Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
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Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Jay29 Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:40 pm
As with last weekend, I'll take a closer look at the goals when the highlights become available. I'll be posting up my thoughts in a few minutes, too.
That was pretty good, wasn't it?
That was pretty good, wasn't it?
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by EL Patron Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:46 pm
Fenerbache were very poor, I was expecting much more of a challenge. Overall it is a good win for morale but we must improve our attacking play in the final third, we look really average going forward.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by REWB Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:54 pm
REWB wrote:so how comes teams like celtic get to draw easy teams but we draw hard teams? either way with everyone fit this will be an easy win for us imo, we'll finish them off at the emirates.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by REWB Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:01 pm
walcott is literally our most important player, without him making run we will never score goals, NEVER.EL Patron wrote:Fenerbache were very poor, I was expecting much more of a challenge. Overall it is a good win for morale but we must improve our attacking play in the final third, we look really average going forward.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by EL Patron Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:12 pm
Yeah, everytime Santi or Rosicky finds space they are always looking for Theos run in behind the fullback.REWB wrote:walcott is literally our most important player, without him making run we will never score goals, NEVER.EL Patron wrote:Fenerbache were very poor, I was expecting much more of a challenge. Overall it is a good win for morale but we must improve our attacking play in the final third, we look really average going forward.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by lenear1030 Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:16 pm
REWB wrote:walcott is literally our most important player, without him making run we will never score goals, NEVER.EL Patron wrote:Fenerbache were very poor, I was expecting much more of a challenge. Overall it is a good win for morale but we must improve our attacking play in the final third, we look really average going forward.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by boyzis Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:25 pm
If you guys are considering this a good performance 
if they had a decent striker we would have conceded more than we would have scored.
like the past ramsey, wilshere is not currently being played in his best position. consider both arsenal goals which come because wilshere drived forward with the ball, the way he defends is just not just suited to his current role, i still maintain instead of playing cazorla on the left wing we should willshere there.
if they had a decent striker we would have conceded more than we would have scored.
like the past ramsey, wilshere is not currently being played in his best position. consider both arsenal goals which come because wilshere drived forward with the ball, the way he defends is just not just suited to his current role, i still maintain instead of playing cazorla on the left wing we should willshere there.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Jay29 Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:28 pm
First thing's first, it has to be said that Fenerbahce were very average tonight. Their passing was very poor and they had no one in their side that could get on the ball and cause us problems either by running at players or picking out a pass. That made things a lot more comfortable for our backline. Kuyt, Sow and Webo aren't going to hurt you much if they're detached from the game.
I thought we kept the ball very well and our midfield worked very hard to get the ball back. I kept a close eye on the Ramsey/Wilshere pivot and spotted some interesting things. When we had the ball, Ramsey stayed deep while Wilshere looked to get forward. Without the ball, Ramsey pressed the opposition player while Wilshere tended to stay back. I'm not entirely sure why they interchanged like that but it's interesting nonetheless. Defensively they were hardly tested as nobody made runs or drifted in behind them.
In the second half they seemed to decide who would stay back all the time, with Wilshere playing deeper and Ramsey pushing onwards. This worked out well since Ramsey was in the better form and could find that final pass that we were lacking in the first half.
We did get into promising positions in the first half but lacked end product; the final pass was over hit or the cut-back/cross not good enough. We didn't get enough bodies in the box either, but that's nothing new. As soon as we improved that part of our game we created a great opportunity and scored.
I thought that after we got one, we could easily get a couple more as Fenerbahce were just so poor. I was pleased that we managed to do that without stretching ourselves too far and without doing anything too silly. We did allow them a couple of chances that we, perhaps, shouldn't have but we were in control the whole second half.
This result should see us through to the group stages. Hopefully we can perform with the same maturity and composure at Fulham on Saturday, and with any luck we'll buy a defender (as we're woefully short of bodies at the back) and a holding player (imagine Wilshere/Ramsey backed up by a good holding midfielder).
Overall, very good result but we shouldn't let it paper over the cracks.
I thought we kept the ball very well and our midfield worked very hard to get the ball back. I kept a close eye on the Ramsey/Wilshere pivot and spotted some interesting things. When we had the ball, Ramsey stayed deep while Wilshere looked to get forward. Without the ball, Ramsey pressed the opposition player while Wilshere tended to stay back. I'm not entirely sure why they interchanged like that but it's interesting nonetheless. Defensively they were hardly tested as nobody made runs or drifted in behind them.
In the second half they seemed to decide who would stay back all the time, with Wilshere playing deeper and Ramsey pushing onwards. This worked out well since Ramsey was in the better form and could find that final pass that we were lacking in the first half.
We did get into promising positions in the first half but lacked end product; the final pass was over hit or the cut-back/cross not good enough. We didn't get enough bodies in the box either, but that's nothing new. As soon as we improved that part of our game we created a great opportunity and scored.
I thought that after we got one, we could easily get a couple more as Fenerbahce were just so poor. I was pleased that we managed to do that without stretching ourselves too far and without doing anything too silly. We did allow them a couple of chances that we, perhaps, shouldn't have but we were in control the whole second half.
This result should see us through to the group stages. Hopefully we can perform with the same maturity and composure at Fulham on Saturday, and with any luck we'll buy a defender (as we're woefully short of bodies at the back) and a holding player (imagine Wilshere/Ramsey backed up by a good holding midfielder).
Overall, very good result but we shouldn't let it paper over the cracks.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by SamuelJayC Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 pm
Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. 
Outstanding team performance, admittedly against a poor Fenerbahce side - expected more from them.
Ramsey, Rosicky and Cazorla were brilliant. Walcott was good and bad, but still crucial in the outcome of the game.
Giroud held the ball up superbly and won many headers. Cool penalty too.
Sagna & Mertesacker
Outstanding team performance, admittedly against a poor Fenerbahce side - expected more from them.
Ramsey, Rosicky and Cazorla were brilliant. Walcott was good and bad, but still crucial in the outcome of the game.
Giroud held the ball up superbly and won many headers. Cool penalty too.
Sagna & Mertesacker
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Sri Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:43 pm
GoonerJay29 wrote:Overall, very good result but we shouldn't let it paper over the cracks.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Jay29 Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:48 pm
For me, that just sums up Walcott as a player. His general play is often sloppy and sometimes attacks break down because of it, which is really frustrating. However, get him into good positions and he'll, more often than not, produce something.Walcott was good and bad, but still crucial in the outcome of the game.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Lex Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:55 pm
Here's the thing. When people talk about Bale, they only ever talk about his goals. No-one seems to talk about the dozen or so spurned chances he had, or the half dozen long shots that went woefully off target. Walcott seems to be different, in that people seem to want to talk about all his foibles and failures instead of his achievements. Without Walcott, we probably would have just about scraped past Fener tonight
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Sina Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:34 am
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSOGNGRCYAAtlYu.png
Dat Passion
-------------
if we had a more Mobile striker with Better dribbling/pace and comfy coming deep and act as another passer/auxiliary midfielder that would give us flexibility and perhaps Arsene then can play with 2 wide forwards and we still having enough ballers
more variety in movement and less predictabel
Dat Passion
-------------
if we had a more Mobile striker with Better dribbling/pace and comfy coming deep and act as another passer/auxiliary midfielder that would give us flexibility and perhaps Arsene then can play with 2 wide forwards and we still having enough ballers
more variety in movement and less predictabel
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by 6unner Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:36 am
Was he actually on the left wing? Don't remember seeing him there. He runs all over the pitch following the ball around. If he was on the left wing, then he would have scored the goal that Gibbs did.boyzis wrote:If you guys are considering this a good performance
if they had a decent striker we would have conceded more than we would have scored.
like the past ramsey, wilshere is not currently being played in his best position. consider both arsenal goals which come because wilshere drived forward with the ball, the way he defends is just not just suited to his current role, i still maintain instead of playing cazorla on the left wing we should willshere there.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by CBarca Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:44 am
Fener were absolutely dire. Thought they might put up a challenge, especially in Turkey. They looked like a championship team. I was surprised.
Arsenal played decently.
Arsenal played decently.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by EL Patron Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:45 am
He doesn't actually hug the touch line like a traditional winger, he is allowed a free role.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Sina Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:01 am
http://i.minus.com/i8trw4MUPNHzE.gif
i thought he may just overplay and then recycle it waywards
well done Aaron
i thought he may just overplay and then recycle it waywards
well done Aaron
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Jay29 Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:30 am
Highlights are up, so it's analysis time. Main theme: decision making.
- Arsenal's First Goal:
Above, you can see that Ramsey had the option of playing the ball to Walcott or Jenkinson. However, he opted not to. This was possibly because of the proximity between Walcott and the Fenerbahce left back, Kadlec. Although Walcott would have received the ball in that position, his space to play a cross or have a shot on goal would have been limited.
Ramsey checked back onto his left in order to retain the ball and look for other options. Although he may not have seen him, Ramsey did have the option of playing a pass to Kieran Gibbs over on the left, or simply rolling the ball in the space in front of Giroud. He took neither, instead going back onto his right foot.
The vital thing here was that Fenerbahce's backline had pushed up a couple of yards so that they were in a better position to step out and intercept any pass Ramsey made. While those couple of yards may not appear much, it's all a speedy player like Walcott needs to get in behind and make a difference. It was at this point that Ramsey finally released the ball on the inside of Kadlec, who was watching the ball instead of the run of Walcott.
Here we can the see the difference that little bit of extra space in behind made. Kadlec was no where Walcott, who had the time to look up and spot Gibbs at the back post. The backtracking Fenerbahce defenders were unable to cut out the ball - perhaps they would have been able to if they were a yard or two deeper at the time of the pass - and Gibbs put it in.
As obvious as it sounds, this goal happened because of Ramsey and Walcott both making the right decision. Ramsey waited for a better opening to appear before playing his pass when he could have played a less penetrative pass earlier, while Walcott had the option of going for goal instead of picking out Gibbs at the back post. These are the sorts of decisions that neither player probably wouldn't have made a couple of seasons ago; Ramsey, during his first season back from injury, would have either dallied on the ball until he lost it or would have forced a final ball, while Walcott would have gone for goal.
- Arsenal's Second Goal:
Unfortunately, the highlight started after Wilshere's run with the ball, so I can't show you the importance of that run. Wilshere has the ability to run with the ball into advanced positions and this attracts players to him (and, subsequently, a lot fouls). In doing so, it frees up space for other players - Ramsey, in this instance.
This was an extremely favourable position for Arsenal. Ramsey had the ball in plenty of room, and had four runners to choose from: Wilshere, who continued his run untracked by player 1; Giroud, who made a move to occupy the centre backs; Cazorla, who made a move into the vast amount of space ahead of him and Walcott, who could make a run in behind Kadlec again.
Now Ramsey had a decision to make: 1) he could have slipped in Wilshere, 2) he could have laid it off for Cazorla who could have then either take a shot at goal or play in Walcott or 3) go by himself. Playing well and full of confidence, he decided to go on his own.
This was one of those situations where had Ramsey not scored, we would have criticised him for not passing to someone in a better position. As we can see here, Cazorla and Walcott remained viable passing options and were, arguably, in better positions to either play a final pass or take a shot on goal. Fortunately, Ramsey's decision paid off as his shot ended up going, though the keeper should have done better.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Raptorgunner Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:50 am
Well done Arsenal, now we can concentrate on EPL and transfer window. I dont care who we play, winning 3-0 is a great result and I hope we can continue on the weekend.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by The Verminator Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:32 am
Ok maybe this is just me but, is anyone else worried about Podolski? I'm sure everyone will point out that he's not match fit but everytime a midfielder like Cazorla was making a run forward, Podolski would just drop back behind them, even though he's already in front of them. His movement seemed very off. He didn't run forward and try provide an extra option upfront, he seemed reluctant to get in the box too when crosses where being played in. I dunno if it's laziness on his part or just poor movement. I can't put this down to match fitness. He only had to play 10 minutes.
Yet at the same time i feel that Podolski has the potential to rack up alot of goals this season but won't do so as he seems he'll be coming of the bench alot this season.
Am I the only one concerned?
Yet at the same time i feel that Podolski has the potential to rack up alot of goals this season but won't do so as he seems he'll be coming of the bench alot this season.
Am I the only one concerned?
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Jay29 Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:37 am
He came on when the team was already 3-0 up. Most players wouldn't exert much effort in that situation as there's no need to - the game's won, so why risk injury?
Other times it might be poor movement, but tonight it was just laziness.
Other times it might be poor movement, but tonight it was just laziness.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by The Verminator Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:45 am
Yea your probably right about that. I think i was just overreacting. I just thought that with him being on bench and all that he'd give his all to try and get back into the first 11.GoonerJay29 wrote:He came on when the team was already 3-0 up. Most players wouldn't exert much effort in that situation as there's no need to - the game's won, so why risk injury?
Other times it might be poor movement, but tonight it was just laziness.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Wilson37 Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:34 am
nice game.. expected it to be a bigger challenge.. but Fenerbahce were average.. we were able to hold the ball in midfield and win it back.. their absence of the energy in the game too made our job easy..
positives...
- i am happy that Walcott is playing now more like a true winger, more selfless and happy to cross more than cutting in and trying to shoot always. if he can find the correct balance he is going to be terrific for us.
- Ramsey is getting better and better. more importantly into the habit of scoring and assisting. he is now producing those through balls and long passes, especially for Walcott, more consisitently..
- Giroud is certainly more confident and sharper this season
- Sagna again looked good as CB (despite of any little challenge that Fenerbahce offered), Jenko looked good and Monreal is back
negatives..
- another injury. Kos this time. i dont know what is stopping us from keeping it so late to sign players. we are terribly short and have to play the same 11 everyday if we want to have any chance of winning. the only sub striker is Sanogo. sub midfielder is Frimpong. and the only sub defender is Jenkinson.
- Cazorla is still unfit or matchfit and nowhere near his best.
positives...
- i am happy that Walcott is playing now more like a true winger, more selfless and happy to cross more than cutting in and trying to shoot always. if he can find the correct balance he is going to be terrific for us.
- Ramsey is getting better and better. more importantly into the habit of scoring and assisting. he is now producing those through balls and long passes, especially for Walcott, more consisitently..
- Giroud is certainly more confident and sharper this season
- Sagna again looked good as CB (despite of any little challenge that Fenerbahce offered), Jenko looked good and Monreal is back
negatives..
- another injury. Kos this time. i dont know what is stopping us from keeping it so late to sign players. we are terribly short and have to play the same 11 everyday if we want to have any chance of winning. the only sub striker is Sanogo. sub midfielder is Frimpong. and the only sub defender is Jenkinson.
- Cazorla is still unfit or matchfit and nowhere near his best.
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Re: Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal: Poor Fenerbachce duly punished
by Sri Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:57 am
There are a couple of reasons I can envisage for Podolski's limited involvement in the 2 games, on the back of the preseason and our transfer activity.
1. Wenger's traditional tactic of using a lop-sided attack where the LW is usually someone who is given a free role, allowed to drift in and create problems. Think back to the Invincibles, think back to Arshavin, think back to Nasri - and now Cazorla - no traditional wingers. Against Aston Villa, we started Ox, who also drifted in and switched positions with Rosicky a few times.
2. Lack of a back-up striker. Podolski was the CF at Köln, it's his preferred position - even though majority of his club/country career has been as a LF, given his strong left foot. With just a 20 year old free signing as our back-up striker, if we do not manage to get somebody in for that role, I see us using Podolski as a back-up/rotation for LW as well as CF positions. We saw him get stints leading the line in preseason, when Giroud was suspended last season, and again last night when Giroud was withdrawn. This is by no means an ideal situation for him, nor for the club. But I can't help but imagine that a majority of his training sessions right now would be with him getting acclimatized to playing that position when the need arises.
We aren't privy to what's happening behind the scenes, but these are the only rationales I can think of.
Podolski is a brilliant player, one who I have admired since the '06 WC. I hope we see more of him this season.
1. Wenger's traditional tactic of using a lop-sided attack where the LW is usually someone who is given a free role, allowed to drift in and create problems. Think back to the Invincibles, think back to Arshavin, think back to Nasri - and now Cazorla - no traditional wingers. Against Aston Villa, we started Ox, who also drifted in and switched positions with Rosicky a few times.
2. Lack of a back-up striker. Podolski was the CF at Köln, it's his preferred position - even though majority of his club/country career has been as a LF, given his strong left foot. With just a 20 year old free signing as our back-up striker, if we do not manage to get somebody in for that role, I see us using Podolski as a back-up/rotation for LW as well as CF positions. We saw him get stints leading the line in preseason, when Giroud was suspended last season, and again last night when Giroud was withdrawn. This is by no means an ideal situation for him, nor for the club. But I can't help but imagine that a majority of his training sessions right now would be with him getting acclimatized to playing that position when the need arises.
We aren't privy to what's happening behind the scenes, but these are the only rationales I can think of.
Podolski is a brilliant player, one who I have admired since the '06 WC. I hope we see more of him this season.
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