Re: You know competition is in decline when...

by Cassius Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:36 am

Lex wrote:
Cassius_Case wrote:Unlike Apoel were they will lose 99% of the time
So how did APOEL top their group and make it past Lyon?

I mean in the quarter finals ect vs the likes of Madrid, Barca, Bayern and Milan in the champions league.

It's not a farcry to say they will be beat 99% of the time.

I'm not afraid to give credit out and credit goes to them for beating Lyon, even though Lyon aren't as great as they used to be there are way bigger than Apoel which deserves respect.

by Lex Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:38 am

Getting to the quarters itself isn't exactly a walk in the park. City and United will attest to that

Anyone who's where they are deserve to be there. Those who don't get eliminated

by The Franchise Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:39 am

Nobody told Man Utd, Man City and co to be shite.

If those teams were in the quarters, nobody would mind? Despite them not playing to the level to deserve it?

by VivaStPauli Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:41 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:
FYI, half our squad was injured for the games against Tottenham and we dominated in possession and shots on target in both legs... you clearly didn't watch the games... or was your comment sarcastic?

no offense to Spurs, but does that really matter???? i mean your B team should be better than them

Sure it matters, Spurs squad is worth around 300m these days, they're not pushovers, and if Milan miss one or two key players, the Spurs will be their equal on paper, they've been shopping wisely for the past 3 seasons. Don't discount them, actually look at their players.

by che Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:46 am

i think only teams ever allowed to be in the cl quarter finals are:

man utd
chelsea
arsenal
barcelona
madrid
bayern
milan
juve/inter

because otherwise competition sucks

:facepalm:

i'm having severe deja vu here... you know why the likes of man utd and inter aren't there and apoel are? BECAUSE THEY DID BETTER IN THE COMPETITION

jesus h. christ...

by Cassius Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:46 am

I'm not saying they don't deserve to be there because quite obviously they do.

Just saying it would be a better football game with teams which have players that are high quality players. Of course there's always exceptions but more often than not better footballers = more entertainment.

Anyway I'm not gunna get sucked into this thread before I get accused of hating the underdogs and being a nostalgia nazi again.

by Forza Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:00 am

We could have had this in the quarter finals...

Milan v Barca
R. Madrid v Lyon
Bayern v Inter
Man U v Man C

...but guess what... those so-called 'top' teams were either beaten by smaller teams or beaten to a top 2 position in the group stages by smaller teams!

Milan v Barca
R. Madrid v ~~Lyon~~ APOEL
Bayern v ~~Inter~~ Marseille
~~Man U~~ Benfica v ~~Man C~~ beaten by Napoli, who were subsequently defeated by Chelsea

---

My point is that those teams deserve to be there and the big clubs that missed out on quarter-finals CL action only have themselves to blame for it. In my mind, deserving to be there and providing the best contest are not the same thing, however it would certainly be unjust to remove these clubs from the action because they punched above their weight.

by halamadrid2 Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:10 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
Sure it matters, Spurs squad is worth around 300m these days, they're not pushovers, and if Milan miss one or two key players, the Spurs will be their equal on paper, they've been shopping wisely for the past 3 seasons. Don't discount them, actually look at their players.

that 300 comes from the fact A'rry overpays for players that wouldn't get a bench opportunity at other bigger clubs, most of their players are cast-offs from bigger teams basically

you take out one player from them and they are on the level of mid table EPL teams(they did have a player out, their best one as well)

they do play beautiful tho i give them that, but a team like Milan shouldn't have a problem of eliminating them with a broken squad

where would Crouch be if he was at Milan, stands??? reserves???

by izzy Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:16 am

REWB wrote:Its UEFA giving Madrid APOEL!!, its fixed ffs, they just want RM to win the CL!!. The amount of week teams RM have been getting these past two years in the Quarters, last 16 and the group stages have been ridiculous.

A

for stupidity.

Maybe, just Maybe had the better teams actually done their job that wouldn't be the case and LOOOOOOOOL at using 'two' years as your arguement.

:bow:

stupidity FTW.

by teamanarchy Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:17 am

How can you blame Madrid for this?
Why don't you look at the reality here...
English teams have been horrendous this year.
They are responsible for getting themselves knocked out - you cannot blame anyone else for their sh*t. And at the same time, teams like APOEL really punched above their weight and deserve credit for what they've done. Teams like Basel should be shown the same appreciation.
Meanwhile, the likes of Liverpool and Juventus, who in days gone by were the "big teams" competing at this stage of the competition, have not even qualified for group stages.
Who's to blame for their decline in quality? Most certainly not Real Madrid.
Oh, and also:
Round of 16/QF fixtures from 09 onwards:
(08/09-16) Barcelona - Lyon
(QF) - Bayern Munich
(09/10 - 16) - Barcelona/Stuttgart
(QF) - Arsenal
(10/11 - 16) Barcelona/Arsenal
(QF) - Shaktar Donesk

Barca, themselves are given favorable draws every time...

If you want better quality competition in the CL, then teams must get better. Every draw will favour Madrid/Barca. Why? Because they are better than every other team.

by halamadrid2 Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:18 am

izzy wrote:
REWB wrote:Its UEFA giving Madrid APOEL!!, its fixed ffs, they just want RM to win the CL!!. The amount of week teams RM have been getting these past two years in the Quarters, last 16 and the group stages have been ridiculous.

A for stupidity.

Maybe, just Maybe had the better teams actually done their job that wouldn't be the case and LOOOOOOOOL at using 'two' years as your arguement.

stupidity FTW.

lol using his logic, the competition was weak for the past 7 years before Mou because we were never in the quarters :coffee:

by rwo power Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 am

Well, if the "big clubs" didn't qualify or got out of the groups, then they obviously weren't as big as they thought. Moreover, the upsets of the "smaller teams" obviously showed that these matches weren't as predictable as some people claim. I prefer a fresh set of clubs to ever the same group anyway and I hope that the next CL season will have some unsuspected teams in the later stages, too.

by REWB Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:07 am

lol my comment wasn’t really related to the thread, i just wanted to express opinion about RM getting teams like apoel and lyon all the time. however, on topic i believe that this year most of the top teams have been way weaker than before, which has allowed a teams like apoel to make it this far. It sucks for the neutral viewers as we want to see big teams and star names play against each other more often in the CL but i have no problem with it really. Going this far in the CL will make apoel grow as a club which is a good thing really.

by izzy Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:10 am

REWB wrote:lol my comment wasn’t really related to the thread, i just wanted to express opinion about RM getting teams like apoel and lyon all the time. however, on topic i believe that this year most of the top teams have been way weaker than before, which has allowed a teams like apoel to make it this far. It sucks for the neutral viewers as we want to see big teams and star names play against each other more often in the CL but i have no problem with it really. Going this far in the CL will make apoel grow as a club which is a good thing really.

You not making yourself look any smarter here.
All the time? What, this two year period? Herp frakking Derp.

by Lex Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:15 am

Didn't Lyon eliminate Madrid from the CL three years ago?

Makes APOEL beating Lyon that much more remarkable :dance:

by REWB Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:18 am

fking helll, i didnt want to bring up the last 7 years because RM weren’t that strong in the CL, but the last two years RM have been making it past the last 16 have they not? and im saying RM have had easier teams than what other big teams have had to face. When is the last time RM faced a man utd, chelsea, bayern to get to the semis? all they have had to face a weeker Milan side, fck me is it that hard to understand?

by Zealous Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:18 am

Lex wrote:Didn't Lyon eliminate Madrid from the CL three years ago?

Makes APOEL beating Lyon that much more remarkable :dance:

If Lyon beat Madrid and APOEL beat Lyon but Madrid beat APOEL then has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

by VivaStPauli Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:20 am

Zealous wrote:
Lex wrote:Didn't Lyon eliminate Madrid from the CL three years ago?

Makes APOEL beating Lyon that much more remarkable :dance:

If Lyon beat Madrid and APOEL beat Lyon but Madrid beat APOEL then has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

This just means that Madrid is better than Madrid.

by halamadrid2 Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:21 am

Zealous wrote:
Lex wrote:Didn't Lyon eliminate Madrid from the CL three years ago?

Makes APOEL beating Lyon that much more remarkable :dance:

If Lyon beat Madrid and APOEL beat Lyon but Madrid beat APOEL then has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

hurt my head trying to visually understand that lol... da fuq

by halamadrid2 Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:23 am

REWB wrote:fking helll, i didnt want to bring up the last 7 years because RM weren’t that strong in the CL, but the last two years RM have been making it past the last 16 have they not? and im saying RM have had easier teams than what other big teams have had to face. When is the last time RM faced a man utd, chelsea, bayern to get to the semis? all they have had to face a weeker Milan side, fck me is it that hard to understand?

so whats the difference between us then and all the other "supposed" big teams now????

Man U were outplayed by Basel, Chelsea are not even good

Bayern we will meet if they are good enough to eliminate Marseille... so whats your point???

by Jason Jarrett Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:23 am

The Joker wrote:a big team(s) have to reach the semifinals before facing a quality team....

Okey, I am specifically refering to Real Madrid, and to a certain degree also Bayern Munich(besides the groupstages) who have yet to face a quality team in the knock-out rounds. Real Madrid have yet to face a ''top''/strong/quality team in the whole competition this season. (no disprespect to Apoel, Ajax, Lyon, but these teams are not or no longer top/strong teams). Real Madrid's first ''test'' will most likely be Bayern Munich in the SEMIFINALS. the semifinals folks. it has been too easy. the teams they have faced, without disrespecting, are not teams that would be of knock-out stages quality just 5-6 years ago. these teams would be competing the lower europa league, not in the quarterfinals of the Champions League. not because these teams have gotten better, as some of you may argue, but simply because the once top teams are no longer at their former strength. Again NO DISRESPECT. IT's just boring Facts that is difficult to argue against.

Is it just me or is the lack of top teams in the worst of all times?

where are your once great Arsenal, Juventus, Valencia, Inter, Liverpool, Chelsea, Lyon, Ajax, Deportivo teams, and I could go on and on. So many top teams nowadays are absolute shadow of themselves. not because they don't have money, but simply because there not that many top players around to be spread around all these top clubs as it once (6-10 years ago) was the case.

The last 5 years imo have seen football decline drastically with la liga becoming an ever increasing 2 team competition, the premier league becoming a 2 team competition, while at best 3 teams, the Serie A is also a two team competition (wether italians admit it or not).

while the Champions League has gotten really noticably weak in the last 2-3 seasons. last season the the quarterfinals were the most onesided afairs in the history of the competition, with the eventuall semifinalists (barca, madrid, utd, schalke) all winning both home and away and with big big scores too in the quarterfinals, the semifinals were pretty onesided as well with Man Utd winning 6-1 on aggregate without any trouble at all and the same with Barca, although with a 3-1 aggregate over Real Madrid. It was simply too easy, not these teams were gods, but it was just too easy. the competition was weak. and now we see it again this season in the champions league. with teams like Apoel, Benfica, Marseille and to a certain degree an alltime weak chelsea making the quarterfinals is a clear indication that football as a healthy competition is going the wrong way in terms of quality/competitiveness. 10 years ago teams that weak wouldn't even come out of the groupstages, let alone making it all the way to the quarterfinals. again not because these so called ''small teams'' are strong, but simply because the competition they have faced have been relatively of low quality.

Now I don't want you think I am nostalgic. I am not, first of all i am lover of Football, and I love healthy competition. That's what makes football so interisting. That there are 90+ minutes of football, and 11 men vs 11 men, with the outcome first know after the 90+ minutes. But these days football as a competition to watch is not as interisting any more. Specially the top tournaments are too predictable. the quality of competition is decreasing. as a lover of the beautiflu game I hope competition get better in the upcoming years. right now it's simply too predictibale and that is what makes uninteristing/boring.

Btw. I have no specific team that I support. I just watch like to watch quality football matches, where both teams can defeat each other. what is not the case in top competition very often nowadays.

okey thanx for reading and i hope we can have a healthy discussion about this topic, as fans of this beatufil healthy sports competition.

I agree.the one problem,is that you get little clubs like Udinese who finish in the Champions League spots,sell all their top players and then can't compete.Plus,in some cases,some clubs who finish in the CL spots in some countries are less-suited to the CL thant he teams they beat for a spot domestically

by izzy Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:25 am

REWB wrote:fking helll, i didnt want to bring up the last 7 years because RM weren’t that strong in the CL, but the last two years RM have been making it past the last 16 have they not? and im saying RM have had easier teams than what other big teams have had to face. When is the last time RM faced a man utd, chelsea, bayern to get to the semis? all they have had to face a weeker Milan side, fck me is it that hard to understand?

This is exactly what i'm talking about. Bring up the last 7 years. Please bring it up and look who we played. Don't give methis two year bullshit as a way of trying to make yourself seem right when your so far gone it's unreal.

Bayern
Juventus
Arsenal
Roma
Liverpool
Lyon x2
Barcelona
Spurs
CSKA
Apoel

Look at the scrubs on that list. Joke teams they are.
Oh i'm sorry, only the last two years count as thats when Madrid have been in Europe. You know whats so lolworthy about this is when othe teams get piss easy groups and say shit about it.

by Jason Jarrett Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 am

The problem is with the R16 being a knock out phase instead of a 2nd Group stage,the minnows can cause 1 upset,but doing it again is a massive task.It happened last season with Shakhtar,Schalke and Spurs.they caused 1 big upset each and credit to them,but second time around,against Real,ManU,Barca,it ain't gonna happen twice.

by Zealous Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 am

Arsenal have been getting the easiest group in the CL for years now. YEARS.

by izzy Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:30 am

Zealous wrote:Arsenal have been getting the easiest group in the CL for years now. YEARS.

Shhhhhhh!!!

Secret.

by halamadrid2 Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:31 am

Jason Jarrett wrote:The problem is with the R16 being a knock out phase instead of a 2nd Group stage,the minnows can cause 1 upset,but doing it again is a massive task.It happened last season with Shakhtar,Schalke and Spurs.they caused 1 big upset each and credit to them,but second time around,against Real,ManU,Barca,it ain't gonna happen twice.

well Apoel caused a number of upsets, both to their group and to their L16 opponent, of course it would be too much to ask for when they are up against one of the favourites to win the title

Man U were knocked out in the group stage where there a more games to redeem your mistakes from one game and so on.....

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