Re: Boxing thread - Part 2

[Curtinho]

Wellll since none of you are going to get it started...

My favourite (and IMO best all time p4p in his prime) fighter of all time was Roy Jones Jr. Maybe you guys already discussed this earlier in the thread (I'll have to read through it at some point). Nobody touches RJJ for me...his unique combination of speed, power, reflexes and ring generalship were unmatched and his historic feat of climbing the weight classes (light mw to hw champ, even if Ruiz was a convenient HW to do it with) is really impressive. It sucks how he declined after making the drop to fight Tarver, but it was pretty obvious that the weight cut was not done properly or over a long enough period. I still have all of his fights on an external hard drive.

In terms of actually training I boxed for about 8 years (had to quit when I got married) but I got to train with Tyson Fury which was pretty cool.

[Unique]

Wellll since none of you are going to get it started...

My favourite (and IMO best all time p4p in his prime) fighter of all time was Roy Jones Jr. Maybe you guys already discussed this earlier in the thread (I'll have to read through it at some point). Nobody touches RJJ for me...his unique combination of speed, power, reflexes and ring generalship were unmatched and his historic feat of climbing the weight classes (light mw to hw champ, even if Ruiz was a convenient HW to do it with) is really impressive. It sucks how he declined after making the drop to fight Tarver, but it was pretty obvious that the weight cut was not done properly or over a long enough period. I still have all of his fights on an external hard drive.

In terms of actually training I boxed for about 8 years (had to quit when I got married) but I got to train with Tyson Fury which was pretty cool.

[Unique]

roy jones was so good he could tell you what shots he was going to throw and still land them.

[The Franchise]

I can imagine you guys are not the only RJJ fans, one of the best of al time. The best in my lifetime for sure.

[izzy]

Oscar is a moron....... http://mmajunkie.com/2015/11/oscar-de-la-hoya-says-hes-discussed-a-ronda-rousey-boxing-debut



Legit Boxing skills.......... I see what all these men are afraid of......

[dmize]

^

She pisses me off. Has the nerve to take shots at Floyd for domestic violence, then dates a woman beater herself. Hypocritical as f

[izzy]

Her (and the US Medias) hypocrisy is outrageous in regards to Floyd and Domestic Violence in general.

Also, would someone like to explain wtf she is actually doing in that gif? I still don't know..........

[The Franchise]

She cant box

I dont watch UFC, but I cant help but get this women's highlight put in front of my eyes. I have seen her fights and I have seen her training, she has no technique.

Ann Wolf would knock her head off.

[Curtinho]

I think it's kind of silly to judge her boxing based on a slowed down shadow boxing combo. To be honest you can take a lot of great boxers that look kind of weird with a shadow boxing routine. Not to mention MMA boxing is completely different from traditional boxing for a lot of reasons. She's an incredible athlete and very technical in the things that she works at. I think if she wanted to make the transition to boxing it wouldn't take her long to pick it up.

[izzy]

Dude come on......

There is no form there.
Look at the way her hands are moving? Look at how her head is positioned? Look at the way she draws her hands back to her chin? That's not even shadow boxing. That's WorldStar.

ALL OVER THE PLACE.

This is just a gif of her doing God knows what. I'm sure that if you search for a video of her sparring it wouldn't look much better.

[farfan]

Beating 7 of 10 ranked fighters really dont say much in a dead division.

160 is horribly average outside GGG himself, a blown up Jr Middle in Cotto and I guess Peter Qullin?

Andy Lee, Bily Joe Saunders, Lemieux and Daniel Geale? Who are these guys really? Good fightes, but nobody special at all. Cotto beat the same guys and nobody puts him higher than GGG.

When GGG fights at 154/155 catchweight vs Cotto, Canelo, Lara or goes up to fight Ward...then after that we can start talking about him as P4P best. Before those fights...meh.

and heavyweight isn't ?
you think beating Stiverne , who's only claim to fame is winning a vacant belt and beating *bleep* Areola makes Wilder's resume equal or better than GGG's ?

[The Franchise]

Of course it is poor. But I am not here saying Wilder has some amazing record which means he deserves to be one of the best p4p. That division is poor and so is MW, so you simply cannot put him as one of the best fighters based on his record.

All I said in the first place was Wilder has just as much claim (by his record) to be one of the best p4p, but we all know he isnt.


GGG says he wont fight the winner of Canelo/Cotto at 155 catchweight (though fighting Floyd at 154 would have been fine ) so I guess we have to wait to see where GGG winds up.

[farfan]

i don't think Golovkin is P4P either, but implying that Wilder has a comparable resume is way off base imo .


GGG shouldn't fight the winner of Canelo / Cotto at 155 nor should he get heat for it .. when exactly did a lineal champion draining his opponents 5 Lbs bellow the weight limit became acceptable ?
dropping a weight class to have a crack at the greatest fighter of your generation is one thing , draining yourself just to fight the champion of your weight class when you're already the mandatory challenger is just nonsense and sets a bad precedent.

[izzy]

No, he deserves heat for it.

They shouldn't be asking for that 155 CW. It's nonsense........... But, GGG and his Team tried to act like they were calling the shots, like they were the A-Side in discussions and acting like Cotto (A future HOF) and Canelo need GGG.

Then his PPV does 100-150k buys and they literally lost all bargaining chips they have. It also doesn't help that they said that they would beat EVERYONE from 154-168 and then ask Andre Ward to fight at a CW of 164 but agree to fight Froch and Chavez Jr at 168. He's OK with CWs when they favor him etc etc you know the rest.

Karma really.

[The Franchise]

Eh, Wilder does have a comparable resume. GGG is a far superior fighter with far superior skils, but on the paper they arent much different at all. Neither have beaten another elite opponent and they knock everyone else out as they are so much better.

Anyway..I am sure GGG doesnt want to fight because it sets a bad precedent and not because he fears what might happen at that weight

Look, GGG doesnt have to fight at that weight if he doesnt want to. But at this point, he is 33 years old and if he wants to fight Cotto or Canelo he has to face reality. The reality is, while he might be the better fighter, they are the bigger names in the sport. So, they get to call shots.

If he dont want to accept it, fine, but good luck trying to become "the best" while not fighting these guys.

In a fair world they would fight at a weight which suits everyone..but that weight doesnt exist because Cotto is a naturally small man than GGG and so is Canelo to a lesser degree. So a weight which suits everyone doesnt exist.

What Izzy says is very much accurate in my opinion. And thats very normal in boxing, GGG isnt doing anything others have not and would not do. They want to fight in fights which favour them the most financially and in the ring and one outweighs the over depending on the opponent. But in the end, Cotto could have retired already as a HOF no problem and Canelo almost 10 years younger than GGG already is in a better position. So they will do what they want at this point, GGG is the one who needs them and is running out of time.

[farfan]

no he doesn't Wilder beat one single top 10 fighter in what is arguably the weakest era in heavyweight history .GGG's resume is superior by sheer number of contenders  faced ( 7 )  .
unless you have a good argument  as to why 1 contender = 7 contenders .

and are you guys just pretending that the winner of Cotto-Canelo isn't the lineal champion and that GGG is the mandatory challenger of the winner ?
you're going to criticize a guy for not wanting to drain himself for a  tittle fight that he's the number one contender for ?  didn't Canelo weigh 175 lbs the night of his fight against Angulo , five pounds heavier than GGG's weight against Lemieux ?

anyway..I am sure GGG doesnt want to fight because it sets a bad precedent and not because he fears what might happen at that weight  

i never claimed these were GGG motives for declining the CW .
my point is that boxing fans should be appalled by these demands instead of shitting on GGG because it sets a bad precedent .

if Canelo doesn't want the fight he can vacate the belt and stay put in his imaginary 155 division , ducking real middleweights and feasting on blow up welterweights .

[izzy]

No.

The criticism comes when he and his team STATES, "ANYBODY from 154-168 can get it".

That implies that regardless of the weight, GGG believes he will beat the opponent. He and his team said that. They said this before Cotto was the Champ, they said it before Canelo was thinking of challenging Cotto.

Why are you acting like weight is now such a big priority for GGG and his team when they have gone around stating they can beat ANYBODY is 3 weight classes? So what if the Middleweight title is 160lbs? When you say the things that they have said, you have no excuse.

They tried to play politics and failed. They are now trying to shame Cotto and Canelo into complying with their demands and that just won't happen. Those quotes they made will stick with them.

It's simple really. 154-168? They want 155. You don't GGG? Well goodbye then.

[farfan]

the difference in this case is that he doesn't have to concede anything since he's the mandatory challenger .

you're acting as if GGG doesn't have a leg to stand on or a bargaining chip in the negotiations . the reality for Canelo is that he can't make 154 anymore , and if ducks a fight with GGG he'll get stripped .
what is he going to do if GGG ends up unifying the whole division ? what would his options be at that point ?

[izzy]

Mandatory?

That means nothing in Boxing anymore. Look at Floyd for example, look at Rigo.

He has no leg to stand on. Cotto will just vacate if he beats Canelo and Canelo has already made it clear what his demands are so what is GGG going to do? Keep fighting his mandatories at 160lbs like Wlad? We see what that is doing for Wlad don't we? As talented and dominant as he is, his opponents aren't up to snuff.

Canelo has options. He doesn't need to keep making 154 anymore anyway because of the upcoming talent in the JR Middleweight division. He can literally stay there and keep fighting at 155lbs catchweights against Lara, the Charlo twins etc. He can move up in about 2 years and GGG would be what? 35 or 36 years old?

So, lets say GGG beats some scrub for the vacated belt and unifies. Then what? Who will he fight at 168 if he moves up? Ward is gone because he wasn't about to played by GGG and his team, so what fights would a 35 or 36 year old GGG have at that time?

He NEEDS Canelo and Cotto, not the other way round.

[farfan]

aside from Andy lee i can't think of any ( possible ) good match ups for him at 160.
but there are quite a bit at 168 :
-Degale / Grooves .
- the Direll brothers ( are both of them with Haymon ? )
- a possible big money fight against that hyped Mexican contender Ramirez .

Canelo will have to move up at the some point , GGG's notoriety is growing by the day and demand for that fight will keep increasing .

[izzy]

He'll be 35 or 36 by that time if that scenario plays out or is he just going to sit and wait around for Canelo?

Groves? The guy who lost to Froch twice and then to Badou Jack? Really?
Degale? Maybe
The Dirrell Brothers? Nah.
Badou Jack is a maybe a possibility.

When would these fights happen? Would anybody even care by that time? I doubt that.

Canelo will do what he pleases. Those PPV numbers of 100-150k has proven that the GGG hype is more media pushed than fan pushed and Canelo will use that as a way to continue to dictate terms. Hell, Freddie Roach just used it as a reason for Cotto to NOT fight GGG.

What the fans wanted to see was GGG - Ward, but we all know what happened there and because of GGG and his teams demands to Ward, there will be no sympathy for GGG if the Canelo or Cotto fight does not get made.

[izzy]

http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-no-chance-id-go-155-156-158-canelo--97679

Read this crap farfan...... this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

There is no chance that [I will go to] 155-pounds for a fight Canelo, the division [limit] is 160 pounds, this is my [weight] class. I am a fighter, I do not come to do business. I fight at middleweight or super middleweight.

He's right. He shouldn't have to fight at 155 for the Middleweight belt but don't act like you fight at SMW when you just tried to CW Andre Ward to fight at 164 but were willing to fight Froch and Chavez Jr at 168. What division is that?

No sympathy.

It's bullshit and blatant hypocrisy.

[Curtinho]

I hate hearing this 'because of this team's demands and blah blah'.

If the fighters wanted to fight bad enough they would make the fight happen. These guys care more about money and politics than they do about actually being the best or fighting the best. Period. You can't blame either side for one thing or another without the other having a hand in it as well.

It's stupid.

Also that anlysis on Rousey

[izzy]

Also that anlysis on Rousey

It's true though.



Now, I'm not comparing her to Roy, but just look at the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and WorldStar?

She did literally nothing right and those are the fundamentals of boxing.

Seriously, look at her head?

[El Gunner]

I don't see why Canelo can't gain and meet GGG at a certain weight. From how I see him he is a pretty buff fella if you ask me

[Curtinho]

Again, she's not a boxer she's an MMA fighter, and it's a media show. On top of which she's a grappler not a stand-up fighter, and RJJ is probably one of the worst examples of a boxer to show any kind of fundamentals. He keeps his chin up and his hands down...and there are a lot of things you can nitpick from that video.

As far as what Rousey is doing with her head...it's pretty clear she's tucking her chin and her left cheek looks like it's against her shoulder but it's hard to tell because she's wearing a baggy sweater. It's not perfect, but again it's just a warm-up for the crowd at a media session.



It seems like you just feel like hating on her for no reason.

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