Re: Jenkinson>>>>gibbs

by The Verminator Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:33 pm

Arsenalfaithfull wrote:to think we could had Enrique for 10 million..... o boy

Enrique said that he was never gonna join us......

by EL Patron Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:59 pm

Jamin wrote:wrong.

cant compare Jenkinson with Gibbs really.

Jenkinson looks like a 16 year old in PE.

by El Gunner Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:37 pm

I was sitting yesterday watching the match and thinking the same thing!

Jenkinson looks great on the ball, and he's body stature is quite good for a person of his age.

by REWB Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:17 am

The Verminator wrote:
Arsenalfaithfull wrote:to think we could had Enrique for 10 million..... o boy
Enrique said that he was never gonna join us......

why?

by The Verminator Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:26 am

Can't remember tbh but he did say he was never gonna join us.

by REWB Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:41 am

thats just rude lol

by Busby Babe Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:04 am

Just went on Ramsey's wikipedia and saw that he can play as a fullback. I'm not saying he should be your new LB, but how good is he at playing there?

by Benry Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:12 pm

RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:wow i was so impressed with jenkinson, but gibbs.....wtf the guy is too inconsistent. one game he is decent defensively and the next game he sucks defensively.

Cannot agree with this at all.

Jenkinson for a start is an extremely limited player, his awareness, passing, tackling, speed, strength, understanding are at best average, his stamina is his greatest attribute. His performance yesterday was one of nervousness and indecisiveness. Always backing off, bailing out of tackles, not once did he jockey or force Downing wide into the corner flag.

To compare him to Gibbs on the basis of Udinese in which he was solid for 45 minutes at best, is ludicrous. Jenkinson may be seen as superior to Gibbs in terms of positioning but that is not the case, simply he is not good enough on the overlap, he also lacks the required technical ability and speed to get back, so his pragmatic approach is the real reason for his superior "positioning".

Gibbs is the archetypal Arsenal full back/ wing back, this idea of his poor positioning is down to the tactics Arsenal and the opposition employ. Arsenal full backs are encouraged to support the attack, therefore the wingers or strikers can cut inside. Due to Sagna's ability and reputation, the opposition attacks the left rather than the right. Sagna tends to have industrial wingers in front of him i.e. Walcott rather than Gibbs or his predecessor Clichy this exacerbates the idea of Gibbs poor positioning. In fact look at Ashley Cole when he first emerged he had Robert Pires in front of him, Pires was immense but he was a hard worker, as were the rest of the team Cole played in, thus covering Cole. Who in this Arsenal team covers Gibbs?

To the opposition, the tactics and quality determines the player's performance, against Newcastle Gibbs put in an impressive performance, which was aided by Newcastle playing Barton on the right. However put Jenkinson in Gibbs' position, Barton would fancy his chances of roasting Jenkinson. It's ignorant to think that footballers aren't aware of who's **** and who's decent, that's why the opposition target Squillaci rather than Djourou or Clichy rather than Sagna.

Whack Gibbs in the teams Cole played in and I guarantee people will say Gibbs is a carbon copy of Cole. I can't believe you think Jenkinson is better than Gibbs on the basis of 45 minutes. Honestly, I have no clue as to why he was signed, I can only say that being an Arsenal fan helps.

by RealGunner Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:16 pm

Benry!! where have u been!?

by Abramovich Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:20 pm

He has been thrown in the deep end a bit think hes done alright tbh

Enrique looks a real steal for £5M or what ever it was.

by Benry Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:23 pm

Finished Uni and went traveling for a couple of months RG, got back from Murcia friday night and went to Arsenal Liverpool yesterday #VibesKill.

Thought I'd pop my head round a check what was being said. Saw this thread and decided to state facts.

Anyway hope things are cool down your end mate.

by REWB Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:40 pm

Benry wrote:
RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:wow i was so impressed with jenkinson, but gibbs.....wtf the guy is too inconsistent. one game he is decent defensively and the next game he sucks defensively.

Cannot agree with this at all.

Jenkinson for a start is an extremely limited player, his awareness, passing, tackling, speed, strength, understanding are at best average, his stamina is his greatest attribute. His performance yesterday was one of nervousness and indecisiveness. Always backing off, bailing out of tackles, not once did he jockey or force Downing wide into the corner flag.

To compare him to Gibbs on the basis of Udinese in which he was solid for 45 minutes at best, is ludicrous. Jenkinson may be seen as superior to Gibbs in terms of positioning but that is not the case, simply he is not good enough on the overlap, he also lacks the required technical ability and speed to get back, so his pragmatic approach is the real reason for his superior "positioning".

Gibbs is the archetypal Arsenal full back/ wing back, this idea of his poor positioning is down to the tactics Arsenal and the opposition employ. Arsenal full backs are encouraged to support the attack, therefore the wingers or strikers can cut inside. Due to Sagna's ability and reputation, the opposition attacks the left rather than the right. Sagna tends to have industrial wingers in front of him i.e. Walcott rather than Gibbs or his predecessor Clichy this exacerbates the idea of Gibbs poor positioning. In fact look at Ashley Cole when he first emerged he had Robert Pires in front of him, Pires was immense but he was a hard worker, as were the rest of the team Cole played in, thus covering Cole. Who in this Arsenal team covers Gibbs?

To the opposition, the tactics and quality determines the player's performance, against Newcastle Gibbs put in an impressive performance, which was aided by Newcastle playing Barton on the right. However put Jenkinson in Gibbs' position, Barton would fancy his chances of roasting Jenkinson. It's ignorant to think that footballers aren't aware of who's **** and who's decent, that's why the opposition target Squillaci rather than Djourou or Clichy rather than Sagna.

Whack Gibbs in the teams Cole played in and I guarantee people will say Gibbs is a carbon copy of Cole. I can't believe you think Jenkinson is better than Gibbs on the basis of 45 minutes. Honestly, I have no clue as to why he was signed, I can only say that being an Arsenal fan helps.

you make great points benry, i agree. my post was a bit of a knee jerk anyway.

by Guest Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:06 pm

Arsenal had scouts at the Lyon game last night... would not be surprised if Ally Sissoko was bought.

by Iceman Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:18 pm

I agree with Benry's assessment of Gibbs 100% ; however, I disagree with what he said about Jenkinson.

While it is true that Jenkinson rarely ever places himself ahead of the the winger in front of him, his speed is also one of his best attributes. It is by no means "average". He doesn't like to go in for a tackle unless he knows he can get the ball, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It slows down the oppositions' attacks and gives us time to regroup. He is rarely caught out of position even though he is present in the oppositions' half quite a lot. Doesn't necessarily overlap, but he's always there to support.

Offensively, he's limited in his approach. Rarely ever links up with wingers and most of his passes are backwards or to the side, but defensively he is solid. His positioning is better. Remember last year, when Gibbs was given the chance to start in the last few matches? We conceded at least two goals that I recall clearly because of his positioning. He was the only player keeping the opposition attackers onside, and by quite a distance too. So far, I haven't seen Jenkinson commit such a mistake. That is due to Gibbs' poor positioning during defending, as well as his lack of awareness. Two things which Jenkinson doesn't lack.
Against Udinese, Jenkinson was jockeying Di Natale and Isla off the ball every single time they came at him by the end of it.

by Benry Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:25 pm

Iceman wrote:I agree with Benry's assessment of Gibbs 100% ; however, I disagree with what he said about Jenkinson.

While it is true that Jenkinson rarely ever places himself ahead of the the winger in front of him, his speed is also one of his best attributes. It is by no means "average". He doesn't like to go in for a tackle unless he knows he can get the ball, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It slows down the oppositions' attacks and gives us time to regroup. He is rarely caught out of position even though he is present in the oppositions' half quite a lot. Doesn't necessarily overlap, but he's always there to support.

Jenkinson's acceleration is average, it takes him quite a while to get to top speed, he barley caught up with Jose Enrique, who is hardly a man of speed. What also highlighted this was that Downing was able to beat Jenkinson on numerous occasions. Jenkinson's stamina helped him later on in the match when Downing began to tire. He is by no means quick if that were the case he would be far more confident in his all round play, he rarely if ever overlaps because first and foremost he is not quick enough to get back and secondly his technical ability i.e. crossing is very poor. Downing is far from quick, on Wednesday I will watch to see how Jenkinson copes with Armero, as his "positioning" is not through excellent tactical awareness, rather a lack of quality.

The reason he gets into the opposition's half is tactical, Arsenal do not play a flat back four and as a full back he is ordered to heavily support the attack, however at this moment and the foreseeable future, Jenkinson does not have the attributes to be successful in meeting the tactical criteria.

Jenkinson does not get caught out of position due to a few reasons. 1) He does not get involved offensively, like Sagna or Gibbs 2) Unlike Sagna or Gibbs he is not as aggressive defensively i.e. going for interceptions, thus highlighting his lack of ability to read the game 3) Arsenal's lack of cohesion in the final third usually ends in a break of play thus the ability to get back when the ball goes out of play

Jenkinson's lack of authority in the tackle and pressing is negative feature, against Downing he was always backing off rarely if ever going tight. Those are the hallmarks of a defender who does not know how to defend. This lack of decisiveness in defending was detrimental to Arsenal yesterday, Downing was always dictating him, it was sad to see. Do not be fooled into thinking he defends with his mind because he didn't make a challenge or get tight, he simply didn't know what to do.

Iceman wrote:Offensively, he's limited in his approach. Rarely ever links up with wingers and most of his passes are backwards or to the side, but defensively he is solid. His positioning is better. Remember last year, when Gibbs was given the chance to start in the last few matches? We conceded at least two goals that I recall clearly because of his positioning. He was the only player keeping the opposition attackers onside, and by quite a distance too. So far, I haven't seen Jenkinson commit such a mistake. That is due to Gibbs' poor positioning during defending, as well as his lack of awareness. Two things which Jenkinson doesn't lack.
Against Udinese, Jenkinson was jockeying Di Natale and Isla off the ball every single time they came at him by the end of it.

For me I am skeptical of using the last 6 weeks of the season as a reference point, simply because the majority of players were on their holidays. Anyway Gibbs's positioning is the weakest facet of his game, however in relation to Jenkinson, Gibbs is better.

As I have already explained in my initial post Gibbs is the typical Arsenal full back, it is inevitable to be caught out of position when your job is to be a provider of crosses and constantly on the overlap. Arsenal's inability to retain the ball is the clear reason of Gibbs's poor positioning. How many times has Gibbs, Clichy or even Sagna whipped a ball into the box it's cleared but Arsenal fail to get the second ball, then the opposition counter attack, the full back is out of position, indirectly this highlights how important the DM role is for Arsenal. The amount of players Arsenal commit on attacks means it is inevitable full backs will get caught out of position, no matter how good they are.

In regards to your comment on Gibbs playing people onside, Jenkinson has only played twice competitively for Arsenal, surely it would be better to reserve judgement when a substantial amount of games have been played. Suarez was seen to be offside yesterday, but who was the man the linesman believed played him on?

Jenkinson shepherded the ball away from Di Natale and Isla, but if he was so defensively aware and in position why could Downing comfortably get past him time after time. When Arsenal defend in packs, like they did against Udinese allowing Jenkinson to jockey Di Natale, they can cover his defensive flaws, one on one Jenkinson has done next to nothing to suggest he is Arsenal quality.

by tsgooner1 Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:38 pm

Idk, but I see 2 top quality LBs here. Jenkison is very good at defending, gibbs is very good at attacking, we could rotate them for certain games really. And basically which ever fixes up there game to become a complete LB gets the starting spot!

by Kaiser Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:05 pm

Jenkinson looks completely out of his depth to me, enthusiastic as you would expect from a young lad who supports Arsenal and was playing in a nothing league a few months ago, but still pretty limited player.

Such an un-Wenger like player, technically he looks sub-par but I think his strength could be in his defending.

Actually he kinda looks like a centre back in the making I think, hopefully Bac stays fit, what a beast he is.

Gibbs is a crock, we should never be going into a season relying on him so heavily. Criminal from Wenger.

by 6unner Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:00 pm

What no neither button?
Both seem lost at times and are going to have to grow up quick. With neither one looking to be ready to be starters for a team that is supposed to be a top 4 team.

by AnJl Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:57 pm

Fantastic faith here

by 6unner Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:39 pm

Faith has nothing to do with reality.

Faith - belief that is not based on proof.

Reality - the state or quality of being real.

by AnJl Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:30 pm

I hope today's match showed what faith can do?

And btw 6unner ... faith is believing someone in the talent they have . And Jenkinson has shown you what he can do.

by Twoism Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:36 am

I though he had good game last night, didn't do anything wrong, moved forward more often. Of course he still needs to improve a lots as his game right now is limited but I like him from what I see, about time we see brit ( he's still half English) fb similar to Dixon and Winterburn.

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