Re: General Games Discussion

by Thimmy Mon May 01, 2023 1:06 am

I'm in progress of doing a completionist run of Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a really polished game with a ton of content, and I've really enjoyed playing it so far. They've really gone above and beyond in adding content to this game. New weapons, customization options, armor dye feature, mini-games, underwater and flying mounts.. it's mind-blowing how much content and new features there are in this game.

But I'm currently on my 5th side quest that has a quest giver or side character that complains that she was discriminated against in some way for being a woman. One was discriminated against by her own brother, another was denied military service on account of her gender. It doesn't take away from the quality of the game, but I do wish they had been more subtle about these things. I don't know if it's comical or just annoying at this point.

by McLewis Tue May 02, 2023 3:34 pm

Redfall getting destroyed by critics. Oof. Disastrous for Xbox and Arkane.

It looked like a neat concept, but the trailer itself just didn't reel me in even with the Borderlands/Destiny like elements. I would've much preferred to play as a vampire than as a human personally.

And now the pressure on Bethesda is that much more intense. Starfield absolutely has to be a hit now or that's basically 3 years for Xbox without a hit flagship AAA title.

by Thimmy Tue May 02, 2023 6:12 pm

McLewis wrote:Redfall getting destroyed by critics. Oof. Disastrous for Xbox and Arkane.

It looked like a neat concept, but the trailer itself just didn't reel me in even with the Borderlands/Destiny like elements. I would've much preferred to play as a vampire than as a human personally.

And now the pressure on Bethesda is that much more intense. Starfield absolutely has to be a hit now or that's basically 3 years for Xbox without a hit flagship AAA title.

Early reviews seem to suggest that it's a shallow and unpolished experience. Sounds to me like the game was rushed out for release prematurely, which seems to be a common occurrence these days. Game publishers have picked up a tendency to instruct their developers to improve their games through patches and DLC, rather than release them in an optimal state half a year later.

by McLewis Thu May 04, 2023 4:41 pm

Thimmy wrote:
McLewis wrote:Redfall getting destroyed by critics. Oof. Disastrous for Xbox and Arkane.

It looked like a neat concept, but the trailer itself just didn't reel me in even with the Borderlands/Destiny like elements. I would've much preferred to play as a vampire than as a human personally.

And now the pressure on Bethesda is that much more intense. Starfield absolutely has to be a hit now or that's basically 3 years for Xbox without a hit flagship AAA title.

Early reviews seem to suggest that it's a shallow and unpolished experience. Sounds to me like the game was rushed out for release prematurely, which seems to be a common occurrence these days. Game publishers have picked up a tendency to instruct their developers to improve their games through patches and DLC, rather than release them in an optimal state half a year later.

I place the blame for this trend squarely on the financial departments of the companies that own these publishers. The reality is the current business model is the right one for maximizing profit, even if it means the quality of the product suffers. Microsoft should've learned this lesson already, but apparently they haven't.

by Thimmy Thu May 04, 2023 5:28 pm

McLewis wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
McLewis wrote:Redfall getting destroyed by critics. Oof. Disastrous for Xbox and Arkane.

It looked like a neat concept, but the trailer itself just didn't reel me in even with the Borderlands/Destiny like elements. I would've much preferred to play as a vampire than as a human personally.

And now the pressure on Bethesda is that much more intense. Starfield absolutely has to be a hit now or that's basically 3 years for Xbox without a hit flagship AAA title.

Early reviews seem to suggest that it's a shallow and unpolished experience. Sounds to me like the game was rushed out for release prematurely, which seems to be a common occurrence these days. Game publishers have picked up a tendency to instruct their developers to improve their games through patches and DLC, rather than release them in an optimal state half a year later.

I place the blame for this trend squarely on the financial departments of the companies that own these publishers. The reality is the current business model is the right one for maximizing profit, even if it means the quality of the product suffers. Microsoft should've learned this lesson already, but apparently they haven't.

I've watched a few documentaries on the development of games, in general, how game companies are run now compared to 10-15 years ago, and how micro-transactions made their way into modern games. The common consensus seems to be that game developers and gaming companies used to be run largely by people who played games themselves, and had some level of passion and dignity when it came to creating quality products, but nowadays they're run by people who are educated in ITIL, business and marketing. As a result, profit and efficiency are prioritized above quality to a greater extent than in the past. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

by Thimmy Tue May 09, 2023 7:57 pm

I'm probably not going to play an MMO ever again in my life, but this gameplay footage looks so promising that it's almost suspicious General Games Discussion - Page 18 1f605

General Games Discussion - Page 18 1f605

by Warrior Fri May 12, 2023 7:38 pm

A bit late i know Laughing

Marvel's Spider Man is a great game i rate it A. Could be A+ if it had wider variety of combos as in Mortal Kombat for example. Traveling through Manhattan is a super experience i don't know the city very well but it seems accurate enough. Reminds me of playing Spider Man 2 on PS2 and never completing the game, just wandering around. Most side missions are fun and/or relevant especially Harry's research that would educate people on big cities environmental issues. I've always enjoyed collectibles so i do not mind pigeons, backpacks and all.

Only got 4 days to platinum the game before it's removed from PSN Premium. The rate at which games are removed is starting to annoy me by the way.

by Lord Spencer Mon May 22, 2023 5:59 pm

#36(S)

Game: Syphon Filter 3:-
Year: 2001.
Genre: 3rd Person Shooter/Stealth
Publisher: Sony.
Developer: Bend Studio

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Syphon-filter-3-911-version

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Syphon-filter-3-911-version

If you thought that a third Syphon Filter game in three years is a sign of creative fatigue, then you have thought right. For all intents and purposes, Syphon Filter 3 is almost identical to the second game but with poorer pacing and story beats.

That explains why this third outing of Gabriel Logan and friends had the lowest scores on the PS1, but is too much of a good thing necessarily bad? I actually don't think so, which is why despite the game being clearly inferior to the second outing, I still enjoyed my time with it at its best.

"She gave her life for mine, how can I live with that? The same way I will, by surviving, by not giving up, by fighting for what you believe in"

Right off the bat, you are treated to the aftermath of the death of a beloved character in a cutscene. Here, you will notice how the story immediately starts with high stakes, and you will also notice the updated technology used in the CGI cutscenes, which now show significantly better-developed facial animations than its predecessors.

Unfortunately, the game's plot and pacing take a nosedive from there, and that's mainly due to its poor choice of hinging its story on a flash-back-heavy narrative design. For more than half the game, various characters in Logan's crew testify to the US Congress (in the form of the VP) about their past relationship with the now rogue Agency.

Through each hearing, you go back in time and play a mission with that character, which does little to advance their characterization and even less in advancing the central plot. It may have been interesting to play the missions where Xian Ling and Logan first met, but all the others were completely unnecessary.

This narrative choice hampers the series's otherwise satisfying plotline and massively reduces the stakes. You know the character testifying about their history is going to survive, so why play the flashback?

At least the voice acting is a bit improved from the second game with Logan and remains solid for the rest as expected.

"Not Gabe and I, we worked for the greater good"

In many ways, I could just copy and paste the gameplay portions of my Syphon Filter 2 review, and much would apply here. This is the second time where the franchise's Action-Stealth gameplay actually works since the second game already fixed the issues of the first.

It is as satisfying as it has always been to control Logan, both when you are in a firefight or when you are sneaking around. Thankfully, there are levels catering to both styles of play. Also, the game plays exactly the same regardless of the character you choose, so it doesn't have any impact on the game which character is testifying to Congress at the moment.

One thing that is annoying here, just as it was annoying in the other games, is the sudden spikes of difficulty. In some missions, you are tasked to save hostages, and you have to headshot two or more enemies in mere seconds. In others, enemies suddenly gain a huge boost in power and accuracy, managing to deplete your armor with one barrage of bullets.

Thankfully, the checkpoints are close enough that it rarely becomes frustrating, and you could always use the trustworthy strafe to look around corners and covers.

"Discover who is behind the shadowy organization controlling the Agency"

With almost the exact same gameplay and mechanics as its predecessor, the only way Syphon Filter 3 could have differentiated itself and justified its existence was to be equally as creative in crafting new missions. Mostly, the game succeeds in that mission.

Some missions introduce interesting weaponry and/or gadgets, such as Xian Ling's mission in Afghanistan where she finds a weapon that can fire through walls. Others are simply well-crafted levels that take full advantage of the game's mechanics. Variety is key here. From a hotel in Tokyo to a survivalist camp in Colorado, there are different locations, different objectives, and different styles for many missions.

Naturally, this means that some missions are weaker than others. Personally, I don't care much about some of the escort missions, with one particular mission escorting a truck having some nasty difficulty spikes within it. Also, some missions are very short, seemingly being inserted to use the same area in a different way to pad the run time.

Generally, though, the stage design in the better levels is really good. Thanks to the handy map and objective list, you won't get lost, and the stages are built in a way you can logically navigate with ease. Missions are almost divided equally between stealth and combat focus, which showcases the best the series has to offer.

"Trust, Miss Xing, would seem to be in short supply in your agency"

For the third game in a row, not many advancements were actually made to the game's graphics or animation. Admittedly, there were fewer instances of the camera clipping through the environment, but the environment is also slightly more bland in a majority of the stages.

So, don't expect anything better than the admittedly high-tier PS1 polygonal graphics and animation in-game, with the only upgrade here being for the CGI cut-scenes. These cut-scenes are ironically reduced as a result, with the focus on the improved facial animations taking away from the masterful direction of action scenes in the previous games.

Thankfully, the audio production continued its positive trend slightly by producing another suitable soundtrack to the game. While no track immediately stands out, I can remember clearly how effectively it conveyed the various areas you traversed in the game. From the tribal sounds on the jungle missions to the spy-thriller tunes in the city.

Lastly, the voice acting is as solid this time as it has always been. Even Logan's VA slightly improved, no longer emphasizing each line as if he had some mysterious constipation.

In Conclusion:

Familiarity breeds contempt. It doesn't go as far as that in this case, but Syphon Filter 3 is an almost similar package to the second game in the series but one that is wrapped in a worse-told story.

So, while it is true that the game's mechanics and the majority of its missions meet the same high standard, you can't help but expect a sequel to be better. Failing to achieve that, I think this game is a minor disappointment, and in a way, it was common for games in the same franchise to fall on their face with the fast development cycles of the PS1 days. This one manages to fall with some dignity intact.

Final: 7/10

Pros:

Improved facial animation in the CG scenes
Retains the solid gameplay of the second game
Solid mission and level design
The Third/First Person shooting hybrid works
A lot of decent CGI scenes
Suitable soundtrack

Cons:

The plot's pacing is off
The flashback-heavy narrative device is boring
Same camera issues as the second game
Wierd difficulty spikes here and there
More throwaway missions this time around
Some graphical and audio errors

"Tips"
1- You can shoot locks to break them (and electric panels as well).
2- Learn to take advantage of your map to figure things out.
3- Beware of enemy grenades.
4- Some levels require some vertical climbing, so look up often.
5- Stealth missions REQUIRE stealth.
6- Learn how to reliably get headshots with free aim.
7- Grenades are useful against multiple targets.
8- Use the roll to approach quietly while sneaking.
9- Beware of shooting friendly targets.
10-Take advantage of cover when fighting multiple targets.
11-Sometimes running through enemy fire is your best option.

"Next Game"

Well, that takes care of my playthrough of the Syphon Filter franchise on the PS1. I really think this franchise is one of the premium upper-middle-tier Action-Shooter games on that console. It was clearly inspired by the success of Metal Gear and I think made a decent attempt at copying some of that formula while forging its own strong identity.

Next on the list is another Square cult classic. Threads of Fate sits comfortably in number 35 on the list. I actually played this game a long time ago, but I don't remember much of it (other than the fact that I enjoyed it) so it will be interesting going back.

Stay Tuned

by Harmonica Thu May 25, 2023 6:21 am

Looking good (with Max Payne), release date 17.10.2023.

by Thimmy Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:59 am

@RealGunner

by Harmonica Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:33 pm

Insane just got more insane.

by Lord Spencer Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:05 pm

#35

Game: Threads of Fate:-
Year: 1999, 2000.
Genre: Action RPG.
Publisher: Square.
Developer: Square.

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKbCI02fF8C6WYkS9nJfJOK3pxAkZ8UJxlPZK8A1qQ1gmIKnPl2y13kPpQ73lLmeLKUYM&usqp=CAU

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKbCI02fF8C6WYkS9nJfJOK3pxAkZ8UJxlPZK8A1qQ1gmIKnPl2y13kPpQ73lLmeLKUYM&usqp=CAU

Made by some of the same team that developed the uber-serious Xenogears game, at a time when Square seemed to have a Midas touch, Threads of Fate was made to be a contrasting light-hearted adventure that still makes an impression. At that, the team succeeds while maintaining Square's excellent PS1 track record. Despite a number of minor issues that keep it from being a great game, is a charming and memorable title that could endear itself greatly to the player.

It did that for me when I first played it, without completing it, nearly two decades ago, and it endeared itself to me again this time as well.

"And so, my journey began... I'll find the [Relic] and save Claire, no matter what..."

Threads of Fate's story begins with the central motivation of your chosen character (from two) who trace their objective, a powerful "relic" that could grant their wishes, to the small island of Carona. There, they interact with a limited number of characters, including the non-chosen main player, who are all looking for or are impacted by the existence of this "relic".

By the end of the game, a curious thing happened, where I realized I knew the names and personalities of each and every character in the game, as if they were cast members in a play. The limited number of characters and the small environment in which the story unfolds made this an unusually dense experience, despite the game going for a save-the-world tangent at the end.

Curiously, while the charming and humorous tone of the game is consistent throughout, the choice of the main character does have an impact on the specific tone of the story. Rue is a typical and taciturn serious Square MPC (equipped with spikey hair under his hat) who aims to use the "relic" to revive Claire, a girl he loves who was accidentally killed by a mysterious man who wields a giant arm. While Mint is a selfish and spoiled princess who was demoted from the line of succession and wants to use the "relic" to avenge that insult by, ahm, CONQUERING THE WORLD.

As you can expect, Rue's story is more serious, with some solid themes about the conflict between duty and will. Its ending is also more satisfactory for nearly all parties involved since it also resolves the mystery of the main bad guys as well. In contrast, Mint's story is more comic and adventurous, especially since I don't think you are supposed to root for her since she clearly deserved her fate, although I should complain that she hasn't matured enough as a character through the experience even in her own story.

Despite the main story being quite simple, it is told expertly once all the pieces are revealed and each character is given the time to shine. Unfortunately, the game's first half, which involves what amount to a series of fetch quests, is criminally slow and doesn't do enough to build the main story although it does help in establishing all the characters involved.

"I'm princess Mint. No one says no to me, just for that, I'm going to beat you to a bloody pulp"

As one of Square's more experimental titles, Threads of Fate crafts its own take on Action RPG gameplay systems, for better or worse. Although, I am not even sure the genre description is accurate, since there is very little in terms of RPG systems in the gameplay. Other than some perfunctory stats which improve over the course of the game, there is little to differentiate it from plain old Action games.

Regardless of how you want to describe it, the main gameplay mechanics involve combat and limited platofrming in a 3D space, with platfroming thankfully being very limited since its really janky. Combat involves quick attack combos, strong attacks, jump attacks, and a unique ability for each character that I will elaborate on later, and while it its as janky as platforming, it manages to be mindless fun most of the time.

Each character have their own unique mechanics. Rue can transform into the monsters he defeats, which in theory unlocks a great variety of moves for him, while Mint has an intresting magic system which allows her to combine a type of magic with a form. Both systems could have been game changer if they were better implemented. Rue is only limited to transforming into the last four monster he defeated, which creates annoying backtracking scenarios when needing a specific monster transformation, but that's not as limiting as the fact that Rue's basic moves are almost always the best option to use in every fight. In contrast, Mint's magic system is better initially, but unless you find the optional Omega form, it becomes very difficult to cast in mid-fight.

Generally, I find that the gameplay system itself is acceptable, if janky at times. Even if its no needed, its still fun to transform to various monsters as Rue, and Mint's jump kick is strong even outside of the comic cut scenes. Some battles get annoying, and the system is never tested to its full limit, but that's not the worst aspect about this game.

"The power of the Aeon's [Relic] might destroy the world. What do you say to that?"

The worst part about this game is how little of a game there is in it. In theory, you go into dungeons to reach a goal, but the majority of dungeons are single-line corridors with little to do in them. While some dungeons elect to have basic puzzls to shake things up, these puzzles are extremely basic and limited in both quantity and scope, that they barely register as puzzles.There are only about four dungeons of worth in the game, and all of them combined barely compare to a single dungeon in the level of Ocarina of Time for example.

Outsisde of dungeons, there isn't much to do either. One of the most annoying areas of the game, which is Fancy' Mels house, has you participating in a few janky mini-games that exposes the frayed limits of the game's mechanics. Later, you have the option of subjecting yourself to that horrid experience.

In the town, where it is at least fun to talk to everyone, there isn't much to do other than have a few duels with Rod the vagrant for a few hundred bucks. These you can use to upgrade your stats, which is the extent of the RPG systems in the game. Unless you count the fact that you increase HP by being hit, and MP by usining magic attacks, as a sophisticated "system".

So, outside of a few nice boss battles and the occasional good dungeon, there is little to actually enjoy abut "playing" Threads of Fate, which sees its story and charm do most of he heavy lifting. In that case its great for the game that it could always rely on Square's brilliant production chops.

"In this world its all about heart. Without heart, we're nothing!"

I feel that a great story can be conveyed with only simple graphics and solid narrative, but comedy and charm require more creative production behind then, which is thankfully what Threads of Fate has. With some of the studio's best work in converting their unique designs into 3D polygons, the characters look like they are out of a Saturday-morning cartoon.

Besides the charming graphics, there is something to be said about the scene direction, with all cut-scenes made in-engine. The camera work is exeplery, selling the drama when it needs to, but excelling mostly with its comedic touches. One of the game's innovations was in how the character's eyes tracked movement, which is used in conjunction with the camera work in selling the scenes.

With charminggraphics and exceptional direction, the game could utilize the best aspects of its art direction. Unfortunantely, not all designs were equal, with many forgettable monster designs and the eye sore that its Fancy Mel's place (the game making fun of the place doesn't get them off the hook). However, this is countered by some truly memorable designs, such as wraithing arm of the main villain in Rue's story. I played but not finished the gae 20 years ago and that design stayed in my memory for all that time.

Equally impressive is the game's soundtrack, which is made by the lesser-known Final Fantasy collaborator Junya Nakano and is considered one of his favorites. Not only is the soundtrack brilliant in its own right, creating an atmosphere and style that sets the game apart, but is used brilliantly in the scenes to underscore specific emotions or character actions.

When "A Chance Meeting" plays, you know the heroes are about to turn the tables in some way with its charming beats and heroic overtone just as you know you are in for trouble whenever "East Heaven Kingdom" track plays with its mysterious chimes and echo effects. My personal favorites, outside of the brilliant main track, is the main town's theme which welcomes you with open arms whenever you come back from any expedition, no matter how disappointing it was.

In Conclusion:

I think that it is difficult to accurately review Threads of Fate, since its strong suits are hugely subjective and depend on accepting the charm and comedy of the narrative while its weakes aspect are clear to everyone. Simply put, playing the game could be a boring experience.

Which is why this is a rating that will not accompany a recommendation. I don't know if you would like the game, but I was won over by its charming story and graphics, its brilliant music, and the image of Rue's nemeissi with that giant arm is one that will keep haunting me for ever.

Final: 8/10

Pros:

A choice of two protagonists
A charming, comic, and memorable story
Does well in establishing the location and full cast of characters
Each character have fun unique abilities
Very good and charming grpahicsand memorable designs
Brilliant scene direction
Excellent music

Cons:

The first half of the game is quite boring
The combat/platforming system can be quite janky
Dissapointing use of the protagonist's signature abilities
Uninspiring dungeons
Little to do outside of the limited main quest

"Tips"
1- Fight Rod to get money, save beforehand not to lose anything.
2- Fight Rod and lose for easy HP gain.
3- Always buy the most expensive equipment, once available.
4- Rarely, elemental attacks are necessary.
5- For Rue, you will need certain monster transformations to progress.
6- Getting highscores in the stupid Fancy Mel mini-games is useless.
7- Go back to the volcano at the end of Mint's story ot get the Omega magic.
8- Don't sell the "Legendary" items and instead give them to the bar chef once you have them all.
9- Visit all the areas in town before the final dungeon for optional scenes.

"Next Game"

I knew that I would like this game, and I ended up liking it despite its clear fault. However, I think its more than nostalgia, since I really do think that Threads of Fate is a truly charming and memorable game.

Next on the list, after writing a report about the top 40-31 games according to Retro Sanctuary, is going to be back to the addendum list with In Cold Blood, a cult-classic Adventure game that I hope is actually good.

Stay Tuned

by Thimmy Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:26 pm

by Firenze Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:09 pm

at the start of Act 2 (of 3) for Baldurs Gate 3, my first CRPG really, strong top 5 all time energy so far.

by Harmonica Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:13 pm

It's not even a Baldur's Gate. It's newly invented BG stuff copy&pasted on top of Divinity Original Sin engine. Worst fcking game ever released.

by RealGunner Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:32 pm

Harmonica wrote:It's not even a Baldur's Gate. It's newly invented BG stuff copy&pasted on top of Divinity Original Sin engine. Worst fcking game ever released.

Lol that's what my mate said. About it being similar to divinity.

He is enjoying it tho.

Firenze wrote:at the start of Act 2 (of 3) for Baldurs Gate 3, my first CRPG really, strong top 5 all time energy so far.

Nice. Might play it

by futbol Thu Aug 24, 2023 4:26 pm

Thimmy wrote:I'm in progress of doing a completionist run of Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a really polished game with a ton of content, and I've really enjoyed playing it so far. They've really gone above and beyond in adding content to this game. New weapons, customization options, armor dye feature, mini-games, underwater and flying mounts.. it's mind-blowing how much content and new features there are in this game.

But I'm currently on my 5th side quest that has a quest giver or side character that complains that she was discriminated against in some way for being a woman. One was discriminated against by her own brother, another was denied military service on account of her gender. It doesn't take away from the quality of the game, but I do wish they had been more subtle about these things. I don't know if it's comical or just annoying at this point.

The whole game was super annoying to me. Literally everything annoyed me. Overstretched dialogues that go on for 20 - 30 minutes, a dude called "CEO" ( Laughing

), your crew consisting of a black woman, another black man, an abused woman, an armless man from a primitive tribe who crafts a badass artificial machine gun arm but then puts it down because that isn't his real self, you always care about the culture and habits of primitive tribes and are understanding, no matter how archaic their traditions are ("Kulrut") while "shushing" the religious white man reading from his holy writings (before entering the first city).

All the good people are women and blacks. The inventor of the "God AI" is a genius woman. The God AI itself has the appearance of a black woman.

All the evil people are whiter than white like this:

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Maxresdefault

General Games Discussion - Page 18 Maxresdefault

Manliness is bad. It starts with the Tutorial chapter. Varl has a beard and gets mocked for it by Aloy so next time he is shaved. Erend is a manchild who doesn't understand technology.

I could go on for hours. I've heard they made Alloy a lesbian as well in the Addon. What a surprise. Laughing

Playing God of War after this was refreshing, the contrast was almost comical. That BS compared to a good old father-son story within the nordic mythology world. Sad you have to highlight the absense of wokeness in a game nowadays as a noticeable plus.

by Thimmy Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:12 pm

I have played the expansion for the game, and I don’t really recall Aloy becoming a lesbian, but I think you have the lesbian option in both the main game and in the expansion. I don’t really mind that part, unless it’s forced on the player. I don’t personally think there was a lot of chemistry between Aloy and the Asian chick who was introduced in the expansion, so potential for a relationship seemed quite odd and out of place to me, regardless of the sexual orientation involved in it.

As for the game as a whole, yeah, I wasn’t aware that the developers were as politically progressive as they evidently are. Generally speaking, I definitely prefer not to be made aware of what they, or any other game developer believe in outside of their workplace. They can spread the word in their own time.

by rincon Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:56 pm

futbol wrote:
Thimmy wrote:I'm in progress of doing a completionist run of Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a really polished game with a ton of content, and I've really enjoyed playing it so far. They've really gone above and beyond in adding content to this game. New weapons, customization options, armor dye feature, mini-games, underwater and flying mounts.. it's mind-blowing how much content and new features there are in this game.

But I'm currently on my 5th side quest that has a quest giver or side character that complains that she was discriminated against in some way for being a woman. One was discriminated against by her own brother, another was denied military service on account of her gender. It doesn't take away from the quality of the game, but I do wish they had been more subtle about these things. I don't know if it's comical or just annoying at this point.

The whole game was super annoying to me. Literally everything annoyed me. Overstretched dialogues that go on for 20 - 30 minutes, a dude called "CEO" (), your crew consisting of a black woman, another black man, an abused woman, an armless man from a primitive tribe who crafts a badass artificial machine gun arm but then puts it down because that isn't his real self, you always care about the culture and habits of primitive tribes and are understanding, no matter how archaic their traditions are ("Kulrut") while "shushing" the religious white man reading from his holy writings (before entering the first city).

All the good people are women and blacks. The inventor of the "God AI" is a genius woman. The God AI itself has the appearance of a black woman.

All the evil people are whiter than white like this:

Manliness is bad. It starts with the Tutorial chapter. Varl has a beard and gets mocked for it by Aloy so next time he is shaved. Erend is a manchild who doesn't understand technology.

I could go on for hours. I've heard they made Alloy a lesbian as well in the Addon. What a surprise.

Playing God of War after this was refreshing, the contrast was almost comical. That BS compared to a good old father-son story within the nordic mythology world. Sad you have to highlight the absense of wokeness in a game nowadays as a noticeable plus.

99% of games are a white guy vs the world, for most of gaming's history female characters were hipersexualized and diversity, if present at all, was a surface level stereotype and usually reserved for the villains and comic relief characters. A game comes around that focuses on different demographics and triggers you like this. There is nothing wrong with diversity in gaming, specially not with how well done it is in Horizon.

Even recapping the game your forget the white guy in your crew, that spends much more time with you in both games than any of the other ones. The fact not all villains are white men at all, Sylens has been the series antagonists for the longest and is a black guy. Rennala is a non-white woman as another antagonist in FW, and Alloy, the main character, is just as white as Tilda and the other people in the spaceship.

You just don't like diversity in your media.

by Thimmy Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:42 pm

I don't know if you were referring to me or Futbol, or both. I think diversity is a good thing when it feels organic and has an element of randomness to it. There's definitely a sweet spot between the conservative approach of the past with blatant, sexual objectification and little to no diversity being the norm, and the increasing emphasis on forcing diversity along with other, progressive ideals into games where it almost becomes like a checklist.

I don't think it was over the top in Horizon, but I did notice it, and I'll have to disagree with you regarding it being "so well done". When I got to the first big city, after doing optional content in the mining cave with the Asian miners who all had norse-sounding names, I couldn't help but wonder if this was going to be another one of those games. And then I got to the first village.

Didn't really pay much attention to the races initially, but at some point I noticed that a certain part of the village only seemed to have Asian NPCs.. and another mostly had black ones.. and white ones etc. So out of curiosity, I decided to count them, and the race representation seemed to be spread out in respective groups of 4 for different sections of the village Laughing

It definitely doesn't trigger me it all, but that's not my idea of diversity being well done.

I do have an issue with there being multiple side quests where the quest giver suggests that women are oppressed by men. 1 is enough. It just becomes obnoxious after that. They can preach that stuff elsewhere.

There's definitely room for new ideas that can breathe new life into games by changing established or conventional norms, and I know I'm not as politically progressive as you and McLewis, so I'm bound to have a different view on these things, but I think we can agree that some developers approach these changes in a more well thought through manner than simply throwing their own political ideals at the game and calling it a day. I think they did a lot of things very well with this game, but I can't tell that they did something particularly well on the diversity front.. other than adding it in such a way that you can tell what their political inclination is.

Dion/Bahamut from Final Fantasy 16 is a good example of diversity done right. His character is very well written, in my opinion, and he doesn't have to constantly inform the player or the people around him that he's gay or that his sexual orientation has some greater meaning to everyone. It's just part of who he is, not what he is.

by rincon Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:01 am

I was refering to Futbol only, didn't mean to imply that my post was about your views.

Some of my views on some of your points, Horizon has the ethnic diversity baked in their lore when they did the world building. The people came out of the pods all those years after Zero Dawn and, quite naturally, the genetic material in those pods was taken from different parts of the world to repopulate the planet. So in each tribe you have the (surviving) descendents of diverse mix of ethnicities.

It makes sense, and it was done purposely in a logical way to create the world they wanted to show. It isn't a game taking place 5000 years ago on earth with ethnicities in places where they shouldn't be.

There was a review that gave FF16 like a 6/10 and cited the lack of diversity as the main problem. It was ridiculous. In FF16 we explore islands akin to the UK inspired by medieval European fantasy. There, you don't need to have many people of different races, it can be easily explained as out of place. The creator said as much. Similar to something like the Witcher games.

Now, speaking of FF16, there are tons of quests, dialogues, and cutscenes about bearers being opressed. Would we say "one quest about bearers being opressed is enough."? Within the world of FF16 the bearers are slaves and a stand-in for an opressed minority. It's a major theme in the game. Horizon has much, much, fewer mentions of opressed women, but it is part of theme. I don't see why one quest about it would be enough. Zero, one, two or ten it just depends on what story you are trying to tell.

Dion is a fantastic character, I agree. Tbh I don't even know if it registered that Aloy is a lesbian, or maybe it did and I forgot by now. I definitely wouldn't class Aloy as a character whose sexuality is pushed in any way on us. Not saying you said so, but refering to Futbol's post.

There are many cases when they rewrite a character in an old piece of media to be a different race or gender where you have people saying "write new stories for diversity instead of changing old ones". This is an extremely successful franchise that did just that. They created a world where all their diversity and themes makes sense from a lore perspective, and created what is surely in the running for most well done female main characters in gaming. How many AAA games have a woman as the main character? Horizon, The Last Of Us 2 and Tomb Raider come to mind, not many more. I do love Horizon and it felt very refreshing for to play through such a character, story, and world in gaming.

It's come up before at some point here that you recommended Yakuza, but I and others didn't play them. It feels "too Japanese" for me. It's hard to explain since JRPGs are my favorite games Laughing

. I wouldn't complain or say that it's bad that Yakuza is too Japanese, though. That makes sense. Clearly, it works, and people love them. Don't change them, it makes gaming more interesting.

by Thimmy Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:03 pm

rincon wrote:I was refering to Futbol only, didn't mean to imply that my post was about your views.

Some of my views on some of your points, Horizon has the ethnic diversity baked in their lore when they did the world building. The people came out of the pods all those years after Zero Dawn and, quite naturally, the genetic material in those pods was taken from different parts of the world to repopulate the planet. So in each tribe you have the (surviving) descendents of diverse mix of ethnicities.

Makes sense that there's ethnic diversity. I still think they made some odd choices in balancing out that diversity in the game. Asian miners named Ragnar and Thorleif is one thing, but the perfectly equal, racial representation in the first village just seemed strange to me. Wish I didn't notice it.

There was a review that gave FF16 like a 6/10 and cited the lack of diversity as the main problem. It was ridiculous. In FF16 we explore islands akin to the UK inspired by medieval European fantasy. There, you don't need to have many people of different races, it can be easily explained as out of place. The creator said as much. Similar to something like the Witcher games.

I read that review, and I agree with you. I actually read a claim, in more than one place, that several Japanese developers that once used to release their games in the west, are now keeping their games strictly exclusive to the Asian market due to wanting to avoid negative backlash from politically progressive westerners who scrutinize everything from homogeneity to toxic masculinity in their games. I can imagine how some people may have an issue with those things, I particularly have an issue with how liberal the Japanese are when it comes to sexually objectifying minors, but in general I also appreciate the diversity that comes with seeing different cultures through games. And so I think it's a shame that we have access to less of those games now.

Now, speaking of FF16, there are tons of quests, dialogues, and cutscenes about bearers being opressed. Would we say "one quest about bearers being opressed is enough."? Within the world of FF16 the bearers are slaves and a stand-in for an opressed minority. It's a major theme in the game. Horizon has much, much, fewer mentions of opressed women, but it is part of theme. I don't see why one quest about it would be enough. Zero, one, two or ten it just depends on what story you are trying to tell.

I wasn't a big fan of the whole oppressed branded theme in FF16 either, but at least it's fictional. I don't remember exactly how many of those types of quests I stumbled upon in my completionist playthrough, but I see it was at least 5 of those based on my earlier post. I personally really dislike reminders of real world politics in my games, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

Dion is a fantastic character, I agree. Tbh I don't even know if it registered that Aloy is a lesbian, or maybe it did and I forgot by now. I definitely wouldn't class Aloy as a character whose sexuality is pushed in any way on us. Not saying you said so, but refering to Futbol's post.

I don't recall her being a lesbian either. I think you have the option to romance both male and female characters in the game, but I'm not entirely sure as it wasn't something I cared a whole lot about. The expansion gives you the option to romance a female side character who's introduced in the DLC, which I thought was an odd decision, because I didn't feel like there was much intimacy between Aloy and that character in the storyline, apart from riding on the same flying mount at one point. That side character also disappears for long periods of time, only to return towards the end of the DLC and suddenly suggest that romance is possible. A romance option didn't seem very natural to me considering the context and the relationship that doesn't really develop much between the two of them, but I suppose some people might appreciate it being there. I also didn't particularly like that side character. She's cocky in a way that I don't find appealing, but I digress lol

There are many cases when they rewrite a character in an old piece of media to be a different race or gender where you have people saying "write new stories for diversity instead of changing old ones". This is an extremely successful franchise that did just that. They created a world where all their diversity and themes makes sense from a lore perspective, and created what is surely in the running for most well done female main characters in gaming. How many AAA games have a woman as the main character? Horizon, The Last Of Us 2 and Tomb Raider come to mind, not many more. I do love Horizon and it felt very refreshing for to play through such a character, story, and world in gaming.

I think there are an increasing amount of games with female leads these days, but I haven't actually played most of them. I do think Aloy is a pretty well written protagonist. I also thought the protagonist of Forspoken seemed cool, until she started talking. They really messed up the dialogues in that game, and I'm glad I played it at a friend's place instead of actually spending money on it.

It's come up before at some point here that you recommended Yakuza, but I and others didn't play them. It feels "too Japanese" for me. It's hard to explain since JRPGs are my favorite games . I wouldn't complain or say that it's bad that Yakuza is too Japanese, though. That makes sense. Clearly, it works, and people love them. Don't change them, it makes gaming more interesting.

I completely agree, and I understand how some people may find it to be "too Japanese". I actually lent my copy of Yakuza 0 to a friend several years ago, and warned him that he might have issues with it being distinctively Japanese and possibly quite difficult for him to get into. I don't know if he ended up actually playing it. I haven't heard from him since, and he never returned the game to me

by Firenze Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:39 pm

Finished Baldurs Gate 3. Clocked in at around 85 hours. Amazing game. Amazing achievement.

Gives me a break before Starfield though I'm really not very hyped at all for it tbh.

by Warrior Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:08 pm

DW9 was added to PSN Premium or whatever it's called

It is amazingly mediocre. Graphics and bugs bring up PS2 nostalgia i am not kidding. You don't even get joyful hypothetical endings anymore. The open world is absolutely pointless but you have fun wandering around China, collecting useless ressources and slaying officers which have no influence in the outcome of the war.

For the fans it's genuinely B+ :coffee:

we embrace such mediocrity

by RealGunner Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:36 pm

Firenze wrote:Finished Baldurs Gate 3. Clocked in at around 85 hours. Amazing game. Amazing achievement.

Gives me a break before Starfield though I'm really not very hyped at all for it tbh.

Is it a 10/10?

by Firenze Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:38 pm

It was panned on release by fans yeah, I think they won't attempt open world again. I was talking to someone about DW recently (he's playing the games for the first time) so it refreshed my memory a bit. It was genuinely the series I played the most on the PS2, from DW2 through DW5 (and all of the special editions) I put in hundreds of hours. Loved it back then but played so much to the point I can't stand playing them now. I think the last I played was 7 but I just played through the campaigns once or twice. Oddly never attempted to get into the Samurai Warriors games.

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