Return Of The Most Effective Player Of The Season, 2012-2013 (stats)

sportsczy wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

sportsczy wrote:these stats are wrong btw

What's wrong?

Your source is bad. i think you use transfermarket.de and they inflate everything. You should go by the clubs' official websites, Opta sports or soccernet (who use stats.llc i think).

for example, higuain has 13 goals and 7 assists.... benz 16 goals and 12 assists. This is all official competitions.

Exactly. Mata is not on 28 assists, nowhere near. Transfermarkt counts an own goal after a Mata corner kick as an assist, fss.

It's just different criteria. All criteria Is fine if all the players are compared using the same criteria.

No Totti, No Party

To each their own.... but i like to look at data that is officially used by the clubs and leagues. Transfermkt is not recognized anywhere and does its own thing.

sportsczy wrote:To each their own.... but i like to look at data that is officially used by the clubs and leagues. Transfermkt is not recognized anywhere and does its own thing.

cool, now do your own table with (what in your opinion) is a valid source. Like visit all the official club websites, or pay Opta to get the statistics. It is not much work, right?

They are all being compared with the same "tool" so it does not matter.

You don't need to pay OPTA. www.whoscored.com bases its data on OPTA and it's free and easy to use. The Transfermarkt method is too random for my liking. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u-TNDio7Wk

Transfermarkt counts the first, second and third goals as assists. It makes a mockery of the word "assist" if a corner kick which ends up as an own goal is credited as an assist to the corner kick taker. There was no intention from Mata to "assist" Walters there. It was a lumped ball into the box. Likewise to count it as an assist if you get fouled in the box and win a penalty. Now add to that rebound goals and corner kick goals which get attributed to the guy who won the freekick and the whole thing becomes totally random.

Especially Mata's numbers are totally misleading. He has 10 "proper" assists in the league and 3 in the Champions League. That's 13 in all competitions that matter. Gives a totally different picture of the player than "28 assists" (half of them racked up in Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League).

I know it's pointless to debate about it since there is no official definition of what an assist is so everyone can use his own method but the OPTA one is the most "logical" IMO.

Here are the "uninflated" OPTA assist numbers in the competitions that matter (League + CL) for jiopsi's top 30 players, for those who care:

Messi: 13
Cronaldo: 7
Ibrahimovic: 12
Benzema: 8
Walcott: 10
Quagliarella: 2
Lewandowski: 7
Rooney: 12
van Persie: 8
Villa: 4
Higuain: 6
Tevez: 7
Suarez: 4
Mata: 13
Robben: 5
Müller: 11
Mandzukic: 2
Fabregas: 10
Falcao: 1
Cavani: 3
Podolski: 10
Bale: 3
Huszti: 9
Miccoli: 6
Kiessling: 7
Ribery: 10
Tello: 5
Iniesta: 15
Giroud: 7
Cassano: 9

futbol wrote:Here are the "uninflated" OPTA assist numbers in the competitions that matter (League + CL) for jiopsi's top 30 players, for those who care:

Messi: 13
Cronaldo: 7
Ibrahimovic: 12
Benzema: 8
Walcott: 10
Quagliarella: 2
Lewandowski: 7
Rooney: 12
van Persie: 8
Villa: 4
Higuain: 6
Tevez: 7
Suarez: 4
Mata: 13
Robben: 5
Müller: 11
Mandzukic: 2
Fabregas: 10
Falcao: 1
Cavani: 3
Podolski: 10
Bale: 3
Huszti: 9
Miccoli: 6
Kiessling: 7
Ribery: 10
Tello: 5
Iniesta: 15
Giroud: 7
Cassano: 9

These make way more sense. Iniesta what a beast

Do you have Ozil and Di Maria's numbers?

Ozil has 12 assists and Di Maria has 8 apparently.

Correct.

sportsczy wrote:To each their own.... but i like to look at data that is officially used by the clubs and leagues. Transfermkt is not recognized anywhere and does its own thing.

Data from different club websites would be a non comparable data as many clubs will probably have different criteria.

No statistics data is recognized anywhere except the statistics from the CL website (which does have goals and assists) and each of the leagues websites (which usually don't have assists).

So the only way to do this is with a homogenuous statistics website and transfermarkt is as valid as any other.

IMO, it's ok to give an assist to the player that gets a penalty and to the player that provokes an own goal, so as you say, it's pointless to argue and every option is fine as long as youu keep the same criteria as jiopsi does.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Ozil has 12 assists and Di Maria has 8 apparently.

That makes sense as well.

Futbol laying the smacketh down on statistics

It would be such a pain to check 5 different sources... if you guys care that much make your own chart lol

free_cat wrote:
So the only way to do this is with a homogenuous statistics website and transfermarkt is as valid as any other.

No it isn't..... Whoscored, Opta etc etc are in another league in regards to validity.

And winning a penalty isn't a assist, never has been never will be.

People are just making up the rules as they go along now.

Transfermarkt massively inflate their stats with rules that don't even exist, i mean Mata has 30 assists on there ffs.

He doesn't even have 20 in reality.

Also BC i don't really care tbh, but its confusing why you wouldn't use the premium sources for this type of content.

Assist stats are generally misleading anyway, no matter how you count them. They just don't take the quality of the assist into consideration. If Özil plays a throughball to Ronaldo who got inbehind the defense and Ronaldo just makes a 5 yard sideway pass to Benzema who is free in the middle, it's an assist. If Özil plays a defense splitting throughball and Ronaldo scores with his first touch, it's also an assist. But the difference is huge. Ronaldo's pass to Benzema wouldn't require any kind of vision or passing ability. Özil's would. Ronaldo wouldn't "create" that goal. Özil would. Yet people use assist statistics to argue about the creativity of players (in this thread even about their overall "effectiveness", Xavi and Pirlo more ineffective players than David Villa or Walcott according to this list ).

A very subjective topic and probably the reason why 15+ years ago no one counted assists (or does anyone know of assist numbers of Maradona, Zico, Pelé, Platini?). Assist stats are very vague as it is. One should just not make it deliberately worse by counting everything as an assist.

You could say the same for goals futbol. Not all goals are of the same quality and yet you never hear things like "Even though player X scored 20 less goals than player Y his goals were much more difficult to score".

I actually agree with futbol on something

One other thing. It shouldn't be just league and CL. I'd also add in the proper cup stats like FA, CDR, etc., but no the mickey mouse ones like community shield, etc. Obviously, preseason, supercup and other exhibition type stats should absolutely be ignored.

Totti is the most effective player for Roma

futbol wrote:Assist stats are generally misleading anyway, no matter how you count them. They just don't take the quality of the assist into consideration. If Özil plays a throughball to Ronaldo who got inbehind the defense and Ronaldo just makes a 5 yard sideway pass to Benzema who is free in the middle, it's an assist. If Özil plays a defense splitting throughball and Ronaldo scores with his first touch, it's also an assist. But the difference is huge. Ronaldo's pass to Benzema wouldn't require any kind of vision or passing ability. Özil's would. Ronaldo wouldn't "create" that goal. Özil would. Yet people use assist statistics to argue about the creativity of players (in this thread even about their overall "effectiveness", Xavi and Pirlo more ineffective players than David Villa or Walcott according to this list ).

A very subjective topic and probably the reason why 15+ years ago no one counted assists (or does anyone know of assist numbers of Maradona, Zico, Pelé, Platini?). Assist stats are very vague as it is. One should just not make it deliberately worse by counting everything as an assist.

If we should take the quality of the assist into consideration, shouldn't the same be done for a goal? A tap-in is very different from a bicycle kick, for example.

Isn't the original assist stat where a player passes the ball and the goalscorer scores first time. Or maybe the goalscorer can take 1 touch.

Not player A passes the ball, then another play passes it and another player scores and player A gets the assist.

Yohan Modric wrote:Isn't the original assist stat where a player passes the ball and the goalscorer scores first time. Or maybe the goalscorer can take 1 touch.

Not player A passes the ball, then another play passes it and another player scores and player A gets the assist.

No, the original assist stat for FIFA were:

- An assist was awarded to the player who had given the last pass to the goalscorer.
- In addition, also the last but two holder of the ball could get an assist provided that his action had decisive importance for the goal .
- After goals from rebounds those players were awarded an assist who had shot on target.
- After goals scored on penalty or by a directly converted free-kick the fouled player received a point.
- In case that the goalscorer had laid on the goal for himself (dribble, solo run), no assists were awarded.
- No assists were awarded, either, if the goalscorer took advantage of a missed pass by an opponent.

Since then it has had some various chances, transfermarkt doesn't give assist from freekick, but gives from a penalty, if the scorer isn't the one who got awarded it. Now this is all highly logical, as an assist should be a contribution by a player which helps to score a goal.

But because assists is not part of the official Laws of the Game, the criteria for an assist may vary. OPTA or anyone else isn't any more "official", or better than transfermarkt.

Hope this helps the confusion by many.

14.4

cr7 catching up. walcott a surprise top 3

Soon Mario Gómez should be eligible - atm he is at 10 goals + 4 assists in 895 minutes (23 matches). 1 goal/assist every 64 minutes! Dat efficiency. Second only to Messi!

Lewandowski with 30 goals this season but according to GL he is shit