Re: CHAMPIONS LEAGUE: Barcelona (Away)

by Tomwin Lannister Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:52 pm

I can't wait for the match. I am supporting Milan over Barca.

I'm a juve fan first then a Serie A fan second. Even when inter are involved in the CL

by xabi Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:11 pm

allegri will probably line-up like this

--------Ibrahimovic--Pato------
-------------Boateng---------
--Seedorf--van Bommel--Aquillani
Zambrotta--Thiago Silva--Nesta--Abate
-----------------Abiatti---------------

In my opinion seedorf should be dropped and prince should not play behind the strikers but instead in the central midfield.

cassano, ibra and pato shouldnt all three play imo. Milan will struggle enougth already as it is against barcelona. They need to really tigth up the space in midfield in first hand before thinking about going forward.

I would prefer this

----Ibrahimovic----Pato/binho---
------------Aqullani----------
------Boa--van Bommel--Nocerino----
Zambrotta--Silva--Nesta--Abate-------
----------------Abiatti-----------------

by nichabr Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:11 pm

i wanna see

-------------------------abbiati----------------------------
---abate---------nesta-----------thiago------zambro-------
------boa/aqui-------------MVB--------------emanuel------
------------------------cassano---------------------------
----------------pato-------------ibra----------------------

praying to see no ambro or antonini on the day...their fine for serieA but plz not in CL...

seedorf and nocerino to come in later for cassano and emanuel respectively...

by cripsy dipsy Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:55 pm

1. Zambrotta is probably lacking match fitness so we are stuck with horrible antonini for the game
2. Ambrosini,seedorf(thank God gattuso is suspended)should be nowhere near the starting. Line-up. This is so not the kind of game where one should think the experience of this old legs would count.
3. A midfield trio of Nocerino-MVB-aquaman should be ok. Nocerino really impressed me on friday. He actually played better in 15 minutes than ambro did throughout the game.
We are stuck again with mediocre boateng as our AM SHIT!

Trust allegri, he would come up with Something stupid like
Ambro-MVB-seedorf And we would get raped like a teenage girl.

I expect a loss cause this we have just played one competitive match and we are facing the best right away with injury concerns and mediocre players in the starting line-up, this is. Just the wrong time to play barca. Hopefully allegri doesn't do anything stupid and we wouldn't get raped.

Prediction. Barca 2 milan 0

by leemhuis Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:56 pm

I hope win but 1-1 is ok.

by BiasedMilanFan3 Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:48 am

This Barca match isn't the be all and end all

If we can punch out 4 straight wins against BATE and that other team, I wouldn't even care if we lost 10-0 to Barca tomorrow

by Forza Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:43 am

More on the Barca draw against Real Sociedad 2-2...

-ves

They scored 2 goals, just 11 minutes into the game.

Bad news is that Fabregas looks to be in form.

Xavi got a goal and an assist.

+ves

They gave up a 2 goal lead.

The rest of their strikers were woeful - Villa set up a goal for the other team by a horrible back-pass. (although Sanchez did get an assist, Fabregas' pass before that was more important)

They conceded from a corner - potential weakness.

by shamr9pato Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:42 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:More on the Barca draw against Real Sociedad 2-2...

-ves

They scored 2 goals, just 11 minutes into the game.

Bad news is that Fabregas looks to be in form.

Xavi got a goal and an assist.

+ves

They gave up a 2 goal lead.

The rest of their strikers were woeful - Villa set up a goal for the other team by a horrible back-pass. (although Sanchez did get an assist, Fabregas' pass before that was more important)

They conceded from a corner - potential weakness.

lazio >>>> sociedad = Milan >>>>> Barca (1/2 A team + 1/2 B team)

by dostoevsky Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:59 am

Fontas and Busquets were playing as centre-backs, with Keita as a defensive midfielder, so unfortunately there isn't too much to be taken from Barcelona's draw, however even so it should remind us of one thing that is relevant, whether we play a full strength Barcelona or one crippled by injuries.

If it bleeds, we can kill it.

I wrote this in the old forums after the Champions League final in case we were to play Barcelona this season. I believe the points made emphasise the need for a team, even if it is hit with injuries, to at the very least be match fit and made battle ready by the natural fluctuations in form of any season that contribute to the building of mental strength.

In my opinion one can't plan to defeat Barcelona with a blanket tactic such as 'parking the bus' or naively attempting to emulate tiki-taka as some have suggested. My post deals partly with a contrast between Manchester and Inter's attempts, specifically the line-ups of their forwards. The reason for this focus is examining a tactic which might be more easily duplicated by all teams, not simply technical, attacking outfits such as Valencia and Villareal.

Quite a few posters have alluded to the first half of the Copa Del Rey final when Madrid played a high pressure game which seemed to yield success in disrupting Barcelona's ability to hold the ball, craft chances and to in turn begin to probe the Barcelona defence. The second half belonged to Barcelona however, partly due to the team's ability to increase the tempo of play but also due to the tiring nature of Madrid's game. Some fans suggested that the first half alone showed that this was a successful tactic however it is neither pragmatic nor realistic to plan to complete a 90 minute match in such fashion.

No matter how well Barcelona play, a high pressure game will cause problems for any team and with a well disciplined and talented line-up it is definitely a ladder to establishing something close to equality on the field. My instructions as a coach would be to sustain this system of pressing and high tempo football on the ball for the first twenty-five or so minutes of the game. The advantages to such a time period are the freshness of the challenging squad and most significantly the chance to go ahead before Barcelona find their rhythm and begin to dominate possession.

During the two Champions League finals against Manchester United chances were fashioned either by luck or good play during the first ten or so minutes. Park came close to opening the scoring in Rome, whilst long hopeful balls over the defence resulted in Pique awkwardly kicking the ball into the shins of an onrushing Valdes, a situation which could have led to almost anything. Whatever awkwardness, hesitancy or nervousness may exist in the opening exchanges of an important match is the perfect time for opportunism and the staking of a mental foundation for victory. Whether deserved or not a goal should be sought by any means in the first twenty-five minutes, along with positive football played with as high a line as pragmatic given the back four.

As the game neared the half-hour mark however, whether a goal was scored or not, my instructions would be to recede to just above the 18-yard box and counter-attack. It is here, more than during these high-tempo periods, that the forward set-up is most important. Whereas Manchester United lined up Valencia and Park on the wings, Inter had Eto'o and a Pandev who was scoring a goal a game in international football at the time and was performing under Mourinho. Valencia, a talented player, never once looked like passing Abidal either through pace or trickery, whilst a Park on the half-way line would have no chance against Alves. Hernandez barely touched the ball, whilst Milito of last season was a master of hold-up play with a deft first touch, a strong work rate to drop onto the fullback and intelligent movement when Inter were in possession.

When you're parking the bus against Barcelona it is important to use world-class attackers who are willing to defend, not simply work-horses in front of the back four. When you finally win the ball back you need to maximise your chances to score with every single counter-attack. Manchester United's line-up robbed them of the chance to play positively when needed and to take the ball up the field quickly, and either find a player moving in between the lines or beat someone flat out with pace.

The restart of the match should be met with pressing once more, however only for ten-fifteen minutes depending on the requirements of the game. If my team were trailing I would switch to a 4-3-3, shift the line higher and act as if possession were gold itself.

This probably didn't require so long a rant I'm sorry, I'm just naturally rather verbose. It's not extraordinary saying "use both strategies at different parts of the game," so I might add a bit on the focus of the defensive period.

Similar to Shaktar, as soon as Alves is given possession the midfielders should cramp his side and closely man-mark his simple passing options to force him to pass backwards or attempt a long switch of flank. Effectively his possession should be restricted as far as possible to the half way line, whilst Busquets and Abidal should be allowed to hold possession deep as pivots so long as they do not attempt to act as significant ball carriers to reduce the defensive burden on those sitting deep, whilst any attempt to drive Iniesta wide should be made. A pacey backline and a midfield anchor would reduce the need to assign man-marking duties to Messi unless the case arises that certain members aren't assuming responsibility when he drifts into their area.

We haven't had the luxury of integrating Taiwo, Mexes, Aquilani and Nocerino into our squad through league games or even the pre-season for these players. Our regulars too have had interrupted beginnings, whilst others may simply not be up to the task at all.

For our formation, should we alter our plans in order to restrict our opponent?

The first change which suggests itself to my mind is the 5-3-2, however it is heavily dependent on having a full backline of which we have been robbed and Pato and Robinho's shorter pre-season plagues on my mind.

Abbiati
Abate---Mexes---Nesta---Thiago Silva---Taiwo/Zambrotta
Aquilani---Van Bommel---Emanuelson/Boateng
Pato---Robinho

Mexes and Taiwo however are unavailable and I am hesitant to include more than one centre-back who lacks pace or who is Bonera. The system sacrifices our width in attack in order to focus on hitting Barcelona through the centre with pace, however in my mind at least this requires the use of Ibrahimovic as a super-substitute, not a starter. Whilst I am not opposed to this idea, and believe that it can be a potent weapon in away legs in the Champions League knockout stages, given Ibrahimovic's motivation, fitness and form in comparison to the pre-season others have had or lacked, I would not yet dream of benching the Swede.

What of flattening the 4-2-3-1, which I initially proposed after the above rant as the best form of attacking Barcelona, into a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1?

Abbiati
Abate---Nesta---Thiago Silva---Zambrotta
Robinho/Antonini---Nocerino/Boateng---Van Bommel---Aquilani/Ambrosini----Emanuelson
Ibrahimovic

This potentially allows us to gain a point from our venture, by parking the bus, Ibrahimovic's nose, il Duomo, Castello Sforzesco and other formidably large objects to be found in Milan, save for Cassano's paunch. If Allegri is to learn how to defeat Barcelona when next we meet with a fitter squad, bound together by greater chemistry, then this must not only expose our deficiencies in our defence and midfield, but also in how our attack focuses on Barcelona's fullbacks, on getting past Busquets and dealing with the silk and steel combined in the partnership of Pique and Puyol. To this end, Pato, Cassano and Robinho must be given a chance to try and fail - whilst hopefully also succeeding or at the very least nutmegging someone so that we can pretend we've won afterwards :coffee:

- however the main concern we all have is how unbalanced will Cassano's presence deeper make our team? We haven't really tried it before, however pressure makes diamonds they say. It can also break a man though, or in this case, our pride. It is possible to allow Cassano to play a deeper role whilst reducing his role in forward pressure, giving him the freedom but also responsibility of trying to be constantly free, however it's not ideal. Had our team more time to prepare, I would go so far to say that we could defy the apparent truth that we must defend not only with our defence and midfeld, however with our lack of preparation, Cassano has to run himself into the ground if he plays.

I believe we can all at least agree on this:

Abbiati
Abate---Nesta---Thiago Silva---Zambrotta

In midfield, Nocerino has never convinced me that he can be close to Gattuso, however this game is about learning and as such I see no reason not to give him his chance. Van Bommel as our anchor is to be expected, save for injury. Aquilani shall be central to affording any quick breaks or to attempting to hold the ball under pressure and I do believe that using him from the deep can be an effective strategy, though giving him the freedom to roam higher if he is successful at retaining possession.

I will present two possible midfields, the former of which is partly statement of what our club should be from the outset:

Nocerino---Van Bommel---Aquilani
Cassano
Pato---Ibrahimovic

(Boateng as a substitute after 65 minutes for Cassano.)

The more cautious approach, but one built as a slight variation on other suggestions:

Boateng---Van Bommel---Ambrosini
Aquilani
Pato---Ibrahimovic

(Robinho as a substitute for whoever is suffering the most in our midfield three.)

There's always more to say, however it's a long post and I'm losing my train of thought, so I'll finish here for now. The focus on restricting Alves' options when he is in possession, pressuring Mascherano if he plays and Abidal when he is central, will be key to ensuring that Barcelona can be made to dominate possession in a manner which does not endanger our goal.

by shamr9pato Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:38 am

am gettng more optimistic about the match... i normally play in professional difficulty but i beat barca in legendary difficulty twice.. first time it was 2 - 0 in which both ibra and pato scored on the last minute... 87 and 89... in the second match it drew but i won on penalties 4 - 1 in which iniesta missed while Abidals was saved by abbiati...
man of the match : IGNAZIO ABATE.. shut down messi the entire game Very Happy

well a guy can dream now cant he??

by Forza Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:50 am

What a post dosto! Thumbs up

I generally agree. It would be of of the question to play on the counter the entire game. Possession is gold against Barca. This is a team used to other teams parking the bus. Now I'm not saying that a packed defence with everyone behind the ball couldn't work, but it's unlikely to against a team where they are trained to break that down.

I think that if we man up and physically show them who's boss, we can make a real impact, particularly if we get under their skin, especially Messi's. We should try to play man-on-man, and stick to their players like glue.

Also, would playing lots of long balls forward be so bad? It's a tactic that I think could definitely work. When I look at our team compared to Barca, I see our forwards as having the edge over their defenders. Supply will be key. I say let's get the ball flying as high as possible so their midfielders' impact is minimised. Only one of those bals has to be latched onto by Ibra, Pato or Cassano and chances are it's going on target at least.

I'm all for FIFA game predictions leading up to a real-life game, that will definitely have an impact on the scoreline on Wednesday morning (Aus time). cheers

Last thing, are Pique and Puyol fit?

by dostoevsky Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:57 am

From what I can tell from stalking Khaled's excellent work in the Barcelona section, Puyol is cleared to play, however Pique would be on the brink of returning to the squad when the game is played, so they may play Mascherano there instead. It is possible that both will play, however I'm hoping for Mascherano, or even Abidal to be moved across.

by dostoevsky Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:58 am

Aha! Finally found the video I wanted.

by Forza Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:11 am

If it helps, they are all supremely pissed off about the draw with R. Sociedad over in Barcaland.

Here's the song I want:

"See the local loves a fighter
Loves a winner to fall"

by Forza Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:36 am

Sanchez out for 8 wks.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/09/10/barca.sanchez.ap/

by Ganso Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:15 am

binho owning barca,stepover king :king:

by BiasedMilanFan3 Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:20 am

HA
I love Robinho

by dostoevsky Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:21 am

Goal.com is reporting that Robinho left training early. If the report has any basis, hopefully it was precautionary, if anything.

by Ganso Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:28 am

i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

by Chagur Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:54 am

Ganso wrote:i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

by Forza Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:36 am

Chagur wrote:
Ganso wrote:i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

wow, just wow. Shocked

you can't lose respect for a player so fast as I just did then.

Sheva FTW!

by cripsy dipsy Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:31 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:What a post dosto!

I generally agree. It would be of of the question to play on the counter the entire game. Possession is gold against Barca. This is a team used to other teams parking the bus. Now I'm not saying that a packed defence with everyone behind the ball couldn't work, but it's unlikely to against a team where they are trained to break that down.

I think that if we man up and physically show them who's boss, we can make a real impact, particularly if we get under their skin, especially Messi's. We should try to play man-on-man, and stick to their players like glue.

Also, would playing lots of long balls forward be so bad? It's a tactic that I think could definitely work. When I look at our team compared to Barca, I see our forwards as having the edge over their defenders. Supply will be key. I say let's get the ball flying as high as possible so their midfielders' impact is minimised. Only one of those bals has to be latched onto by Ibra, Pato or Cassano and chances are it's going on target at least.

I'm all for FIFA game predictions leading up to a real-life game, that will definitely have an impact on the scoreline on Wednesday morning (Aus time).

Last thing, are Pique and Puyol fit?

Awesome post here. Very solid points. Containing a team like barcelona requires players made of steel, possessing enormous stamina(workaholics), technically and tactically gifted and also fully fit players. These criteria rules out the likes of binho,seedorf,ambro,zambro

by cripsy dipsy Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:38 am

Ganso wrote:i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

So also is pique a mediocre

by Dante Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:09 pm

cripsy dipsy wrote:
Ganso wrote:i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

So also is pique a mediocre

Pique mediocre? Pique is the CB of the future in my mind..he is a great player

As for the game against Barcelona, i don't share the optimism in here..with a few words, i think we will lose. Simply because
they are better than us.

The only thing i want from Milan is a passioned display and great effort to take a good result.If we do that ,i am satisfied regardless the result.Barcelona is the best team in the world and we are not; i know things in CL doesn't work like that , but chances are not with our side, it's crystal clear to me.

by Ganso Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:12 pm

we will lose,i think people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise,but if we are going down then we should go down giving them hell.

by Chagur Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Dante13 wrote:
cripsy dipsy wrote:
Ganso wrote:i hope puyol starts,seriously the guy is just a fake WC CB,ive seen him getting owned so many times robinho,robben,CR,against internacional in the CWC, Nlmar and the list goes on...hes good and experienced but by no means something out of this world,no need to fear him...

So also is pique a mediocre

Pique mediocre? Pique is the CB of the future in my mind..he is a great player

As for the game against Barcelona, i don't share the optimism in here..with a few words, i think we will lose. Simply because
they are better than us.

The only thing i want from Milan is a passioned display and great effort to take a good result.If we do that ,i am satisfied regardless the result.Barcelona is the best team in the world and we are not; i know things in CL doesn't work like that , but chances are not with our side, it's crystal clear to me.

1994. Milan-Barca (Barcelona with Cruyff and "Tiki Taka"were better then us)
2007 Milan-MU (They were better than us)
2009 Real-Milan (They were better than us)
2009 Barca-Rubin (They were better than Rubin)

I'm not saying that we'll win and it's very unlikely, but this inferiority complex makes me sick.

there's always a chance, otherwise we would accept a technical defeat and stay in Milanello.

Cheers and forza Milan!

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