Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career

Just a side issue to this debate...

Even in current Serie A, Cavani (a striker of undoubted quality and class) is top scorer but with only 26 goals at the moment.

That's typical of Serie A over all of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capocannoniere

It's rare for someone to score over 30 goals in a season. On several occasions the top scorer hasn't even managed 20 goals. Very often, around 25 goals is enough to win Capocannoniere. Maradona even won it himself with only 15 goals in a season. The highest ever is 35 goals in a season.

It is and almost always has been much harder to score in Serie A than anywhere else.

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica... stop saying silly things.

Libertadores was a massive south american league that played the best against the best. It made European CL look like a lesser competition until the mid 80s. Just ask Liverpool, who was supposed to be the best team that ever lived in 1981, gas they got trounced by Zico's Flamengo 3-0.

The Campeonato Brasileiro Serie A was formed in 1959. Pele started his career in 1956 at the age of 16. The Paulista League, which you refer to as a regional tournament, has teams such as Santos, Sao Paolo, Palmeiras and Corinthians, who were the cream of the crop of club football from the 50s until the early 80s.

The years where Pele competed in those tournaments with Santos were fierce in terms of quality and competition.

Come on dude lol.

Libertadores? Yeah Pele scored almost 18 goals of 767 in that competition.

Campeanato Serie A was formed in 1971, the real Brazilian league, and in which Pele scored almost 35 goals of his 767.

Paulista was a regional league, where goal scoring averages were almost 3,5 per game.

Second time I teach you this, you no learn easily?

juveman17 wrote:People actually think La Liga now can compare to Serie A on Maradonas time

Maradona changed calcio completely by leading a southern to its first scudetto ever. He truly made Napoli a world class club. There was no such thing as 30-40 goal seasons with the teams Maradona was playing. You just simply cannot compare these two eras.

Nobody compared the leagues, Serie-A was harder to score, but in relation Messi is still much better scorer.

And Maradona wasn't even the best player of Napoli in 86-87.

Here's best Goalscorers All-Time (Official Matches)

1. Bican, Josef (Austria, Bohemia/Moravia) 805+
2. Romário (Brazil) 772
3. Pelé (Brazil) 767
4. Puskás, Ferenc (Hungary) 746+
5. Müller, Gerd (Germany) 735
6. Deák, Ferenc (Hungary) 576+
7. Seeler, Uwe (Germany) 575
8. Willimowski, Ernst (Poland, Germany) 554+
9. Eusébio (Portugal) 552
10. McGrory, James (Scotland) 550
11. Binder, Franz (Austria) 546+
12. Peyroteo, Fernando (Portugal) 544
13. Sánchez, Hugo (Mexico) 541+
14. Walter, Fritz (Germany) 539+
15. Takacs II, Jozsef (Hungary) 523+
16. Zsengeller, Gyula (Hungary) 522+
17. Zico (Brazil) 522
18. Tulio „Maravilha“ (Brazil) 515+ *
19. di Stéfano, Alfredo (Argentina, Spain) 514+
20. Krankl, Johann (Austria) 514
21. Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) 513+
22. Roberto Dinamite (Brazil) 512
23. Greaves, Jimmy (England) 511
24. Bene, Ferenc (Hungary) 508+
25. Sarosi, Gyorg, Dr. (Hungary) 495+
26. Kocsis, Sandor (Hungary) 493+
27. Schlosser, Imre (Hungary) 489+
28. Larsson, Henrik (Sweden) 470+

If Messi can continue like this through his prime, I see him beat everybody. And unlike most people in that list, every Messi's goal is scored in top national and international level.

If Messi keeps hiding from big games like he did against Bayern then he might have trouble reaching that number.

For someone hiding, I saw awfully much of him.

It's not our fault the camera kept panning to the bench.

VivaStPauli wrote:It's not our fault the camera kept panning to the bench.

BOOM

Harmonica wrote:

juveman17 wrote:People actually think La Liga now can compare to Serie A on Maradonas time

Maradona changed calcio completely by leading a southern to its first scudetto ever. He truly made Napoli a world class club. There was no such thing as 30-40 goal seasons with the teams Maradona was playing. You just simply cannot compare these two eras.

Nobody compared the leagues, Serie-A was harder to score, but in relation Messi is still much better scorer.

And Maradona wasn't even the best player of Napoli in 86-87.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Harmonica.

Here. Educate yourself about Brazil league a bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Brasileiro_S%C3%A9rie_A

You are so foolish. It's like saying CL didn't exist before 1992 because it changed formats.

And lol on your lack of knowledge about anything not involving Messi.

sportsczy wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

juveman17 wrote:People actually think La Liga now can compare to Serie A on Maradonas time

Maradona changed calcio completely by leading a southern to its first scudetto ever. He truly made Napoli a world class club. There was no such thing as 30-40 goal seasons with the teams Maradona was playing. You just simply cannot compare these two eras.

Nobody compared the leagues, Serie-A was harder to score, but in relation Messi is still much better scorer.

And Maradona wasn't even the best player of Napoli in 86-87.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica.

Here. Educate yourself about Brazil league a bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Brasileiro_S%C3%A9rie_A

You are so foolish. It's like saying CL didn't exist before 1992 because it changed formats.

And lol on your lack of knowledge about anything not involving Messi.

Before 1971, there was Taca Brazil which was national cup format competition and Taca de Prata, which was reminiscent of half a league, but which was contested only between 5 states of the overall 27 in Brazil. Full Brazilian national league was started in 1971.

Aren't you almost 40, how can you be so ignorant at that age?

A few points:

This topic doesn't mean to imply that Messi is better, only that at age 25 Messi has already scored more goals than Maradona.

You can't pull the "Maradona played in Iniesta's position and hence had a more creative responsibility and scored less goals" card while at the same time criticizing Messi for not scoring in the WC, where he was played as an AM.

The Pichichi and Capocannoniere records before 2008 are pretty much the same for La Liga and Serie A over the past decade, just because Messi scores 40-50 goals in a season doesn't mean everyone can.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Dude, you (as in Harmonica) and supermag need to form a club. Supermag can give scouting reports on current players and you can write essays on the history of football. I'm sure you'll win an award... although it won't be the one you hoped for

BarrileteCosmico wrote:A few points:

This topic doesn't mean to imply that Messi is better, only that at age 25 Messi has already scored more goals than Maradona.

You can't pull the "Maradona played in Iniesta's position and hence had a more creative responsibility and scored less goals" card while at the same time criticizing Messi for not scoring in the WC, where he was played as an AM.

The Pichichi and Capocannoniere records before 2008 are pretty much the same for La Liga and Serie A over the past decade, just because Messi scores 40-50 goals in a season doesn't mean everyone can.

Point is though, that Diego played as a AM in WC 1986 and scored 5 goals with 5 assists (2nd in goals as Lineker had 6 and tops in assists). He dominated the competition and carried the NT to WC glory despite the team not figuring amongst the favorites. To equate... it would have been like CR7 taking Portugal to a WC title in 2010. Similar positions in terms of expectations going into the tournament.

Messi has had an amazing club career. But you cannot take away what Maradonna did in WCs and what he did for an underdog Napoli. The guy was from another planet too.

Harmonica wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica.

Here. Educate yourself about Brazil league a bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Brasileiro_S%C3%A9rie_A

You are so foolish. It's like saying CL didn't exist before 1992 because it changed formats.

And lol on your lack of knowledge about anything not involving Messi.

Before 1971, there was Taca Brazil which was national cup format competition and Taca de Prata, which was reminiscent of half a league, but which was contested only between 5 states of the overall 27 in Brazil. Full Brazilian national league was started in 1971.

Aren't you almost 40, how can you be so ignorant at that age?

Can I have Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool with this?

sportsczy wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:A few points:

This topic doesn't mean to imply that Messi is better, only that at age 25 Messi has already scored more goals than Maradona.

You can't pull the "Maradona played in Iniesta's position and hence had a more creative responsibility and scored less goals" card while at the same time criticizing Messi for not scoring in the WC, where he was played as an AM.

The Pichichi and Capocannoniere records before 2008 are pretty much the same for La Liga and Serie A over the past decade, just because Messi scores 40-50 goals in a season doesn't mean everyone can.

Point is though, that Diego played as a AM in WC 1986 and scored 5 goals with 5 assists (2nd in goals as Lineker had 6 and tops in assists). He dominated the competition and carried the NT to WC glory despite the team not figuring amongst the favorites. To equate... it would have been like CR7 taking Portugal to a WC title in 2010. Similar positions in terms of expectations going into the tournament.

Messi has had an amazing club career. But you cannot take away what Maradonna did in WCs and what he did for an underdog Napoli. The guy was from another planet too.

Why are you looking 7 games of the career? Selective much? And almost forty?

i'm done with you dude. It takes a minimum IQ to learn and you don't meet the requirement lol.

sportsczy wrote:i'm done with you dude. It takes a minimum IQ to learn and you don't meet the requirement lol.

Based on the evidence in this thread, I would say so, and I'm talking about you.

Harmonica wrote:

sportsczy wrote:i'm done with you dude. It takes a minimum IQ to learn and you don't meet the requirement lol.

Based on the evidence in this thread, I would say so, and I'm talking about you.

Yeah... good luck in life. You'll need it.

Correction, I don't need luck, I've my intelligence to rely on. Unlike someone we know.

Did you just quote yourself, to agree with yourself?

Keep telling yourself that. Positive reinforcement might work.

Point is though, that Diego played as a AM in WC 1986 and scored 5 goals with 5 assists (2nd in goals as Lineker had 6 and tops in assists). He dominated the competition and carried the NT to WC glory despite the team not figuring amongst the favorites. To equate... it would have been like CR7 taking Portugal to a WC title in 2010. Similar positions in terms of expectations going into the tournament.

Messi has had an amazing club career. But you cannot take away what Maradonna did in WCs and what he did for an underdog Napoli. The guy was from another planet too.

What are you talking about? Argentina won the WC only 8 years ago, it would be nothing like CR taking Portugal to the title. Not to mention that Maradona was the team's star in 1982 when they were very clearly one of the favorites.

Also Maradona was 26 in the 1986, when he played a WC at 22 he flopped, was man-marked out of the game and had very little effect. I'm not taking anything away from him, but if Maradona were 25 today and had only won what he had won by age 25 there would be no question of who is better.

juveman17 wrote:People actually think La Liga now can compare to Serie A on Maradonas time

Maradona changed calcio completely by leading a southern to its first scudetto ever. He truly made Napoli a world class club. There was no such thing as 30-40 goal seasons with the teams Maradona was playing. You just simply cannot compare these two eras.

IIRC, it wasn't really that hard to do in serie a at that time, no? I mean didn't Sampdoria and Verona win their only Scudetto around those years as well? And IIRC, they didnt have a Maradona to lead them to the title.

And before you think that I am insulting Serie A, let me just say that what I said is more of a praise than anything. To be best league in the world and yet have teams that have never won a league compete for the title shows cow competitive and well organized the league was at the time..

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Point is though, that Diego played as a AM in WC 1986 and scored 5 goals with 5 assists (2nd in goals as Lineker had 6 and tops in assists). He dominated the competition and carried the NT to WC glory despite the team not figuring amongst the favorites. To equate... it would have been like CR7 taking Portugal to a WC title in 2010. Similar positions in terms of expectations going into the tournament.

Messi has had an amazing club career. But you cannot take away what Maradonna did in WCs and what he did for an underdog Napoli. The guy was from another planet too.

What are you talking about? Argentina won the WC only 8 years ago, it would be nothing like CR taking Portugal to the title. Not to mention that Maradona was the team's star in 1982 when they were very clearly one of the favorites.

Also Maradona was 26 in the 1986, when he played a WC at 22 he flopped, was man-marked out of the game and had very little effect. I'm not taking anything away from him, but if Maradona were 25 today and had only won what he had won by age 25 there would be no question of who is better.

If Messi goats the next WC, you're absolutely right. But as i've said, this coming WC is critical for Messi's legacy. He will always be one of the best ever... but how far up requires WC domination like all the other top players. You can't be in the top 5 ever without WC glory. It's impossible.