What Makes a CL Champion

I would say luck gets evened out over a cycle for any top team.

If we assume a top team has a cycle of 5 years, then that team will win atleast 3-4 trophies during that period including 2 major ones. CL is an incredibly difficult competition to remain consistent especially due to the knock-out nature of it. But since it happens every year, you can say luck gets evened out if you have a top, stable team for about 4-5 years.

WC is a lot more difficult as it happens only every 4 years. Luck plays a major role in WC and then teams have to wait for 4 years to compete again by which time your team will have changed significantly.

As Spencer put it, challenge system will do wonders for the game because the players are the ones who know what actually happened. 2 challenges per game will not affect the nature of the game or will not stop the flow of the game.

Out of the criteria that you have put out Spencer, i think tactics is the most important. The best example is Greece!

kiranr wrote:I would say luck gets evened out over a cycle for any top team.

If we assume a top team has a cycle of 5 years, then that team will win atleast 3-4 trophies during that period including 2 major ones. CL is an incredibly difficult competition to remain consistent especially due to the knock-out nature of it. But since it happens every year, you can say luck gets evened out if you have a top, stable team for about 4-5 years.

WC is a lot more difficult as it happens only every 4 years. Luck plays a major role in WC and then teams have to wait for 4 years to compete again by which time your team will have changed significantly.

As Spencer put it, challenge system will do wonders for the game because the players are the ones who know what actually happened. 2 challenges per game will not affect the nature of the game or will not stop the flow of the game.

Out of the criteria that you have put out Spencer, i think tactics is the most important. The best example is Greece!

But wouldn't you say that Greece had an equal quantity of tactical discipline and passionate Mentality. The thing with mentality is that increases as you reach the final with some teams (Italy) or decreases out of fear (England).

Not to mention that Greece had on hell of a defense in the back. Their GK was immense at that tournament as well.

Also, do you think I am missing something other than luck, or would these categories do well to analyze the teams in question.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:You forgot the most important one.... luck.

Troll harder next time BC.

I am on to you

:dance:

I'm serious lol. I'd rather my team be lucky than good, if i had to make that choice.

Same here. Luck > skill every time.

Half time teamtalk..

#istanbul

Zealous wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:You forgot the most important one.... luck.

Troll harder next time BC.

I am on to you

I'm serious lol. I'd rather my team be lucky than good, if i had to make that choice.

Same here. Luck > skill every time.

Cynic

That being said, what do you think about the other categories.

Officiating decisions are just as big. Bayerns offside goals against Florentina, uniteds disallowed goal against Porto, Milane Disallowed goal against Barcelona in 05/06 season. Chelsea, Real Madrid and Arsenal getting raped by the refs against Barca. barca getting done in with an offside goal in the San Siro against inter, then inter getting a player wrongfully sent off. Fletcher missing for the cl final in 09 due to stupid officiating, more recently Ajax being demolished by the lines men at Amsterdam.

jibers wrote:Officiating decisions are just as big. Bayerns offside goals against Florentina, uniteds disallowed goal against Porto, Milane Disallowed goal against Barcelona in 05/06 season. Chelsea, Real Madrid and Arsenal getting raped by the refs against Barca. barca getting done in with an offside goal in the San Siro against inter, then inter getting a player wrongfully sent off. Fletcher missing for the cl final in 09 due to stupid officiating, more recently Ajax being demolished by the lines men at Amsterdam.

Wouldn't that count as luck though, as officiating is ideally attempted to be fair.

I would say that implementing a challenge system should do away with these incidents all together.

kiranr wrote:I would say luck gets evened out over a cycle for any top team.

If we assume a top team has a cycle of 5 years, then that team will win atleast 3-4 trophies during that period including 2 major ones. CL is an incredibly difficult competition to remain consistent especially due to the knock-out nature of it. But since it happens every year, you can say luck gets evened out if you have a top, stable team for about 4-5 years.

WC is a lot more difficult as it happens only every 4 years. Luck plays a major role in WC and then teams have to wait for 4 years to compete again by which time your team will have changed significantly.

As Spencer put it, challenge system will do wonders for the game because the players are the ones who know what actually happened. 2 challenges per game will not affect the nature of the game or will not stop the flow of the game.

Out of the criteria that you have put out Spencer, i think tactics is the most important. The best example is Greece!

Luck is catching breaks at the right moments.

If you get denied 3 penalties in a Group stage match and you end up winning anyway....that dosen't even put bad luck of being denied a penalty in a 1-0 loss.

I doubt that some luck here and some bad luck there even's out anything since some luck dosen't really matter........

A ref in your pocket helps as well

Fun thing is, in Germany we even have a term for the uncanny luck Bayern often has (actually it is less about favourable ref decision, but them being able to will a win in the final minutes or even injury time, or the opponent missing a penalty or the goal for some other reason at a crucial time): "Bayerndusel" ("Dusel" meaning some weird good luck).

Hoeness' reply to Bayern being accused to mainly win due to their "Bayerndusel" is "You make your own luck!"

So one may indeed wonder, if luck is coupled a bit with the team mentality, too.

Lord Spencer wrote:

Zealous wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:You forgot the most important one.... luck.

Troll harder next time BC.

I am on to you

I'm serious lol. I'd rather my team be lucky than good, if i had to make that choice.

Same here. Luck > skill every time.

Cynic

That being said, what do you think about the other categories.

I agree with you fully on everything there

By winning the CL... duh.

Honestly though, luck. (:

But luck is not everything, and I think the phrase "you make your own luck" is completely true.

I am a supporter of Milan so I would know.

We lost 4-0 to deportivo because they were stronger mentally and because we lacked concentration, not because of luck.

We lost to Barca because we were not able to score more goals.

The only match were luck was involved was the 2005 CL final, and only because Dida flopped the ball, and Sheva hit the crossbars.

In the end, Liverpool would not have won if they were weaker mentally though. And they would not have won if they did not have Dudek or Gerrard.

So all in all, all the categories are important imo, and Luck in the end just provides the final push forward.

bump

IMO in many matches, it is actually mentality that allows a team to score at the very last minute and others just call this "luck".

To some extent, "luck" is the ability to focus for an entire match.

Which will then will lead to goals when the other team loses focus.

Lord Spencer wrote:
Is Lord Spencer awesome or..............?

Yeah.

I believe luck has to do with it.

When someone says "oh but they make their own luck."

I say "yeah, but it was still luck right?"

I seriously don't understand when someone tries to justify luck.

I think Chance and Luck are different.