Re: La Liga 2013/14 Discussion

by punkfusion1992 Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Pippo wrote:
punkfusion1992 wrote:You keep talking of law 12 yet I don't think you know what it means. There is actually a very clear law about handballs, they have to be clear ball to arm. You cannot give a player no more than a yellow for the handball unless it has denied a clear goalscoring opportunity.
It was a clear ball to the arm; Nacho's arm was in an unnatural position. Of course a player would not be punished with something more than a yellow card, but that is exactly what Nacho deserved as punishment. The second yellow card would have resulted in a red card which meant that Nacho would have been sent off, which should have been the proper decision.
punkfusion1992 wrote:And as for the Sevilla goal. When contesting the ball in the air, a player cannot use his hands in a pushing motion nor can he use an opposing player to get a height advantage neither of which he does so technically it's a legal goal.
Cala did both. He used his hands in a pushing motion, and he used Alves as a lift to reach the header. It is easily noticeable in the gif, but since you are having difficulty seeing it, here is a zoomed in focus on Cala in the gif.

If you cannot see a pushing motion, or pushing Alves down to be a springboard for his leap, then you are clearly delusional.
punkfusion1992 wrote:Don't quote laws you have no idea about. Law 12 is a very vague argument to put forth for defending what you support
Evidently I do know what I am talking about. I clearly stated earlier that Nacho's arm was in an unnatural position, and since the ball made clear contact with his arm which impeded the progress of the ball in the 18-yard box, Nacho should have received a yellow card. And since that would have been his second yellow card, he would have been sent off. There is nothing wrong with what I have posted, it's just that you interpreted it in your own way to fit your own moronic agenda.

You just said it. It was ball to arm. Which means no foul. I has to be arm to ball. Ball to arm is unintentional. Here it was clearly unintentional.
And in the second gif, you are looking at the player when he was up in the air. But when he was on the ground he used no one to jump which means no foul

by free_cat Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:01 pm

Nacho's is not a voluntary handball, so not a penalty.
However, nice gif from the foul on alves, I thought that wasn't a foul but from that angle it's as clear as water.

by The Franchise Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:08 pm

Carvajal is just a normal run of the mill fullback. Not horrible but nothing special at all, even in 2-3 games thats obvious.

That "best in Bundesliga" stuff looking real funny to me.

by Valkyrja Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:59 pm

Carvajal is not Alba. Even if he is not tactically good in defense, he is very aggressive. Alba is just a failed winger.

by guest7 Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:05 pm

The Franchise wrote:Carvajal is just a normal run of the mill fullback. Not horrible but nothing special at all, even in 2-3 games thats obvious.

That "best in Bundesliga" stuff looking real funny to me.

Yup, it's so obvious only you were the one to notice it aswell.

Guess our scouts and journalist over in Germany are just too dumb to notice it themselves.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:06 pm

if alba is a failed winger then you are a failed poster.

Am i the only enjoying the quality of la liga teams? so many low budget teams that play excellent football: Schuster is running malaga well and they are playing great. Sevilla is a pacy team as always, dangerous and good to watch. Pepe Mel still doing his thing at Betis. Rayo are actually better than i expected. Villarreal look like they never left la liga. Bilbao are back. And the usual suspects in Valencia, Atletico, Sociedad etc... very good stuff

by The Franchise Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:07 pm

Journalists. Whenever I need an opinion on football, ill make sure I check with them first Rolling Eyes

by The Franchise Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:10 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:if alba is a failed winger then you are a failed poster.

Am i the only enjoying the quality of la liga teams? so many low budget teams that play excellent football: Schuster is running malaga well and they are playing great. Sevilla is a pacy team as always, dangerous and good to watch. Pepe Mel still doing his thing at Betis. Rayo are actually better than i expected. Villarreal look like they never left la liga. Bilbao are back. And the usual suspects in Valencia, Atletico, Sociedad etc... very good stuff

Nope and I not even surprised.

All I hear is no money, no money, bla bla, but I felt for ages its a lame excuse. Smart scouting, great coaching and great teamwork > extra 30m signings

by Mr Nick09 Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:17 pm

Yeah of course, money isnt everything. Money mainly help to create depth, and that's the only thing some of the teams aspiring to stay up in the table will suffer from. But the quality of the football is still the best from what i am seeing.

by halamadrid2 Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:19 pm

I have always felt that way as well. I actually think its a good thing they haven't got enough money to maybe compete for the league because they would run themselves down financially with it anyways

they operate better when they are on a strict budget. These teams can win the cups I have no doubt about that but the league is probably out of their reach

by The Franchise Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:21 pm

Yeah, I agree with that.

Depth will/could be their un-doing more than anything, the quality is impressive.

I was genuinely impressed by the level of both Villareal and Malaga in the games vs Madrid and Barca.

Sevilla did well to fight last night, but really Barca had many chances to go 3 up before the half and it would of been a different game.

But yes, some impressive performances thus far by various teams.

by Pip Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:40 pm

punkfusion1992 wrote:You just said it. It was ball to arm. Which means no foul. I has to be arm to ball. Ball to arm is unintentional. Here it was clearly unintentional.

How does a "ball to arm" scenario never constitute a handball? I quote former official David Elleray on the topic of involuntary/voluntary handballs when he states: "Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" He then goes on to say: "If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed."

In this case, Nacho's arm was clearly in an unnatural position. There was no need for his arm to be in such an outstretched position. His arm impeded the progress of the ball, so it should have earned a penalty in my opinion. It would have been a harsh call since it was deflected from his foot, but once again, there was no need for his arm to be in such an outstretched position.

punkfusion1992 wrote:And in the second gif, you are looking at the player when he was up in the air. But when he was on the ground he used no one to jump which means no foul

That is a terrible argument. You are essentially contradicting what you have said previously: "When contesting the ball in the air, a player cannot use his hands in a pushing motion nor can he use an opposing player to get a height advantage neither of which he does so technically it's a legal goal." Cala does not need to use someone to jump, seeing as how he has enough power in his leg muscles to lift himself into the air for a short period of time. However, he did need to use Dani Alves' shoulders in order to have a more favourable heading situation. It is a very clear foul and you are ignoring it for an asinine reason.

by Le Samourai Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:44 pm

Carvajal was probably our best defender yesterday - at least 2-3 times he came across saved certain goals. He has been fine, much better than Arbeloa was in any given game last season.

Tugging, jumping on people, this nonsense is what it is. Referees give it whenever they feel like it. It's the most inconsistently applied bunch of rules you'll ever see.

The Sevilla player jumped over whoever was just standing there, and then came down on him. Did he hinder the Barcelona player from going up in the process? Definitely. If Busquets had jumped into him a millisecond earlier, would it have prevented him from scoring the goal? Also Yes.

Would he have gotten a penalty? No.

This isn't something worth getting mad over. When Nesta gets sent off over some nonsense in an important match with absolutely 0 historical precedent for it...then you get a bit of anger. This is just something that will continue to be called arbitrarily and there's no way to stop it.

by harhar11 Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:53 pm

Pippo wrote:or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be

Correct me if I am wrong, but this rule doesn't actually exist, right?

The only rule that is about the position of the hand, says that it doesn't matter if the hand is in a unnatural position.

by Onyx Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Defensively we need a pure DM who is going to play in front of the defense without attacking. Illarramendi didn't do that and Khedira doesn't do that either.

Secondly the defense needs to be narrower and Varane needs to quickly return to replace Pepe. The pressing needs to be more intense too.

Also defensively we need to be more organised. The 2nd goal we conceded, Bale didn't track back, which meant there was a line of 3 in midfield, instead of 4.

by CBarca Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:00 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:if alba is a failed winger then you are a failed poster.

Am i the only enjoying the quality of la liga teams? so many low budget teams that play excellent football: Schuster is running malaga well and they are playing great. Sevilla is a pacy team as always, dangerous and good to watch. Pepe Mel still doing his thing at Betis. Rayo are actually better than i expected. Villarreal look like they never left la liga. Bilbao are back. And the usual suspects in Valencia, Atletico, Sociedad etc... very good stuff

Yeah I completely agree.

by CBarca Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:22 pm

That goal from Betis was :bow:

Looked like Barca, just sliced right through the middle of Valencia.

by Arquitecto Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:53 pm

100% agree with Nick & Dani. Serie A has seen a massive jump in footballing quality yet still dwarfs in comparison (along with all other leagues) when you watch La Liga footy. Hearing all this guff about no money (always through PL fan mouths) yet the football is magnificent as always and doesn't have me banging my head on the wall, to when I watch PL & BuLi, to which have dropped in quality.

As for Carvajal, I don't recall Lars Bender covering for Carvajal often considering he was far too vertical last season and seldom provided cover. If anything, that example would be apt more to David Alaba, who has his ass covered by the tremendous athlete that is Ribery. Without Ribery he is exposed for the naive fullback that he is.

by jibers Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:30 pm

Man this game is the best game I've seen all weekend. Pepe Mel ffs :bow:

This man should be Madrid manager. Betis play such an entertaining brand of football. The quality in la liga embarrasses the epl

by LeSwagg James Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:43 pm

Just saw Barca's last minute goal :facepalm:

by Collblanc Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:11 am

Messi

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:46 am

anyone got a gif of Montoya reminding the Sevilla bench who the one paying the reffs wages are after Barcas last goal hmm

by Collblanc Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:00 am

halamadrid2 wrote:anyone got a gif of Montoya reminding the Sevilla bench who the one paying the reffs wages are after Barcas last goal

Why would we pay the ref? Because of the disallowed goal? That was a foul. Now im getting really sick of you dirty madrid fans trying to discredit barca on every occasion. should get -25% off for every dirty post you make on this forum.

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:06 am

Collblanc wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:anyone got a gif of Montoya reminding the Sevilla bench who the one paying the reffs wages are after Barcas last goal
Why would we pay the ref? Because of the disallowed goal? That was a foul. Now im getting really sick of you dirty madrid fans trying to discredit barca on every occasion. should get -25% off for every dirty post you make on this forum.

I am talking about montoyas gesture after your last goal not the falsly disallowed goal

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KN5oh3x6qH0

by Collblanc Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:09 am

Why would you imply that we payed the ref? Where is the proof? You're just trying to troll.

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:12 am

Collblanc wrote:Why would you imply that we payed the ref? Where is the proof? You're just trying to troll.

Because he does a money gesture and points at the reff how hard could it be? or wait he was referring to a bet right?

he probably did it as a joke but he knows barca have got that reputation so he uses it to take a dig at the sevilla players

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