If Andrea Pirlo were at Barcelona..

The Franchise wrote:When you play as the deepest midfielder, right in front of the back 4, you are faced by number 10, attacking midfielders and second strikers...these types of players often come into your zone.

If they have dribbling ability and creativity, which most players in those positions have, they are going to give Pirlo trouble and they did.

Thats why playing ennergetic, defensive players around him are needed, so they can stop as many balls into those players by closing down and pressuring the players trying to get the ball into that player.

Pirlo is good at positioning himself in areas so he can intecept slack passes, but if those midfielders in front of him cant stop the opponant players and that number 10 gets the ball, Pirlo doesnt have the defensive ability to stop him.

For an example of this, look at Brazil-Italy not too long ago. Robinho utterly had his way because he was able to recieve balls into his feet and attack, Pirlo especially was helpless.

nichabr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

jibers wrote:I agree with Arq here. Look, Xavi is the best CM and is playing at another level. In terms of abilities I would say that they are both very similar, but the fact is, Xavi is the same player he was before Pepe came, so what changeed exactly...go figure it out. I'm not using the system arguement but if Pirlo had gone earlier when he was younger he would have given Xavi a run I feel or possibly benched him. And Franchise talking about protection? What does that mean? In that case Xavi gets the biggest protection as his whole front line presses, hell over the last 2 season in the Cl Xavi has the lowest tackling rate out of every player! So Please, don't use the Protection arguement.

With that being said I feel that they had similar abilities but with Barcelona concentrating on so much short passing and passing under pressure, Xavi has left all before him. WOuld Pirlo have done as well in a similar situation? I have no doubt...but he didn't and Xavi did and that elevated him...

How is Xavi getting protection from pressing if he is part of it? Its not just the front line that presses, or its very easy to get out of.

He has a direct impact on it, as in, the better he is at that defensive aspect the better the team is. Its nothing to do with tackling rate..that is a irrelevant stat.

Pirlo wasnt part of any Milan defensive gameplan, in fact, they gameplanned ways in which he can play without causing defensive breakdowns.

Gattuso and Ambrosini werent playing important games because of their offensive ability, its because of their work rate and defence. Now, if it was just one player (like Xavi had in a holding player) then its generally acceptable, but why 2 players? Its because Pirlo isnt a good defensive player.

And I would like to say, I never said Xavi was superior to Pirlo pre Pep. I said the general assumption Pirlo was better is false.

Pirlo is good at everything defending aside from tackling and he shows that every game for juventus this season he doesn't press but takes a position to close down space or cut off a pass just like he did with milan while he was there. The assumption that Pirlo can't defend is as false as it gets and comes from people who label him as a liability because of his pace.

nichabr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:When you play as the deepest midfielder, right in front of the back 4, you are faced by number 10, attacking midfielders and second strikers...these types of players often come into your zone.

If they have dribbling ability and creativity, which most players in those positions have, they are going to give Pirlo trouble and they did.

Thats why playing ennergetic, defensive players around him are needed, so they can stop as many balls into those players by closing down and pressuring the players trying to get the ball into that player.

Pirlo is good at positioning himself in areas so he can intecept slack passes, but if those midfielders in front of him cant stop the opponant players and that number 10 gets the ball, Pirlo doesnt have the defensive ability to stop him.

For an example of this, look at Brazil-Italy not too long ago. Robinho utterly had his way because he was able to recieve balls into his feet and attack, Pirlo especially was helpless.

Xavi on average has atleast 5 energetic players around him every game Pirlo had one in Gattuso while playing for milan and using one example from a game where Italy had one of their worst squads of all time playing isn't going to go in your favor

baresi wrote:

nichabr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

jibers wrote:I agree with Arq here. Look, Xavi is the best CM and is playing at another level. In terms of abilities I would say that they are both very similar, but the fact is, Xavi is the same player he was before Pepe came, so what changeed exactly...go figure it out. I'm not using the system arguement but if Pirlo had gone earlier when he was younger he would have given Xavi a run I feel or possibly benched him. And Franchise talking about protection? What does that mean? In that case Xavi gets the biggest protection as his whole front line presses, hell over the last 2 season in the Cl Xavi has the lowest tackling rate out of every player! So Please, don't use the Protection arguement.

With that being said I feel that they had similar abilities but with Barcelona concentrating on so much short passing and passing under pressure, Xavi has left all before him. WOuld Pirlo have done as well in a similar situation? I have no doubt...but he didn't and Xavi did and that elevated him...

How is Xavi getting protection from pressing if he is part of it? Its not just the front line that presses, or its very easy to get out of.

He has a direct impact on it, as in, the better he is at that defensive aspect the better the team is. Its nothing to do with tackling rate..that is a irrelevant stat.

Pirlo wasnt part of any Milan defensive gameplan, in fact, they gameplanned ways in which he can play without causing defensive breakdowns.

Gattuso and Ambrosini werent playing important games because of their offensive ability, its because of their work rate and defence. Now, if it was just one player (like Xavi had in a holding player) then its generally acceptable, but why 2 players? Its because Pirlo isnt a good defensive player.

And I would like to say, I never said Xavi was superior to Pirlo pre Pep. I said the general assumption Pirlo was better is false.

Pirlo is good at everything defending aside from tackling and he shows that every game for juventus this season he doesn't press but takes a position to close down space or cut off a pass just like he did with milan while he was there. The assumption that Pirlo can't defend is as false as it gets and comes from people who label him as a liability because of his pace.

And those alone won't let him into Barcas side, which is the OT.

baresi wrote:If I go back and find you how many times last season the ball was cut from Pirlo or picked of a missed pass from him, that created a real chance for the opponent you will be shocked.

Another reference would be the game Franchise mentioned look at Brazil goal how did it happen, oh wait the ball was cut from Pirlo.

baresi wrote: