Karim Benzema - BIG Ballon d'Or 2022 campaign

imagine hyping a sleazy raypist then

Im not particularly defending benz but rather statistical reality and facts, merely mirroring Jiopsi's unmistakable fondness of graphs, data and big maths.

El Gunner wrote:define accomplished? remember we all know Henry should have won the Ballon D'or over Nedved

Henry has the bigger legacy, fanbase and reputation in football culture. Widely considered the best player of all time to ever play in the best and most marketable league in the world.

5 Champions Leagues and 450 goals tells you otherwise and is his legacy.

Henry doesn't even have 400 and roughly the same appearances. Before you mention him on the wing, half of Benz's career was catering to Ronaldo.

How many UCLs does Henry have? Oh wait...

can we for once just rely on our eyes again and stop using overinflated individual and team stats for these types of arguments, please... best pound for pound strikers since the 90s:

1. R9
2. Henry / Suarez
3. Eto'o
4. Rooney
5. Benzema

Henry was a complete package too. Not just in the box, that goal he scored at the Bernabeu in 05/06. Only person after him that has scored that is probably messi. His free kicks; the man never really got praise for being a set piece specialist. Only becks had that over him in the PL during that time. The solo run against liverpool and spurs. Dude wasn't just chaos in the box alone.

The kinds of assists he got. He wasn't getting those "you pass to me, i pass it to you, then you pass to henry and he passes it across for the scorer" type assists. He created them from set pieces, beating players and actually setting people up. Dude had some assists where he practically dribbled the goalie and everyone ate from his assists....ashley cole, ray parlour, wiltord, lee dixon...i have a gut feeling he might have assisted almost every arsenal player he played with.

I know its not this debate, but i get a little bothered (and i've never been an arsenal fan) when i hear people say they find it difficult to choose between henry and bergkamp. Hell, pires is a much better footballer than dennis imo. benzema has him beat in club titles and the balon d'or. But overall accomplishments may not be that clear cut.

But there's not been a French striker/forward like Henry (not counting guys like kopa or fontaine). Mbappe is the one who might surpass him in terms of greatness and skill. If Mbappe just adds free kicks to his repertoire i'll take him over Thierry. @sportsczy, there's this running theme that French fans don't really like Henry. any truth to that? (btw i'm taking henry over van basten. I rate him that high).

Henry isn't disliked... he's just not considered a great in France.  The performances for France NT seem ok statistically.  Bu the teams he was supposed to lead were disasters (Euro 2008 and WC 2010).

His personality didn't rub people the right way too.

The hand ball against Ireland to qualify France was received worse in France than Ireland, believe it or not.  People were ashamed.  At the very least, they wanted contrition from Henry and his reaction was very flippant.

The Euro 2008 team was extremely talented yet laid a putrid performance (last in the pool group)... and Henry was one of the main leaders of the team.

The last straw was the disaster in WC 2010 where the team went on strike and lost in pool play again.  He was older... so the performances weren't the issue as the expectation wasn't there this time.  But he was still the supposed veteran and a leader of the team.  Yet many reported that he didn't say a word during the famous bus ride that led to the player strike.  He didn't try to interject and get the stupidity to stop.  

Frankly, none of the players from the WC 2010 are liked.  It was considered a national disgrace.  Ribery, Anelka, Evra, etc are all shunned by the French public as well.  Henry is actually more esteemed than the others.

Everything makes sense, but I'm really surprised at the handball. I heard that somewhere but didn't believe it to be true. imagine Argentina mad at Diego for that quarter finals lol

Safe to say Benzema's personality also rubs people the wrong way lol

Him and Henry were elite players in their prime, but when it comes to legacy i don't think it's really close. Unless you live in the UK under the false impression that PL is the perennial top league, being a legend at Arsenal is just not as prestigious as being Real Madrid legend.

titosantill wrote:Everything makes sense, but I'm really surprised at the handball. I heard that somewhere but didn't believe it to be true. imagine Argentina mad at Diego for that quarter finals lol

The French aren't that passionate about sports.  There's a famous saying by Platini back in the day when asked about the difference between football fans in Italy compared to France: "For me (as a Frenchman), football is a game, not a drama.  For the Italians, it's about life and death."

Mbappe said something similar last summer when he wrote the famous letter saying he wasn't extending at PSG.  After all the outrage from the crazy PSG fans and the club, he said:  "I only play football.  It's just a letter.  Nobody died."

Warrior wrote:Safe to say Benzema's personality also rubs people the wrong way lol

Him and Henry were elite players in their prime, but when it comes to legacy i don't think it's really close. Unless you live in the UK under the false impression that PL is the perennial top league, being a legend at Arsenal is just not as prestigious as being Real Madrid legend.

what?? lmaoooo wow, people just say stuff i'm convinced... Henry is literally more known and revered than Benzema worldwide

thank you @titosantill for being the only other person in this discussion talking a lot of sense, even more impressive since you are a Real Madrid fan. In fact, this isn't the first time i have seen you separate your Madrid fandom aside to speak sense and truth... i respect that a lot

@sportsczy i could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't Henry and Thuram the top 3 performers in the 2006 WC team after Zidane.

Henry also contributed a lot in 1998. Like you said the French are in general very cold and critical people. They are the type to more likely remember you for what you did wrong instead of what you did right.

i upvote that message lool

Ive already given my opinion on this but man do I miss Henry in seeing him play.

Never seen someone like that yet who would cause absolute carnage in the box and look so elegant doing it. Huge shame most of his career he didn't get the guidance Wenger gave him otherwise he'd no doubt reach the legacy Benz has created. Ive never really see him fail anywhere ever since he made his breakthrough.


Also happens to be the best pundit in the world who is funny, doesn't take himself seriously and gives good opinions.

Also the only sky pundit whom is taken seriously by any high profile player spoken to when the collective pundits interview them.

Respectfully disagree, i think henry has the bigger legacy of any cf in the last 10 or so years. Henry may not have a golden ball, but multiple top scorer, pfa player of the year and European golden shoe is nothing to sneaze at. From an individual only the golden ball eluded him. From a team standpoint, he's got everything. A separate debate, but i think the same person who impacted his career the most in Wenger, was the one who held him back.

Another separate debate, henry was not robbed by nedved. i know people like to poopoo nedved like he didn't deserve it. He was amazing the year prior to winning it. Same thing with schevchenko. Shevchenko deserved when he got it, he was a beast at Milan.

El Gunner wrote:thank you  @titosantill  for being the only other person in this discussion talking a lot of sense, even more impressive since you are a Real Madrid fan. In fact, this isn't the first time i have seen you separate your Madrid fandom aside to speak sense and truth... i respect that a lot

@sportsczy i could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't Henry and Thuram the top 3 performers in the 2006 WC team after Zidane.

Henry also contributed a lot in 1998. Like you said the French are in general very cold and critical people. They are the type to more likely remember you for what you did wrong instead of what you did right.

No it was the defense and holding mids that took the show frankly.  Vieira, Thuram and Makalele were the stars and Ribery was the attacking standout next to Zidane.  Henry and Zidane never played well together... Zidane had 1 assist during their whole time on NT.  And it was the one against Brazil on the set piece.  

Henry was mediocre in WC 2006 unfortunately.   He was offsides 1000 times because they had him play as sniper 9 and he wasn't that.  With Zidane, Makalele and Vieira in the midfield + Sagnol and Abidal as the fullbacks + Malouda and Ribery as the wingers... there was no room for him other than staying on top.

Domenech was an atrocious manager to boot so it's not like he was going to come up with some genius plan to make everyone more comfortable.

No one is denying Henry's greatness. Benzema is the one that's underrated as a cf, that's the point of argument and why ppl are comparing the two

@sportsczy well they don't beat Brazil in the quarter finals without his goal, and he had two other goals that tournament in the group stages, one of which came against South Korea, and without that goal SK qualifies for the KO stages and not France

El Gunner wrote: @sportsczy well they don't beat Brazil in the quarter finals without his goal, and he had two other goals that tournament in the group stages, one of which came against South Korea, and without that goal SK qualifies for the KO stages and not France

The Brazil goal was the one shining moment in Henry's time with France NT.  That was it.

Also, the issue with the games you brought up, South Korea and Togo in pool play, was that the attack was very poor in both.  France should have scored far more goals.  But Henry was very uncomfortable playing as a targetman, which i totally understand.  Ribery and Malouda kept making winger plays but Henry wasn't making the poacher runs needed and he's useless in the air. Plus he was constantly offsides as mentioned.

The match against Switzerland (0-0) was atrocious from an attacking standpoint for France.  In all fairness, the Swiss should have won that one.

Frankly, I felt that Trezeguet was far more suited to play given how the team was constructed and our tactics.  But Henry's international standing didn't allow it.  Weirdly, Henry and Trezeguet never really played well together either.  The whole thing was weird.

Anyhow, the entire issue for France was the attack and that's on Domenech.  Too many great players to struggle like we did.  Zidane saved us.  He literally decided to take control of tempo in the elimination games and carried the team.  Vieira and Makalele played out of their minds too behind Zidane.

Henry was great in the final from whatvi remember. Was putting pressure in Italy all night, was dumbfounded when he was subbed in ET. Maybe could've won the tourney if he stays in and scores his pk

Clutch wrote:Henry was great in the final from whatvi remember. Was putting pressure in Italy all night, was dumbfounded when he was subbed in ET. Maybe could've won the tourney if he stays in and scores his pk

France was starting to dominate and putting great pressure before the Zidane red card... that was the turning point obviously.  Otherwise, I felt we were going to win.  But it's football.

Buffon saved them.  That header by Zidane was an absolute rocket that he had no business saving.

Once again off topic....but i feel like France should be more mad at Zizou for his headbutt on Materazzi causing him to get red carded in an important final. Than at Henry's handball which helped them qualify. France winning that would have been the perfect exit for Zidane. Almost as perfect as Jordan's last shot against Utah for chip number 6 (Mike messed that up by 'un-retiring' and playing in Washington)

titosantill wrote:Once again off topic....but i feel like France should be more mad at Zizou for his headbutt on Materazzi causing him to get red carded in an important final. Than at Henry's handball which helped them qualify. France winning that would have been the perfect exit for Zidane. Almost as perfect as Jordan's last shot against Utah for chip number 6 (Mike messed that up by 'un-retiring' and playing in Washington)

No way.  Without Zidane returning in the WC qualifiers, France were on the brink of disaster.  They were 4th with Switzerland, Ireland and Israel in front of them (tied with Israel on pts but less goals scored).  Just terrible football.  Zidane returned (he was begged to frankly) and they actually started to play better finally.  They controlled pace and created a lot more chances.  Sure, the hand ball against Ireland ended being the difference.  But at least they got there to have the opportunity.

You guys don't remember what a shit show France had become during that period.  I don't blame the players as much as Domenech.  Zidane came back and became the glue to bring the team together again AND provided much needed leadership.

2 wins and 4 draws before he returned.
3 wins and 1 draw after his return.  

Only the winner of the group would qualify directly back then.  2nd place would get into a playoff.  So France went from 4th and out to winning the group.  They ended with 20 points, Switzerland and Ireland had 18 and Israel 17.  It was so close.

Again defense saved us with only 2 GA in 10 games.  Henry only had 2 goals with the hand ball being 1 of them.  Trezeguet stunk to with only 1 goal, but he was mostly a substitute at least.

Also, Zidane was the best player in the 2006 world cup.  He was just tremendous against Spain, Brazil and Portugal in the elimination rounds.. played better every round.  Was great in the final too... except for the headbutt.  That ruined it for him in the eyes of the world, but not in France interestingly.

The performance by Zidane against Brazil (and what a team Brazil had) remains the greatest individual performance I have ever seen. Watch the game and you'll see. Just took it over.

also Henry made the official team of the tournament...
quite literally the only French players to make it were him, Zidane and Thuram so i guess i wasn't that far off when i said they were France's top 3 performers

https://talksport.com/football/377407/2006-world-cup-all-star-thierry-henry-arsenal-pirlo-cool/

Introducing a low block to the Premier League would be like giving cavemen fire https://t.co/BITrgAJwLw

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Haaland scored like 5 goals right? Insane stuff... poor Luton defenders had to push up so high n leaving huge gaps for him to run into all game though seeing from the highlights...

WC2006... oh memories...of nearly, since I bet huge on France win, only to lose to freakin Italy so narrowly, grrrrr.... Pretty sure Ribery was big for that tournament apart from Zidane. Nobody rated France pre-tourny but they grew stronger n stronger as it progressed with Zidane leading them. LB Lizarazu was also beasting... Malouda was also a surprise player. Henry though considering his form with Arsenal for me actually didnt light up the tourny like I hoped he would tbh....

Zizou was magical that tournament. I urge anyone with a doubt to rewatch his matches. I think sometimes people forget just how good he was.

Moreso, he represents a success story for a French-Algerian as a successful person of immigrant origins, and that was a powerful unifying force for France. He is definitely loved in France, with or without that headbutt, even by members of the far-right.

Unfortunately, Benzema made bonehead decisions when he was younger and had to pay the price when he became older. He doesn’t have that same love from the French public for a reason.