Awesome Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 19:54

Zealous wrote:IMO each era has two GOAT's. So roughly something like this:

50's Di Stefano, Puskas. (Matthews, Gento, Kopa special mentions)

60's Pele, Eusebio. (Garrincha, Charlton special mentions)

70's Cruyff, Beckenbauer. (Muller, Rivellino special mentions)

80's Maradona, Platini. (Zico, Van Basten special mentions)

90's Zidane, Ronaldo. (Laudrup, Romario special mentions)

Early 00's Ronaldinho.

Currently Messi, Cristiano. (Xavi special mention)

All time is obviously Podolski though

Of course this is very subjective but I think those guys had the most skill/impact/reputation out of all the players out there.

The best four in all of those are Pele, Di Stefano, Maradona, Cryuff forming the god tier.

You forgot Yashin, Banks, and Zoff. Sad

by jibers Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 20:22

jibers wrote:
Zealous wrote:IMO each era has two GOAT's. So roughly something like this:

40s: Meazza

50's Di Stefano, Puskas, Kubala

60's Pele, Eusebio, Suarez, Best, Garrincha (Charlton special mentions)

70's Cruyff, Beckenbauer. (Muller, Rivellino special mentions)

80's Maradona, Platini. (Zico, Van Basten special mentions)

90's Zidane, Ronaldo. (Laudrup, Romario special mentions)

Early 00's Ronaldinho.

Currently Messi, Cristiano, Nerman, Referees involved in Barcelona games. (Xavi special mention)

All time is obviously Podolski though

Of course this is very subjective but I think those guys had the most skill/impact/reputation out of all the players out there.

The best four in all of those are Pele, Di Stefano, Maradona, Cryuff forming the god tier.

by rwo power Mon 5 Dec 2011 - 21:45

Lord Hispano wrote:You forgot Yashin, Banks, and Zoff.

Everybody always forgets the goalies. Sepp Maier belongs to them, too, and Bert Trautmann.
But I think the goalies should have a proper list of their own as they are a breed apart anyway Very Happy

by Khaled Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 0:18

jibers wrote:
jibers wrote:
Zealous wrote:IMO each era has two GOAT's. So roughly something like this:

40s: Meazza

50's Di Stefano, Puskas, Kubala

60's Pele, Eusebio, Suarez, Best, Garrincha (Charlton special mentions)

70's Cruyff, Beckenbauer. (Muller, Rivelino special mentions)

80's Maradona, Platini. (Zico, Van Basten special mentions)

90's Zidane, Ronaldo. (Laudrup, Romario special mentions)

Early 00's Ronaldinho.

Currently Messi, Cristiano, Grimaldo (Xavi special mention)

Of course this is very subjective but I think those guys had the most skill/impact/reputation out of all the players out there.

The best four in all of those are Messi, Grimaldo , Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Di Stefano, forming the god tier.

by Le Samourai Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 1:04

Did Jibers lose a bet?

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