Re: Barcelona fielding 11 players ALL from their youth ranks

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:04 pm

zizzle wrote:no one is trying to belittle the accomplishments of Barca's academy, i for one wish that every team out there would follow this model and im glad Inter is going in that direction, even if it means a few dry years.

You mentioned Messi being rejected by two clubs, but lets not forget his medical condition, Ronaldo was rejected by Flamengo because they didnt feel he's worth the bus fees that he couldnt afford. He made it anyway.

If Barca's success is to be solely attributed to the work they do in the academy then any model they'd follow would produce the same results, and assuming Messi and Iniesta didnt fit in that model i simply dont see it possible.

Anyway, Barca deserve all the credit for what they achieved with their home grown players, after all they had the right forumla. Sure it helps to teach tactical concepts to 7 year olds, but not every 7 year old cant be turned into Messi, you have to find the right boy first. Unless you believe that talent is secondary to practice and that's a different debate.

Yeah Messi was rejected because of his condition. But it's not because they weren't able to afford it, it's because they assessed his future and decided he wasn't worth the risk/return they were getting into. Every professional club can afford to pay the 3000 dollars a year or however much the treatment cost.

In any case I disagree that the system could be copied. The Barca youth project started primarily with Cruyff (some important steps were taken before then but it was with Cruyff that the style, way to challenge youth teamers, and other important infrastructure was set up) that it first become a priority. It didn't fully pay off until nearly 20 years later. You can argue that it can be copied, and sure a lot of money can have a fantastic youth set-up, but they won't have any results until at least a decade from now. Not every owner is willing to spend so much money into a long-term project, and I'm proud that Barca have.

Also juventus101 I guess piggy is a rosenheim youth product then? Rolling Eyes

by Lex Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote: Every professional club can afford to pay the 3000 dollars a year or however much the treatment cost

I'll see your $3000 and raise you one Portsmouth Football Club

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:28 pm

Neither River nor Newell's were on the brink of bankruptcy Wink

by jibers Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:30 pm

Lex wrote:
danyjr wrote: Most teams wish they could play like Barça or Spain
oh brother

You are deluded of you think that. They are the flavour of the month. Once people realise how dull possession catenaccio is they will stop.

by The Sanchez Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:26 pm

Haters will always hate. Barca have the best youth academy in the world that produce some of the finest young players around. End of Story. :coffee:

by barca 2011 Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:09 am

The Sanchez wrote:Haters will always hate. Barca have the best youth academy in the world that produce some of the finest young players around. End of Story.

Straight up. And because Barca is much likelier to bring up a player who rose through the academy rather than (in many cases unnecessarily) spend 30-40 mil. on a player from any other club, said haters will come up with a way to discredit the fact.

by Lex Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:39 am

Uh huh. That's why Barca pulled a top defender out of La Masia instead of, say, wasting £21 million on a certain Ukrainian centre back who flopped worse than New Coke Laughing

by The Franchise Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:06 am

Come on Lex, its not that simple...you should know that.

Arsenal have an excellent youth system and yet, still no defenders either. Finding them is very hard.

Why do you think we spent so much money on a unknown? Because he didnt have anyone better.

However, now we do, in Bartra.

I dont think anyone is saying we never spend alot of money on players, I think all anyone said is we dont always have to, especially not simple role players.

Madrid as an example, they spent 30m on a back up leftback...we brought in Montoya as back up rightback. Not much difference in their performances at all.

Madrid bought Modric for 40m, just because they loaned out Sahin basically. We brought in Thiago, before that Dos Santos.

Its not going to happen every time, but I dont get the negative comments at all. I dont really see anyone going too far in their comments.

by Bellabong Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:16 am

I'm gonna pull an Idri here and say both clubs policies suck since they're both in debt and bring up arguably the best run club in the world. Half the Bayern starters are academy graduates, Bayern also spends 40,000,000€ on depth signings and yet still makes a profit.

Best of both worlds banana

by harhar11 Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:52 am

jibers wrote:
Lex wrote:
danyjr wrote: Most teams wish they could play like Barça or Spain
oh brother

You are deluded of you think that. They are the flavour of the month. Once people realise how dull possession catenaccio is they will stop.

Once people realise that its the catenaccio they use against Barca and Spain that makes the game boring they will start wanting to play like Barca..

--

And as BarrileteCosmico said, we have not spend 20m in la masia. Its 10m in la masia and another 10 in a professional football team, our b team.

And just a question are you guys sure that barca have been paying 10 every year since 2001? I mean they build a new home for the youth players the last year. Wouldnt the payment go into la masia as well, making the money they put into la masia higher?

by billy_gr Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:15 am

La masia has been working marvelously. What bogles the mind is that having so many positions covered by academy players, giving us the luxury of selective transfers plus having a generous transfer budget, we end up spending ~20m for the likes of Song

by eelir Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:34 am

Exactly billy_gr, the success of la masia should not be mixed with our almost total failure in the transfer market. Just imagine where we would be if we had avarage youth academy with the success of our signings!

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:35 am

by jibers Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:41 am

eelir wrote:Exactly billy_gr, the success of la masia should not be mixed with our almost total failure in the transfer market. Just imagine where we would be if we had avarage youth academy with the success of our signings!

Okay, I suppose Ronaldinjo was from L masia, o wait, what about Romario and Laudrup...o wait, no come even Kubala...no wait...What about Ibra and the 60 mill.....

Pls go

by eelir Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:46 am

jibers wrote:
eelir wrote:Exactly billy_gr, the success of la masia should not be mixed with our almost total failure in the transfer market. Just imagine where we would be if we had avarage youth academy with the success of our signings!

Okay, I suppose Ronaldinjo was from L masia, o wait, what about Romario and Laudrup...o wait, no come even Kubala...no wait...What about Ibra and the 60 mill.....

Pls go

Can you read? You mentioning Ibra in this context just shows that you have no idea what i wrote. Lately we have been shit at signing, and everyone is saying that. When you want to discredit la masia you mention Ibra, Sanchez, Song etc. saying it is the same as buying. I am just saying, our signings has cost us, but not la masia.

by billy_gr Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:51 am

I don’t know where you are trying to say exactly.
Nobody said we are Bilbao or anything and of course part of our success throughout the years has to do with some really successful signings. However it’s not a coincidence that Barca’s most successful era is the one with most homegrowns in the starting 11.

I don’t think any barca fan here discredits signed stars contribution to the club, but using this to belittle la massia’s importance is flawed

by jibers Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:53 am

Nope its due to MEssi, Iniesta and Xavi. Messi is a once in half a century freak. Take him out of your tyeam and you guys lose over 3/4of your effectiveness.

by billy_gr Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:55 am

ok dude. barca=messi. let's leave it at that and we're all happy.

by eelir Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am

Yeah jibers, its not like other teams have won the world or european cup depending on Xavi and Iniesta and some other Masia graduates.

The buthurt is strong with this one.

by jibers Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:58 am

LOL Guys I'm kidding. Calm down. It's a great achievment to be honest. But We've already seen this with Ajax and Bayern have a similar policy and are in better shape so I dont really think its that big a deal. United have produced the best talent as well, Cleverley, Welbeck etc both could start for any team... so yea...

by billy_gr Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:14 am

I kinda feel sad for Ajax. Used to be one of my favorite teams in the early 90’s.
Now all they seem to do is develop talent and sell it.
As for Bayern, can anyone estimate the number of homegrown in their starting 11?

by jibers Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:27 am

billy_gr wrote:I kinda feel sad for Ajax. Used to be one of my favorite teams in the early 90’s.
Now all they seem to do is develop talent and sell it.
As for Bayern, can anyone estimate the number of homegrown in their starting 11?

Kroos, Basti, Muller, Alaba, Lahm, Badstuber/11

by billy_gr Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:41 am

not bad... pirat

by jibers Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:49 am

billy_gr wrote:not bad...

Yea. ATM the only young home grown players we have are Cleverley and Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans, Scholes are still there so not to bad I suppose. City have....

Chelsea have....

Arsenal have Gibbs and Wilshere.

Madrid have Iker, Higgy and Marcelo (they are homegrown according to UEFA)

by eelir Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:55 am

jibers wrote:

Madrid have Iker, Higgy and Marcelo (they are homegrown according to UEFA)

Yeah right! Wink, wink...

by danyjr Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:52 pm

Higuaín homegrown? Bitch, please! I can't speak for Marcelo but everyone, I mean EVERYONE knew about Pipita in Argentina before he left River for Madrid. He was already a huge talent.

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