Will Barcelona abandon their philosophy?

Bale to Barca in the summer.

long balls is the only way..

In that context I think you're being unfair to Ramos to say he Hoof's it.

He at least looks up and tries to pick his man unlike Pepe.

Not really...

Ramos was punting long balls from center defence to center forward or Cristiano on deep left wing...sure he is aiming for someone but he knows full well its a 50-50 ball.

Pique wasnt doing that, he was clipping balls to the half way line where it would bounce before reaching his target or at least come at a level the reciever could control with a first touch.

But your right, compared to Pepe, it wasnt a aimless hoof.

Only 7% of all passes by Barcelona vs Villarreal were long balls

As for "hoofing it"

Puyol hit the target 7 times with 8 of his long ball passes, Mascherano 8 times out of 8, Abidal 5 times out of 7, Xavi 6 out of 6, Pique 5 out of 5, Valdes 3 out of 4, Alves 3 out of 3, Biscuits 2 out of 2, Fabregas and Tello both 1 out of 1, then Messi attempted 1 but it didn't hit the target

Can't really say that's "hoofing it" when they only missed 5 total out of 46/47 odd.......

Crim could you bring up Ramos long ball stats for the season?

Le Samourai wrote:Crim could you bring up Ramos long ball stats for the season?

Sergio Ramos in La Liga 2011/2012 - 116 out of 158 or 73.41%

And what about Pique's?

Le Samourai wrote:And what about Pique's?

Pique in La Liga 2011/2012 - 68 out of 84 or 80.95%

See Dani.

He is a very good long passer.

He's just does it more often......you try it more you'll fail more.It's like Fab and Xavi.....Fab's passes are going to get cut out more often but but you're not going to call him a bad passer.

Ramos attempts some difficult passes.....I'm not gonna call him a hoofer because of that, especially in our system.


BTW thanks Crim.

jibers wrote:Will Barcelona abandon their philosophy?

During the mid week game we saw Barcelona play defensive football and long balls. Against Villareal they kept passing it to the fullbacks and hoofing the ball into the box. Is this a change in strategy? Have they abandoned their 20+ years philosophy? Also getting Fabregas, who is a very direct passer seems to support this theory. English pragmatism? Maybe...

Man U fan.... more

BarcaLearning wrote:

jibers wrote:Will Barcelona abandon their philosophy?

During the mid week game we saw Barcelona play defensive football and long balls. Against Villareal they kept passing it to the fullbacks and hoofing the ball into the box. Is this a change in strategy? Have they abandoned their 20+ years philosophy? Also getting Fabregas, who is a very direct passer seems to support this theory. English pragmatism? Maybe...

Man U fan.... more

What? Pipe down...

Le Samourai wrote:See Dani.

He is a very good long passer.

He's just does it more often......you try it more you'll fail more.It's like Fab and Xavi.....Fab's passes are going to get cut out more often but but you're not going to call him a bad passer.

Ramos attempts some difficult passes.....I'm not gonna call him a hoofer because of that, especially in our system.


BTW thanks Crim.

First of all, I didnt say he was a bad one. I said its obsurd how people compare his ability on the ball to Pique. Stats and eyes prove that.

Secondly, my comments about Ramos negatively were in the Classico game. And in that game, he did send a few long ones just like I said.

Its not him attempting diffficult passes, its him knowing its a 50-50 ball. I recall at least 5 times he went long to Cristiano, sometimes he won it over Alves, sometimes he didnt.

Also, its not like comparing Cesc and Xavi. Because Cesc is passing worse than Lass..thats one because he is trying more difficult balls, but two because he is giving away alot of cheap, slack passes which are easy.

There is often more than just one reason why stats say things. Just because Cesc tries harder passes and has worse stats doesnt mean he isnt giving away loose, cheap passes.

Also, 73% long passes doesnt really impress me anyway, I dont find that to be a good %.

Maybe..but he does that every game though...mainly because it's an element of our game.We expect Cristiano to win those.Perhap's it's a "50/50" ball so fair enough.

There is often more than just one reason why stats say things. Just because Cesc tries harder passes and has worse stats doesnt mean he isnt giving away loose, cheap passes.

Perhaps Cesc was a bad comparison.Xabi is more apt.He gives away alot of ground passes and attempts more difficult long balls.......When I think about it...that's who Ramos tries to pass like......but anyway, there's no way you're gonna call Xabi a bad passer.

He may be a bad passer for a certain dynamic.....and his passing style may not be best suited to retaining the ball but I just think he operates within the system we've set up....one which places alot more importance on how quickly and decisively we advance the ball rather than how long we keep it.



I find it a bit telling....I mean....1/2 of those long balls from Pique are pretty automatic crossfield balls to Iniesta or Abidal on the left.More than a few are probably also back to Valdes.

Philosophy being great for half a decade now, under performing in 3 months results wise and it should be abondoned? Sounds legit.

OP

Le Samourai wrote:Maybe..but he does that every game though...mainly because it's an element of our game.We expect Cristiano to win those.Perhap's it's a "50/50" ball so fair enough.

There is often more than just one reason why stats say things. Just because Cesc tries harder passes and has worse stats doesnt mean he isnt giving away loose, cheap passes.

Perhaps Cesc was a bad comparison.Xabi is more apt.He gives away alot of ground passes and attempts more difficult long balls.......When I think about it...that's who Ramos tries to pass like......but anyway, there's no way you're gonna call Xabi a bad passer.

He may be a bad passer for a certain dynamic.....and his passing style may not be best suited to retaining the ball but I just think he operates within the system we've set up....one which places alot more importance on how quickly and decisively we advance the ball rather than how long we keep it.



I find it a bit telling....I mean....1/2 of those long balls from Pique are pretty automatic crossfield balls to Iniesta or Abidal on the left.More than a few are probably also back to Valdes.

But why do that pass to Cristiano if Alonso is constantly coming short like he is. Sometimes he does it for no apparent reason other than he can. This I dont understand.

Even if Cristiano wins the aerial ball, the second ball is a hard one because its going to lack accuracy. Why is this a productive way of playing?

Nope, Xabi is not a bad passer, a great pass...but put him under intense pressure and he doesnt deal with it aswell as some comparable guys.

I dont understand this line, "his passing style may not be best suited to retaining the ball".

Every pass should be for you to retain the ball, you dont play passes with the intention of giving it away.

And yeah, Pique makes simplier, easier, long passes...nothing wrong with that, I commend it, its better than giving the ball away.

It's productive (especially when Higuain is on the field) because we have a couple runners behind the defense to collect.It's a tactic we use all the time.Maybe he should just leave it to Alonso but then a gain we can't just leave Alonso to do everything, when as you said he comes under alot more pressure than Ramos. Especially against you guys.

It's not as suited to retaining the ball as Pique.Because even if it's a successful pass , the way we play still means that the opposition will have the ball in a short while anyway.Simply put we're not going to score on every single attack and we're going to give it away alot more.

If our plan is to counterattack....then we have to try risky passes, quick passes.Personally I don't care if we give away the ball a few times in order to do so.

I commend him as well, but once again I don't think it makes him better simply because both are operating within what their respective system requires.I really don't think either is doing their job better than the other in this small facet of the game.

Well I dont see it as very effective, certaintly not vs us.

Long ball to Cristiano, its already a 50-50, then he has to win it and head it on to someone while he is up in the air, a very difficult ball. I dont think that play worked once while Higuain was on the field.

I dont have any issue with quick passes, attacking directly...but giving the ball away wastefully isnt good no matter how your playing. You can counter attack and be direct without Cristiano fighting high balls.

Listen guys, Ithink that Pep's changes are good actually.

If you have the same core of players the whole time, then they lose the drive.

So you take a fresh player now and then to have someone who's hungry for titles. Cesc was perfect in that scenario - a WC player, who has Barca DNA (whatever that means), and is hungry for titles 'cause he hasn't won anything in Arsenal since 2005.

Ibra was brought for the same reason imo. A WC player without CL title (what a bummer it must have been for him to leave emptyhanded).

They've had injuries.

Yes, please encourage Barcelona to change their philosophy. Several clubs would be very grateful for that...