Iniesta will win the Ballon D'Or this year

Whether he deserves it or not is up for debate, but I'm fairly certain Iniesta will win it this year.

Reasons:
He was the best player of the historic Eurocup demolishing against Italy
He was already voted the best player "in Europe" halfway through the season, the half that counts, by the same people that will vote for the Ballon D'Or
No player this season has been dominant in both performance and titles (no one won the CL and the league)
There's a feeling amongst voters that it'd be unfair to never award a Spanish player the award in spite of their golden generation

Not even the best on his team imo.

He was voted by journalists for the BPE award, you'll be surprised how captains/coaches will change the landscape of the voting.

Iniesta "only" won the Euro, but other players won the Euro and the league... why should their names be less deserving?

The feeling amongst voters is that Ronaldo and Messi are far and away the biggest players on the planet. It'll be between them and them alone.

FFS I'd give it to Pirlo before Iniesta if we want to be fair and impartial about all this.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Whether he deserves it or not is up for debate, but I'm fairly certain Iniesta will win it this year.

How exactly is it up for debate? Because he was the best player of the one competition, which Messi didn't participate? He coasted in Barcelona last season, and has been coasting this season.

Iniesta winning an individual prize because of performance he put forth in the full season/ year, instead of Messi would make mockery of the prize.

There's a feeling amongst voters that it'd be unfair to never award a Spanish player the award in spite of their golden generation

And winning it more because of pity than the performance, is also laughable.

Clearly is should go to the player who was the most decisive in a trophy winning team. If the voting is fair it will go to Ronaldo.

His goals even carried Portugal to the semi's of the Euro so it's not like he only did it in one competition.

Zealous he was named the Player of the Tournament.

And yes non-European journalists and FIFA captains and managers didn't vote, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't in line with what the journalists voted. If anything I don't see them having a preference for anyone in particular.

It's not about who deserves it, it's about thinking through the voting process and trying to make an educated guess on who's likelier to get it. And to me everything points towards Iniesta.

Even if we followed your line of thought I doubt the Captain and Coach of all the national teams will see it the same way the journalists did in a different award. If that were the case Sneijder would have won it in 2010, who knows maybe the journalists will vote differently as well since the criteria for the Balon D'Or is different.

I really hope that the award goes to Iniesta because for me, he is the most enjoyable footballer to watch even though he dived against us in the world cup final. I agree with Jiopsi.

I'm not going to be sad if he wins it like that jibers character was because I think that the award really doesn't matter. Well that's with my heart, from and Impartial point of view I would say Messi desereves it more. Ronaldo should be second with Iniesta third. I would usually say Pirlo but he plays for a team that is corrupt from the boardroom to the ball boy.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
It's not about who deserves it, it's about thinking through the voting process and trying to make an educated guess on who's likelier to get it. And to me everything points towards Iniesta.

With what education did you guess that? Media vote is more biased towards trophies, and even then Iniesta won the "Europe" prize by 1 vote, a spanish vote. Now guess what happens when you add the 66% of the players/captains vote, who are more biased on performance, and the media vote from the whole world?

Iniesta won by two votes I think. Messi and Cris were tied.

I really think Ronaldo will win, if there is any feeling out there it's that Messi has probably "had enough" for now in terms of recognition while Cristiano probably deserves more.

Iniesta for all his brilliance will only be ever seen as a cog in the wheel. Just like most of the Spanish players, is that fair? Who knows but in Spain's case it's pretty obvious that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and that in the end hurts your chances in an individual award that also depends on input into trophies won and hype.

Cronaldo wasn't close to Messi individually, so him winning it also would feel more like a prize from pity.

Messi was better individually against Santos and Leverkusen lol

Messi was better in La Liga whole, in UCL whole, against top opposition whole, against everybody whole. Yeah Cronaldo excelled against somebody in one particular minute of his life.

jiopsi wrote:With what education did you guess that? Media vote is more biased towards trophies, and even then Iniesta won the "Europe" prize by 1 vote, a spanish vote.

Iniesta didn't have the Spanish vote lol. Anyways I'm not convinced that the player and managerial vote reward performance more than winning, but even if they did it's not like they would all vote for the same players. I'm expecting about the same division of votes we saw for the UEFA award.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

jiopsi wrote:With what education did you guess that? Media vote is more biased towards trophies, and even then Iniesta won the "Europe" prize by 1 vote, a spanish vote.

Iniesta didn't have the Spanish vote lol. Anyways I'm not convinced that the player and managerial vote reward performance more than winning, but even if they did it's not like they would all vote for the same players. I'm expecting about the same division of votes we saw for the UEFA award.

My bad, it was Marca's vote.

But I can tell you now, the UEFA award won't reflect how Ballon d'Or will pan out.

Messi had a better penalty miss than Cris, I'll give you that.

Ronaldo was better in La Liga, what sealed it was how he stepped up when we were leaking points and there was a strong feeling of a Barca comeback. I remember "The Evil are choking" thread

No way Messi was better against top competition, if anything they are tied in that aspect. Ronaldo has been huge for Madrid in every big game in 2012.

So yeah I'd agree with you if you switched "minute" with "season".

Anyway you're opinion is at best extremely subjective, stop trying to pass it off as objective info lol

Really?

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists: (transfermarkt.co.uk FIFA rules)

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:



http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Messi & Cronaldo Champions League 11-12

Goals:

Messi 14 (4 penalty)
Cronaldo 10 (2 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 4.5 shots/goal
Cronaldo 7.4 shots/goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 6/14 or 43% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 4/10 or 40% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists (transfermarkt.co.uk wider rules)

Messi 7
Cronaldo 3

Creativity

Messi 14 throughballs, 32 key passes (resulting a shot)
Cronaldo 3 throughballs, 25 key passes (resulting a shot)

Build Up Play

Messi 44 dribbles
Cronaldo 29 dribbles

Lost Possession

Messi 40 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 59
Cronaldo 20 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 39

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 8
Cronaldo 3

Importance of statistics: (without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals and assists)

1. Milan 14
2. Barcelona 10
3. Plzen 6
4. BATE 2

1. Real Madrid 16
2. Lyon 9
3. Ajax 8
4. Dinamo 0

Messi gave 6 points in 3 group games and would have lost 1st position. Would have lost against Milan.
Cronaldo gave 2 points in 1 group game. Would have lost against ZSKA.

Messi against top opposition 11-12

Real Madrid 3+5@6
Valencia 4+3@4
Malaga 6+0@2
Atletico Madrid 4+1@2
Milan 3+3@4
Leverkusen 6+1@2
Chelsea 0+1@2
Porto 1+1@1
Santos 2+0@1

Overall 29+15@24 against top opposition, 1.83 G+A per game.
Overall 73+35@60 against everyone, 1.80 G+A per game.

Cronaldo against top opposition 11-12

Barcelona 4+0@6
Valencia 1+0@2
Malaga 3+1@4
Atletico Madrid 5+2@2
Lyon 2+1@2
Ajax 1+1@1
Dynamo 0+0@1
ZSKA 3+0@2
Bayern Munich 2+1@2

Overall 21+6@22 against top opposition, 1.23 G+A per game.
Overall 60+15@55 against everyone, 1.36 G+A per game.

Messi was actually better against top opposition, Cronaldo unsurprisingly worse. The same applies pretty much in their careers, Cronaldo is a big game flop.

Players scoring their own penalties 11-12 shows the difference of quality of players and teams in general



- Higuain and Benzema were actually more effective than Cronaldo and were involved in 1.3x goals more than Cronaldo.
- Messi were carrying Barcelona, and were involved in 1.6x goals more than Xavi and Fabregas together, 1.48x more than Cronaldo.
- As a team Madrid were better, as a player Messi was far, far ahead of others. And Ballon d'Or is a invidual prize, not a team prize.

10-11 compared to 11-12

2010-2011
Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28 1.56 (G+A)/90min

> most definitely

Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer/ Top Assister, European Golden Boot/ Top Assister, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 or 1.86 (G+A)/90min and 82+41

> most definitely

Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min and 66+17

----------------------------------

Cronaldo actually was just as effective as last season, but Messi was better in last season, and even better this season.

2010-2011
Messi 1.56 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi 1.86 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2012 Stats



Every which way you look, you see Messi's superioirity.

Messi is better than Iniesta imo.

If Messi played for Spain or something, he probably would have won the Euro 2012 player of the tournament.

jiopsi and his stats

Its safe to say,, its been scientifically proven that Messi was better than CR7 last season.

Ronaldo could win it though, but I dont think he could call himself "the best player on the planet for the next year", can he ?

While your probably right i hope he doesn't he shouldn't even be in the top 10

jiopsi wrote:Really?

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists: (transfermarkt.co.uk FIFA rules)

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:



http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Messi & Cronaldo Champions League 11-12

Goals:

Messi 14 (4 penalty)
Cronaldo 10 (2 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 4.5 shots/goal
Cronaldo 7.4 shots/goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 6/14 or 43% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 4/10 or 40% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists (transfermarkt.co.uk wider rules)

Messi 7
Cronaldo 3

Creativity

Messi 14 throughballs, 32 key passes (resulting a shot)
Cronaldo 3 throughballs, 25 key passes (resulting a shot)

Build Up Play

Messi 44 dribbles
Cronaldo 29 dribbles

Lost Possession

Messi 40 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 59
Cronaldo 20 dispossessed + 19 turnovers = 39

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 8
Cronaldo 3

Importance of statistics: (without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals and assists)

1. Milan 14
2. Barcelona 10
3. Plzen 6
4. BATE 2

1. Real Madrid 16
2. Lyon 9
3. Ajax 8
4. Dinamo 0

Messi gave 6 points in 3 group games and would have lost 1st position. Would have lost against Milan.
Cronaldo gave 2 points in 1 group game. Would have lost against ZSKA.

Messi against top opposition 11-12

Real Madrid 3+5@6
Valencia 4+3@4
Malaga 6+0@2
Atletico Madrid 4+1@2
Milan 3+3@4
Leverkusen 6+1@2
Chelsea 0+1@2
Porto 1+1@1
Santos 2+0@1

Overall 29+15@24 against top opposition, 1.83 G+A per game.
Overall 73+35@60 against everyone, 1.80 G+A per game.

Cronaldo against top opposition 11-12

Barcelona 4+0@6
Valencia 1+0@2
Malaga 3+1@4
Atletico Madrid 5+2@2
Lyon 2+1@2
Ajax 1+1@1
Dynamo 0+0@1
ZSKA 3+0@2
Bayern Munich 2+1@2

Overall 21+6@22 against top opposition, 1.23 G+A per game.
Overall 60+15@55 against everyone, 1.36 G+A per game.

Messi was actually better against top opposition, Cronaldo unsurprisingly worse. The same applies pretty much in their careers, Cronaldo is a big game flop.

Players scoring their own penalties 11-12 shows the difference of quality of players and teams in general



- Higuain and Benzema were actually more effective than Cronaldo and were involved in 1.3x goals more than Cronaldo.
- Messi were carrying Barcelona, and were involved in 1.6x goals more than Xavi and Fabregas together, 1.48x more than Cronaldo.
- As a team Madrid were better, as a player Messi was far, far ahead of others. And Ballon d'Or is a invidual prize, not a team prize.

10-11 compared to 11-12

2010-2011
Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28 1.56 (G+A)/90min

> most definitely

Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer/ Top Assister, European Golden Boot/ Top Assister, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 or 1.86 (G+A)/90min and 82+41

> most definitely

Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 or 1.38 (G+A)/90min and 66+17

----------------------------------

Cronaldo actually was just as effective as last season, but Messi was better in last season, and even better this season.

2010-2011
Messi 1.56 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2011-2012
Messi 1.86 (G+A)/90min
Cronaldo 1.38 (G+A)/90min

2012 Stats



Every which way you look, you see Messi's superioirity.

I should copy this for future arguments

I seriously wonder why people bring up that "here is Barcelona's/Madrid's position in the league without Messi/Ronaldo goal".

Quite a stupid argument to bring up, considering Barca are far more dependent on Messi than Madrid is on Ronaldo. Plus Messi imo is more ball dominant(although Ronaldo is more shot happy) than Ronaldo.

These things balance each other out. Silly point there imo.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:While your probably right i hope he doesn't he shouldn't even be in the top 10

I want Iniesta to win it but I admit that Messi deserves it before him, but him not being in the top 10 is just

Is it really?

It's an individual award for individual exploits or at least it's suppose to be.....

Messi, CR, Pirlo. Falcao, Ibra, Ozil, Van Persie, Xavi, Aguero and Benzema had a better 2012 as an individual.

Hell there's players like Silva who are not even nominated who had a better 2012.

Also BC he wasn't the best player in the final not even close and who gives a shit if the generation is not not awarded.

It's an individual award for the best individual of 2012 and Iniesta should not even be close to winning it.

The Portugal international angered Mallorca fans by cupping his hand to his ear after scoring, and Caparros was not impressed by the former Manchester United star's behaviour.

"Cristiano Ronaldo has it all as a footballer, but he must show a lot more humility and a lot more ambition in other areas," Caparros said to Punto Pelota.

"His statistics are proof of what he can do, but he throws it all away with his behaviour.

"It would not surprise me if he doesn't win the Ballon d'Or. It's not just about footballing qualities, but a sum of a number of values. It's the sum of a lot of things on and off the pitch."

Zealous wrote:Clearly is should go to the player who was the most decisive in a trophy winning team. If the voting is fair it will go to Ronaldo.

His goals even carried Portugal to the semi's of the Euro so it's not like he only did it in one competition.

Why should the team he was in have to do with anything? It's about the individual no? Just because Real Madrid was better in La Liga last season, along with much referee assistance, which won them win La Liga, doesn't make CRonaldo a more worthy winner.

His 'goals' didn't carry portugal to the semis. Portugal progressed in spite of CRonaldo flopping most of the games.

There are two decisive tap ins he scored, one against Czech Republic one in Clasico, that doesn't turn the Balon d'Or, even if you'd like it to Z